A1C is a measure of your average glucose levels. The concern is insulin resistance or type II diabetes.
Have you read Wilson’s book on adrenal fatigue?
Did you read: - read the thyroid basics sticky
Thanks for your time and kind reply KSman.
I have in fact just finished reading the 1st page of the thyroid sticky and I find the iodine deficiency aspect VERY interesting…
So interesting in fact that I am going to look for iodine supplements tomorrow, but from a cursory google it seems that iodine supplements are not all the rage here in ZA, meaning that most of the stuff I could find was for disinfectants / infections.
I am assuming that that is not to be taken internally ? 
Will let you know how I go…
Okay, so I may have found a supplier for Lugol’s solution. Not sure what the concentration is yet, will probably find out tomorrow.
Anyway, as I am trying to “cover all my bases” regarding regaining my vitality with the restart et al. I am going to start supplementing with Lugol’s solution / Iodine.
I will probably start at 12.5mg/day and ramp up to the recommended 50mg/day by adding 12.5mg/week (i.e. 1st week 12.5mg/day, 2nd week 25mg/day etc)
I also hope to support this with VitC, selenium, unrefined salt & magnesium in an attempt to support the adrenals and to minimize the effect of any detox.
I sincerely hope that this would assist in improving core temps, will measure them as we go and also supply anecdotal evidence as to any improvements in energy / heartburn / metabolism etc.
To reiterate, this step is an addendum to the restart, which stays in place, although, I might just delay the next set of labs by a week or so in order to allow any benefits from the IR to assist the HPTA axis. I will also still continue to supplement with DHEA, pregnenolone and progesterone cream in order to allow the HPTA glands to rest somewhat…
You can probably find a B-complex multi-vit with trace elements including iodine and selenium.
Men should avoid iron in vitamins and iron fortified foods.
Weight and metabolic balance are dominated by:
TT, FT
E2
Cortisol
Thyroid function
IGF-1 (GH)
[quote]KSman wrote:
Is this useful?
https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&as_q=iodine&as_epq=&as_oq=&as_eq=&as_nlo=&as_nhi=&lr=&cr=countryZA&as_qdr=all&as_sitesearch=&as_occt=any&safe=images&as_filetype=&as_rights=#q=iodine&cr=countryZA&hl=en&as_qdr=all&tbs=ctr:countryZA&start=10
You can probably find a B-complex multi-vit with trace elements including iodine and selenium.
Men should avoid iron in vitamins and iron fortified foods.
Weight and metabolic balance are dominated by:
TT, FT
E2
Cortisol
Thyroid function
IGF-1 (GH)[/quote]
Thanks so much for your kind reply KSman, I was on that exact same google page, so I have hope for my googling skills…
Given the dosages needed for the IR, I am not sure that any vitamin supplement will be able to provide adequate amounts.
Luckliy, I am going to my local pharmacy this morning after speaking with them on the phone and they know what Lugol’s is (woohoo) and may be able to order for me…
With reference to your information above:
Weight and metabolic balance are dominated by:
TT, FT: Working on that
E2 : Working on that
Cortisol: Working on that (numbers have already improved in fact)
Thyroid function : Now my focus whilst I wait to determine if I am primary / secondary
IGF-1 (GH): Still a bit of an enigma to me will hopefully get to that later.
So, in my mind, if I can find my sweet spots with the above I should be able to regain my vitality…
Thanks for your help KSman
Hi All. Just a quick report of where I find myself:
HPTA Restart:
I have started my 4th week of hCG @ 250iu EOD & Aromasin 20mg ED
To date, no real changes can be seen / felt to have taken place. Anecdotal evidence is not the most accurate, but seeing as vitality is very much individualistic, I do believe how I feel / clinical symptoms are very important. So, if there are no changes to be seen / felt, I do not really have hope for the new labs…
I plan on doing new bloods next week in the middle of week 5.
In order to determine the success or lack thereof of phase one of the HPTA restart, I will do the following labs as per this post from KSman HPTA Restart - Testosterone Replacement - Forums - T Nation
- TT, FT
- E2
What would classify as success resulting in stepping into phase 2? Top end TT & FT with low end E2? Should phase 1 get me into high ranges?
More importantly, what would classify as failure? And, if it is a failure would I cease all AI & hCG administration and move on to TRT / HRT ?
Cannot wait to see the results TBH…
Right, onto thyroid:
Having read the stickies, I have managed to source Lugol’s 5%, selenium 200mcg, magnesium, calcium & Vit C.
