Dead Bodybuilders: An Autopsy Report

[bluethunder90]

@drbarney1

Both steroid abuse and couch potato disease kill you so it is best to have nothing to do with either

100%

[bluethunder90]

@blshaw

How many dead under 50 guys have died from couch potato disease? I bet a lot more.

That’s a red herring. The article clearly states that none of this is conclusive, and I would guess that TC wrote this article not to prove anything, but to get people to think and question.

Whether or not it is due to steroid abuse or something else, it is clear that there is a problem, and it would behoove us to find out the cause of these guy’s deaths. It would also behoove anyone currently using steroids or even considering using steroids to pause until there is some certainty about what is causing these deaths.

It’s the old poison M&M analogy; if I gave you a bowl of M&Ms but I told you one of them was poisoned and would kill you, would you take the risk and eat anything from that bowl?

[bluethunder90]

I find it really interesting that T-Nation censored this comment. It makes it seem like T-Nation is reading from the same playbook as big tech and big media. Very interesting…

@phiroc

athletes all over the world have died or suffered cardiac arrest in 2022

The difference here is that all of the bodybuilders used in the study referenced in the article would have died pre-covid. The COVID-19 vaccines were rolled out in December 2020, and the study, which started in February 2022, according to the article, was on bodybuilders who’d died over the previous 12 years.
In order for any of these deaths to have been related to the vaccine, they would have all had to occur in the 14 months between December 2020 and February 2022.

[Andrew_Heffernan]

Probably close.

These days it’s a foregone conclusion that bodybuilding is often antithetical to health. That still bowls me over.

[TC_Luoma]

@bluethunder90

In order for any of these deaths to have been related to the vaccine, they would have all had to occur in the 14 months between December 2020 and February 2022.

That’s an excellent point.

[RT_Nomad]

@Andrew_Heffernan

These days it’s a foregone conclusion that bodybuilding is often antithetical to health

“These days” for me was November 1970; the first contest I entered.

[bluethunder90]

@TC_Luoma

I can tell you there is no credible evidence that these elegant mRNA vaccines caused any more deaths than any other vaccine that’s been in use for a hundred years.

I think the jury is still out on that one. There are too many oddities that the media is working too hard trying to distract me from and trying to ignore, (“just ignore the man behind the curtain!!) for me not to at least sit up and pay attention to it.

A lot of what is being discussed out there sounds like conspiracy theory, but I have noticed over the last few years that many of the social, political, and media issues that conspiracy theorists have been ridiculed for years over have turned out to be true. Enough so that it makes me wonder about this as well. I may not be fully bought in, but I’m paying attention.

[bluethunder90]

@phiroc

Thanks for flagging me about my information, that alone speaks volume

It certainly does. We see this exact same thing playing out in a lot of other places in our society, and once you start connecting the dots…

[bluethunder90]

The T-Nation algorithms are working hard to keep your post from being seen. It makes me think about the discussions about AI that were being discussed at Davos last week.

I wonder if mentioning that will bring me to the attention of the algorithms…

[TC_Luoma]

@bluethunder90

A lot of what is being discussed out there sounds like conspiracy theory, but I have noticed over the last few years that many of the social, political, and media issues that conspiracy theorists have been ridiculed for years over have turned out to be true.

Here’s the trouble I always have with conspiracy theories: Three men can keep a secret, if two of them are dead." – Ben Franklin, I believe.

[Chris_Shugart]

No algorithms here, guys. I think one of our mods just worried that the C-word topic was derailing the discussion of the article itself. Feel free to discuss that in Politics & World Issues. Should be restored now @phiroc and @bluethunder90.

[blshaw]

@bluethunder90

The article clearly states that none of this is conclusive, and I would guess that TC wrote this article not to prove anything, but to get people to think and question.

I thought thats what we were doing?

@bluethunder90

Whether or not it is due to steroid abuse or something else, it is clear that there is a problem, and it would behoove us to find out the cause of these guy’s deaths.

