Dbossa, Interviews About AIs?

Pharma TRT
206

I disagree, well mostly.
While this may hinge on what is meant by control, influencing anothers opinon is 100% possible. It also works in increments. getting someone to review their beliefs on any topic isn’t easy, people get tied up in what they already think they know and fight tooth and nail to not admit they may be wrong. They can’t handle to cognitive dissonance, getting someone to change their mind about anything even in the face of overwhelming evidence is really hard.

Once something is categorized in one’s head, moving it to another box isn’t easy, and you have to want to and most people just want to move on to the next thing with no reflection or skepticism and don’t even care if they’re right.

Being loud and repeating the central points your trying to get across is one way to try to persuade people to adjust their beliefs, and it can be effective.

I think I’m rambling now, sorry.

207

It took three years for someone to convince me to stop taking an AI. I argued tooth and nail that if I stopped I’d get worse. Three years of arguing. They finally convinced me and, low and behold, they were right and I was wrong. So here I am doing the same damn thing they did to me. I’m doing it because it’s been demonstrated to be correct more times that I could count. I just can’t deny the mountain of evidence I’ve seen at this point. Just in my own Facebook group there are a few posts a day of “I stopped taking the AI and I finally feel better”… literally every day. Emails I get on a daily basis saying the same. It’s just too much to deny at this point.

208

By the way, I’ll be doing a more in depth dive with Dr. Jordan Grant on AI use and estrogen in the coming weeks. Just finding the time as he is frequently on call.

209

How about addressing the known side effects. You talk about not feeling well on an AI as related to libido and ED, but there is a long list of side effects that many people may not be aware of. I think the list alone would scare people away from using them.

Side Effects

Along with its needed effects, a medicine may cause some unwanted effects. Although not all of these side effects may occur, if they do occur they may need medical attention.

More common

· Blurred vision
· bone pain
· chest pain or discomfort
· dizziness
· headache
· nervousness
· pounding in the ears
· slow or fast heartbeat
· swelling of the feet or lower legs

Less common
· Arm, back, or jaw pain
· chest tightness or heaviness
· chills
· cough
· cough producing mucus - YES
· difficult or painful urination - YES
· difficulty breathing
· dizziness, severe
· fever
· headache, continuing
· hoarseness
· increased blood pressure
· lower back or side pain
· nausea
· pain, tenderness, bluish color, or swelling of the foot or leg
· sore throat
· sweating
· unusual drowsiness, dullness, tiredness, weakness, or feeling of sluggishness

Incidence not known

· Blistering, peeling, or loosening of the skin
· confusion
· constipation
· dark urine
· depression
· diarrhea
· difficulty swallowing
· dry mouth
· general tiredness and weakness
· hives or welts, itching, skin rash
· incoherent speech
· increased urination
· joint or muscle pain
· large, hive-like swelling on the face, eyelids, lips, tongue, throat, hands, legs, feet, or genitals
· light-colored stools
· loss of appetite
· metallic taste
· muscle weakness
· puffiness or swelling of the eyelids or around the eyes, face, lips, or tongue
· red skin lesions, often with a purple center
· red, irritated eyes - YES
· sores, ulcers, or white spots in the mouth or on the lips
· stomach pain
· thirst
· upper right abdominal pain
· vomiting
· weight loss
· yellow eyes and skin

Some side effects may occur that usually do not need medical attention. These side effects may go away during treatment as your body adjusts to the medicine. Also, your health care professional may be able to tell you about ways to prevent or reduce some of these side effects. Check with your health care professional if any of the following side effects continue or are bothersome or if you have any questions about them:

More common

· Back pain
· belching
· body aches or pain
· congestion -YES
· decrease in height
· feeling of warmth
· flushing or redness of the skin, especially on the face and neck
· heartburn
· increased appetite
· indigestion
· lack or loss of strength
· mood or mental changes - YES
· pain in the back, ribs, arms, or legs
· pain, general
· pelvic pain
· runny nose - YES
· stomach discomfort or upset
· tender, swollen glands in the neck
· trouble in swallowing
· voice changes

Less common

· Anxiety
· breast pain
· dryness of the vagina
· general feeling of discomfort or illness
· joint stiffness
· loss of hair
· numbness or tingling of the hands or feet - Yes
· shivering
· sleepiness
· trouble sleeping
· weight gain

Incidence not known

· Difficulty in moving
· muscle cramps or stiffness
· swollen joints

Other side effects not listed may also occur in some patients. If you notice any other effects, check with your healthcare professional.

