Second cycle. Dbol 30mg ED and test e at around 600Mg per week. First cycle was test e only at 525 a week.
Was thinking about going 12 weeks in full but have the first 4-6 w the dbol at the 30 mg dose.
Now do I use my ai only if I see sides and need it or do I use it right from the get go? Thanks
I will die a happy man if I can everyone to stop doing these meaningless dbol kickstarts.
Just use more testosterone if you want the first four weeks to be more water and glycogen. It’s not liver toxic and it’s easier to dial in your AI. Because look, dbol is pretty much the same effect as test but with trickier methyl estradiol and liver toxicity. Not a single gram of the extra weight you put on in those four weeks will be muscle, so why not just use something easier, cheaper, and healthier?
And your cycle length of 12 weeks is pretty much the minimum. It makes more sense to push it to 16 weeks and really get the maximum return for your risk, which is functionally the same irrespective of 12 or 16 (or even 20) weeks.
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Well my first cycle was test only. I got great size and responded super well to 525 mgs only!! I just wanted to add something to give me that wow effect. I’m stepping on stage in 2022 so obviously I’m going for that wow effect.
Yea, 30mg of dbol now for 6 weeks isnt giving you any effect next year on stage, lol… as soon as you drop it, you piss out the water and there goes your bloat effect(or wow effect as you call it for some reason).
Ok so you would rather just stick to another test only cycle? If dbol didn’t work then why would pros take it?? If it’s all “just water” then there would be no reason for ppl like Arnold to take it. And isn’t it one of his fav compounds lol
Don’t type like a clown.
How old are you? Born 2002?
If you got good results of it, yes - why not repeat it?
No no, dbol works. And it works excellent. Its just that the “kickstart” idea is pointless. It is a good drug and you either use it or you dont. It just like kickstarting a cutting cycle with anavar for 2-3 weeks at the start and then dropping it. Why?
Reason for Arnold was that it was a legal drug and could be bought in a pharmacy. In Soviet Union, where i am from, dbol was also legal in 70s and 80s, so almost everyone were cycling on just dbol. And when i was a kid, we also started with dbol only even tho it wasnt legal for a long time anymore, its just that the “old guys” said that its a good cycle.
Arnold took it much more that 30mg a day and he mostly took it cuz it was one of the things that WAS there at all, and it also was legal. I dont think they even knew tren or something like that.
Its not ALL water, its just that its hard on the liver, it bloats a lot, so it will spike your BP, it can cause shitty skin and at the end - is it better than just test? Idk. I have good childhood memories about it but i havent taken it for 10 years because somehow im not sure that it does anything more than test would do.
The advanced oldshool cycle was deca+dbol. We didnt have test. That made sence. But if you can do test and deca, idk if there is a point of dbol.
Anyways, im not an expert on dbol, im just saying that im not sure if it will make or break you.
Either way, “kickstarting” it is a BS idea. Either take it or dont. You can run 500mg test and 30mg dbol a day for 8-12 weeks and then just let us know - if you think it does anything more than your first cycle did. Dont up the test or you wont know if the difference is in the test or dbol.
If you dont like it, you can always drop it and it will be out of your system.
My main problem was that you wanted to kickstart a cycle for an effect that should be there next year. 4 weeks of dbol wont give you much. Also take into consideration that for the stage you will be cutting and losing water.
4 weeks of dbol wont do much for your next years competition after a cut and water depletion.
I would argue that dbol is best for powerlifting.
Most of them don’t. They don’t even mess with orals until they’re pretty close to getting on stage, and when that time comes it’s almost exclusively winstrol.
Because testosterone was not nearly as popular at the time. Dbol, deca, and primo were all widely available and the bodybuilding world was a small one. If Arnold used that stack then everyone else did too. There was no internet, there were no clinical trials you could easily access. It was a world based on mimicry. And FYI dbol works incredibly well if you use it the way those guys did, i.e. low dose for the entirety of your cycle. We know now that it isn’t a healthy approach.
Ohh ok I understand what you mean. And sorry if I was “typing like a clown” as someone above said, that was not what I was trying to do. I was just curious because I hear almost everyone say it’s water and I got to thinking why would pros want to use it, if it takes away that classic look. hankthetank89 would you just do another test e only cycle if you were me then??
Knowing what i know now, i would repeat what works until it doesnt anymore. Its in our interest to get everything out of the lowest dose and least variety of everything. Same is with training - if you add 2 sets a week every month you will be out of possible volume in a year. We can always up the drugs or add one more but its rare when we can lower the dose and still progress. Once you add, that is your new baseline. Dont stretch it too fast.