Not really. We are talking about 50 guys out of 160million.

@bluethunder90

It’s the old poison M&M analogy; if I gave you a bowl of M&Ms but I told you one of them was poisoned and would kill you, would you take the risk and eat anything from that bowl?

This is way more of a red herring than anything I’ve written thus far. Why? Steroids don’t kill you. Not immediately and not even in the near future just themselves. Thats why I was making a comparison. I could list dozens of things more likely to kill you that you likely do every day.

[blshaw]

Here is a interesting study from 2018, Journal of Intenral Medicine. They had a decent amount of subjects and controls which is rare for this venue.

For the study, 545 men who used androgenic anabolic steroids were matched with 5,450 controls. In addition, 644 men who were sanctioned because they refused to submit to a doping test and 6440 controls were included as a replication cohort.

Over an average follow-up of 7.4 years, there were seven (1.3 percent) deaths among users of androgenic anabolic steroids and 23 (0.4 percent) among participants in the control group, translating to a three-times higher risk of death associated with androgenic anabolic steroids. The median annual number of hospital contacts was 0.81 in the androgenic anabolic steroid users and 0.36 in the controls. Acne, gynaecomastia, and erectile dysfunction affected more than 10 percent of the androgenic anabolic steroid users, and the prevalence of these disorders was significantly higher than in the control group. Similar results were seen in the replication cohort.

“This study has shown that anabolic steroids are associated with a range of side effects that can be directly attributed to their pharmacological activities,” said lead author Dr. Henrik Horwitz, of the University of Copenhagen, in Denmark.

[bluethunder90]

@blshaw

Steroids don’t kill you. Not immediately and not even in the near future just themselves.

And we’re certain about this? Enough so that we’d be willing to eat from that bowl?

[blshaw]

Yes, without going to the farthest extremes of abuse. I’m about as certain as one can be without talking in true absolutes. Why? I;ve researched this for almost a decade and have real user experience, medical follow ups on myself and others, etc etc.

[bluethunder90]

@blshaw

Over an average follow-up of 7.4 years, there were seven (1.3 percent) deaths among users of androgenic anabolic steroids and 23 (0.4 percent) among participants in the control group, translating to a three-times higher risk of death associated with androgenic anabolic steroids.

That seems to contradict your statement; “steroids don’t kill you. Not immediately and not even in the near future just themselves”

[bluethunder90]

Then you are a braver man than I.

[blshaw]

How so? You’re taking about .9% more men died on steroids in 7 years. Its so fractional that these guys, already taking part in illegal drugs, could have been taking more than steroids. I would bet they were. I don’t consider 7 years even close to immediate or near future visavis a poison pill.

You keep replying to me with no substance. What is your counter argument to keep this productive?

I’ve stated:

1. Steroids are not as bad for you as the media makes them out to be. Statistically the original article and my subsequent post proves this.
2. I’ve stated, to further validate above, that typical other activities in normal lifestyle are more likely to kill you. I can post statistical links but you’ve not even countered other than to state ‘red herring’
3. I’ve stated myself proclaimed expertise, which doesn’t mean shit, but at least offered where I am coming from as a background.

Do you have anything to add other than M&Ms?

[phiroc]

Maybe so but his argument is that he is a microbiologist and therefore knows the vaccine is perfectly safe as any others. Doug Brignole bragged about his vaccine shit and also thought it was perfectly safe as he claimed he researched it and look where he got him as he is dead now blaming it in Covid. Ultimately what most people fail to point out is that the Covid vaccine is not a conventional vaccine but a gene therapy that activates spike proteins indefinitely without shut off valve which comprises the immune system as a result of the autoimmune disorder. This is why vaccinated people will continue to get infected with Covid even the latest booster won’t help as you cannot catch up to the speed at which the variants mutate. In the meatless vaccinated people have a compromised immune system that will no longer protect them even from the common cold never mind the flu.

[fitafter40]

steroids is not the poison…its the dosage, imho