210

Dude,

Those are side effects that may occur on a breast cancer dose of 1mg per day.

I don’t know about you, by my vagina isn’t dry.

1 Like
211

image
image640×548 71.8 KB

I get what you are saying, but notice what my quack told me to do. Also, I was having some of those sides at 1/4 mg eod. The stuff is powerful.

212

Maybe your doctor thought that you had breast cancer. I’ve heard that it’s pretty common for doctors to confuse breast cancer and hypogonadism.

And fwiw, 1 milligram per day can’t really be that bad, can it?
:crazy_face:

213

I’ve heard it makes your vag dry

214

Something on the estrogen/AI topic:

215

This should be for trial…

216

Hey! Guess what guys!? Here’s ANOTHER DOCTOR that does not manage estrogen. How about that? He’ll prescribe estradiol to men who don’t make enough!

Queued up to the relevant bit:

2 Likes
217

Dbossa, what do these Dr. do when a patient is an outlier, as we seem to be calling people that suffer when E2 is high? I understand that you and your group will look for something other than E2 initially, my question isn’t about that. But specifically, when all is said and done and high E2 is indicated, what then?

Have you seen any men that do not do well without an AI? What is the advice given in these cases? Or are they just referred on, being patients that don’t fit the groups narrative?

No offense intended.

218

In virtually every single case, they are blaming it on the high E2. In virtually every single case it was something else having nothing to do with it. If you stare at that number and say, “That’s the problem” you will immediately become completely oblivious to everything else that is going on.

Today I interviewed Joe Jeffery from the UK about growth hormone. He also has no idea why anyone would want to block estrogen in any capacity as he said men have no understanding that the estrogen itself has a huge impact on anabolism, bone mineral density, and a ton of other things (video will be posted in a few days).

I have yet to encounter a SINGLE guy where I said, “I give up. You need an AI”… and I don’t speak to even a fraction of the number of men these doctors are dealing with. NONE of them are blocking E2 because they are experienced enough to figure out what the actual cause of the issues are.

When I see this during my day to day life, and speak to as many physicians as I do, for someone to come around to see, “Well, I’m different. I actually NEED an AI.” all I think about is all the other times men have claimed the same and it wasn’t that. Once you understand this stuff, it gets old lol

219

Aromatase excess syndrome… these people actually do need aromatase inhibitors or even treatment with non aromatising androgens

220

It must be a pretty rare syndrome.

221

Some quick googling seems to say only a handful of people in the world have it. I didn’t spend a lot of time looking but yeah, seems super rare

222

I remember a case of a man in Canada where his wife reported his estrogen was over 400, the endo refused to do anything about it. The guy was so embarrassed his wife was the one asking the questions, the guy had manboobs after starting TRT.

I have the opposite reaction after starting TRT, chest gets flatter. Clearly this guy had a hormonal imbalance. I don’t see very many cases like these anywhere, well at least not to this degree.

223

Not true, there are a handful of CASE REPORTS that exist regarding the syndrome… but the prevalence of the syndrome is unknown (far higher than that though)…

Another instance in which an AI may be needed would be klinefelters syndrome (that or mammary gland removal)

2 Likes
224

Some crazy rare syndrome or aromatase disorder. The problem is virtually every single guy thinks they are ‘that guy who needs it because of xyz’ when virtually every single guy just isn’t.

When I realize how rare it actually is, and hear everyone insisting they ‘over aromatize’, I just think to myself, “No, you’re not that special” :wink:

225

Yes, they’re all quite rare… even klinefelters, the occurrence is like… 1 in 500-1,000 men… and they probably wouldn’t be coming here as they have NO problem getting on TRT… testosterone production within these men is typically abysmal (say sub 100ng/dl much of the time), they don’t goo through puberty adequately either, so as a child whilst getting a physical/checked out… they’ll typically find out then provided they don’ undergo karyotype testing as a baby