My wife and I performed 3 back to back Iodine patch tests (i.e. 3 consecutive days), all 3 of which we failed miserably seeing as the iodine patches disappeared within 5 hrs. The last one we painted “heavily” (couple of coats) and that was absorbed within 12 hrs. just to check. For all its faults and short comings I do believe that the patch test gives some sort of an indication of needing IR…so our conclusion is that we are both deficient.
We have a business deadline that expires this Thursday so we are planning on starting with IR on Friday with the above mentioned supplements with 8 drops of Lugol’s each. Should we detox to badly we will back off on the dosages. We are really looking forward to this as well…
Thanks for reading.
Noted
You are taking a lot of aromasin without any evidence (or much likelihood, given your regimen) that E2 is elevated. Low E2 will cause fatigue, depression, low libido, etc., i.e., exacerbate the very symptoms you have.
[quote]seekonk wrote:
You are taking a lot of aromasin without any evidence (or much likelihood, given your regimen) that E2 is elevated. Low E2 will cause fatigue, depression, low libido, etc., i.e., exacerbate the very symptoms you have. [/quote]
Hi Seekonk, thanks for your post and your concern.
And I agree with you…however, given that I am E2 dominant (albeit from a low base) and that I am trying to restart the testes, I was willing to add the AI should hCG be successful in increasing TT / FT (Trying to bring E2 down and increase T)
You may be right, the new bloods next week will show what has happened with the various levels. I do expect low levels of everything (incl. T) and that I will be going on to TRT therapy forthwith, but I am trying to be patient and follow the correct protocols to avoid any if’s/ands or butts.
Be sure to check in next week / following week some time to see what the new labs say…
Caio
Ok, the day before the new bloods to see if phase 1 of the restart attempt has been successful or not.
I am about as excited as a kid before Christmas morning, I can’t wait to see the results, but really, I think that I already know what they will show…
Low TT, low fT and reduced E2.
That is what I am expecting, we will see…I am expecting the above result because I can see / feel absolutely no improvement in clinical symptoms. Who knows, perhaps TT & ft will be higher but E2 is too low given the dosage of Aromasin that I was taking (see Seekonk’s reply above), but…this is all guess work until the results are in, I will post them as soon as I have them and would then humbly ask for advice in the way forward.
Caio.
Just a quick side note, I have noticed that if I inject hCG on a Monday, I am depressed on a Tuesday (so much so that I would tear up just sitting at the computer), no other days, only a Tuesday…I do not know how that would come about given that I am controlling E2 via Aromasin, ED & there are no other changes in “meds” during the week, so that is interesting…
Caio
Hi All, KSman, I trust everyone is well?
I have received the results of the latest labs for phase 1 of the restart attempt, these are below (I have also reposted the baseline and 2nd results for ease of reference). My comments follow the results and I hope that you would provide some guidance, thanks.
---------------/07/07/2015-----/28/09/2015----/03/11/2015----/
Test Type------/1st Test-------/2nd Test------/3rd Test------/ Reference Ranges
S-PSA----------/1.46 ng/ml-----/DNT-----------/DNT-----------/ 0.00 - 4.00
S-TSH----------/0.91 uIU/mL----/1.37 uIU/mL—/DNT-----------/ 0.35 - 4.94
S-Progesterone-/<.03 nmol/L----/6 nmol/L------/DNT-----------/ 0.40 - 3.10
E2-------------/72 pmol/L------/60 pmol/L-----/78 pmol/L-----/ 40.0 - 161
TT-------------/6.7 nmol/L-----/4.9 nmol/L----/10.1 nmol/L—/ >12 nmol/L
SHBG-----------/12.8 nmol/l----/17.30 nmol/l–/14.40 nmol/L–/ 11.1 - 78.1
fT-------------/196 pmol/L-----/126 pmol/L----/292 pmol/L----/ 180 - 739
S-DHEA---------/2.29 umol/L----/9.98 umol/L—/--------------/ 3.82 - 13.1
S-FSH----------/DNT------------/2.6 U/L-------/DNT-----------/ 1.00 - 12.0
S-LH-----------/4.0 U/L--------/3.0 U/L-------/--------------/ 1.80 - 8.2 E/L?
S-Cortisol-----/64 nmol/L------/142 nmol/L----/--------------/ 101 - 535
S-fT3----------/DNT------------/5.1 pmol/L----/DNT-----------/ 2.60 - 5.70
S-fT4----------/DNT------------/14.7 pmol/L—/DNT-----------/ 9.00 - 19.0
Thyroglobulin–/DNT------------/12.8 ug/L-----/DNT-----------/ <55
TG Antibodies–/DNT------------/1.97 IU/mL----/DNT-----------/ <4.11
S-Prolactin----/DNT------------/--------------/17.3 ng/mL----/ 2.60 - 18.10
Test 1 refers to baseline labs. These were performed before I found this forum.