That’s what I am doing. The bonus is I found out I handle the high Test well, so I am just sticking with it (875 mg/wk).
I think if new to this stuff, and wanting to do an oral, Anavar or Tbol make a lot more sense. No dealing with E2 aside from the Test, less androgenic. Gains are smaller, but easier to keep. This blast I am doing Tbol in the first and last 4 weeks.
Ok I get what you’re saying. So how much higher would one go for another test cycle? I was at 525. Would I stay at that or go up to 700? 600? Etc
I would stay at the 500 mark. I don’t think upping it would give proportionate more gains. Its diminished returns - if 500 gives you 1, then a 1000 wont give 2, but 1,3 benefit, but double the sides.
I would do 500 at least 2 more times and then you can either try 750 or add low dose of something else. But if 1 cycle was good, then the second will also, and the third will also work enough.
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Oh ok, because I blew up on 500 like my delts blew up, and just everything just grew. So I’ll just stick w another 500 mg cycle
I haven’t found this to be true. I haven’t actually tried 500 and 1000, but I have tried 325, 650 and 875 (currently). I see no difference in sides other than water weight on the current dose.
Dose response curves would make me think the difference in muscle between 500 and 1000 would be closer to 1.5 the gains. I am sure there is some individual aspect to it though. Another thing to keep in mind is that when eating in a surplus, that extra 0.5 increase in gains is now muscle instead of fat, so the overall look when the water drops might be fairly noticeable.
then why change? just repeat this again if it worked so well
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I had one more question list out of curiosity and to just know. So most of us cycle. But for the ppl that blast and cruise. When they jump into the blast phase does it still take them 4-5 weeks for the test to kick in? If that makes sense. Because for people who cycle it takes 4 weeks to feel the test. But if you were cruising and then got on blast would it still take that while four week?
I wouldnt say that. Most of “us” are on TRT and thats its. Some of people on TRT also sometimes blast.
It is more and more rare to see a person who actually cycles, as it is IN MY OPINION, a dead thing nowdays.
Skyrocketing your hormones, then crashing them into the ground and swallowing pills to slowly and painfully get you natural test back, and by the time you have it back, 70% of the gains are gone. And the natty test also cant maintain the cycle size that was gained, so that slowly fades away.
Thing is that if you take a lil longer break after a cycle, even if you recover fully, you will come back exactly where you were. You have to be either under-trained before you first cycle, or a genetic freak to be able to keep ANYTHING you gained on a cycle, lets say - 6-9 months after you got off.
BnC works like 2 steps forward and 1 step back, but by repeating these steps you have a chance to progress… Cycling works like 2 steps forward, 2 steps back unless you prolong your cycles and shorten the time off.
There was this oldschool theory of doing short cycles like 4 on and 4 off, which were based on an idea that you wont lose ALL your gains ir 4 weeks, like you would in 12 weeks. So you basically hit and run.
Anyways, i believe cycling to be unhealthy physically and mentally as it fucks with your body with all the ups and downs and also ruins you in the head.
I wouldnt say that it EVER takes weeks for anything to kick in. Half life of test is 5 days, So if you take 1ml shot twice a week(500mg a wk) by the time you inject the third injection, the first one is already mostly done.
My current blast is 200mg test E and 100mg tren E a wk. My strenght increased by 10% after exactly 4 days. And my BP got all shitty at day 7.
I have no idea where this idea of “kicking in” comes from, as steroids originally were made for hospital use and they need shit to work, not to work in 4 weeks. Yes, the test wont be at full power after 1st injection, because the levels have to rise, but the levels are already dropping at day 5 if not maintained by the next dose.
Maybe people think that water retention is what “kicks in” as side effects just pile up, E2 gets higher and you bloat more, which many mistake for muscle growth at first.
I mean - a normal “cycle” sometimes is only 8 weeks. What good is it if it only starts working at week 4? What happens to all the grams of shit in the first weeks?
In fact, when i used to cycle some good 10-12 years ago, i noticed that i got the most out of stuff in like first 4-6 weeks and never did longer than 8 as i just didnt seem to be gaining much after that. Thats when i found the 4on 4off plan with short esters.
Gotcha. Now I’m switching test e brands because I got ahold of pharma grade. Originally mine was 250mg per 1 ml. And I pin EOD. So I was going up to the .6 mark to get 525mg per week. Now the new test is 300mg per 1 ml. I wouldn’t go to the .6 anymore correct? Since it’s more per ml. What would I end up going to?
well 0,5ml EOD would be 525mg a wk if a vial is 300mg/ml