This test identified low TT & fT, high (relative to T) E2 & adrenal fatigue by way of low Cotisol, DHEA & Progesterone.
Therapy added after baseline labs:
- DHEA @ 25mg’s M,T,T,F
- Pregnenolone @ 30 mg’s M,T,T,F
- Progesterone @ 2*30mg’s M,T,W,T,F
- Turmeric
- DAA
- Melatonin time release 3mg’s M,T,W,T,F
Test 2 shows effect of above therapies, notably, lower TT & fT as well as E2, with DHEA & Progesterone showing nice increases.
Therapy added after 2nd test:
- Discontinued DAA
- Reduced Progesterone to 30mg’s day
- DHEA remained
- Pregnenolone remained
- Melatonin remained
- Turmeric remained
- hCG @ 250 IU’s EOD
- Aromasin 20mg’s ED
- Lugols @ 50mg’s M,T,W,T,F
- Selenium @ 200mcg M,T,W,T,F
- Calcium @ 200mg’s M,T,W,T,F
- Magnesium @ 400 mg’s M,T,W,T,F
- Vit C @ 3000 Mg’s M,T,W,T,F
The results of the above therapies are reflected in the labs (labs specifically for HPTA restart purposes) of Test 3.
What is interesting is that both my TT & ft are up, in the lower quarter of acceptable ranges (so a Doc will say I am fine, grrrr) so the hCG did have some sort of an effect. I am assuming though that the change was not great enough? Also, my E2 is much higher than I expected it to be. Whilst it is possible that my Aromasin could have been bunk, I do not think that that is the case but rather that I am an “over-aromatiser” if that is even possible…
Also, my prolactin is scarily high, on the top end of the range, could this have an effect of production of TT / fT and aromatisation into E2? Whilst I would like to do an MRI, it is not feasible for me, so…
Now, what is the way forward? Is it worthwhile for me to attempt phase 2 of the HPTA restart? If so, I am assuming that I should get Anastrozole as an AI, seeing as Aromasin is not doing the thing?
Or are the above results to be considered a failure and I should go to TRT? What to do with the prolactin figure? Dostinex/Cabergoline?
Thanks so much for the help guys, I look forward to hearing from you.
Caio
I have converted my E2 levels to those that are referred to here on this forum and even though they are high in relation to my TT & fT levels, thet are actually within the range that is desired…
Looking at the results, my TT & fT increased by 50%, albeit from a very low base, so the ol’ testes are working, just not as they should be.
This tells me that this exercise is a failure and that I should go on to TRT. What to do about the prolactin levels? IDK, hopefully someone can guide me in the correct direction.
I will post my proposed way forward in a little while for comment.
Okay, given that phase 1 did deliver an increase in TT & fT, but not a big enough one (in the bottom of the low of the range), and that I have adrenal fatigue, I do not think that it is worth my while to attempt phase 2…
Therefore I plan (after considering direction / comments given) to do TRT, in conjunction with my other supplements listed above.
I have Test Cyp 250mg/ml, Arimidex 2mg/ml, hCG and Nolvadex at my disposal. Not sure if a SERM has any place in TRT, especially given adrenal fatigue, so I hope for your comments on the Nolvadex please.
So, according to this post: TRT: Protocol for Injections - Testosterone Replacement - Forums - T Nation : I will be doing the following:
- 0.25 ml Test Cyp Monday morning, and 0.25 ml Test Cyp Thursday evening, splitting the week perfectly in two, for a total of 0.5 ml Test Cyp / week supplying 125mg’s of Test.
- 0.25 ml of Arimidex Monday morning, and 0.25 ml of Arimidex Thursday evening for a total of 0.5 ml Arimidex giving 1mg Arimidex / week
- hCG 250 iU’s at the time of the Test E shots. (done this way instead of EOD for ease of use and given that I am already supplementing with DHEA, pregnenolone and progesterone, the hCG is really only there to ensure the nuts hang low and do not disappear, not so?)
- Does Nolvadex have any place here, if it does, how much / when ?
All injections would be SQ as per the referenced post, the Arimidex is already in liquid form, I would just have to figure out how many drops would make up 0.25 ml, hCG is easy.
I also realise that the Test dose may be on the high side, but, given my age, how long I have been low TT / fT, my receptors are probably few and far between and my fat levels on the higher side, so I am not too fussed about be 25mg’s over the recommendation
Follow up labs would be done around about 5 weeks from the start date, on a Wednesday morning to allow me to dial in TT, fT & E2. More than likely the only thing that would need adjusting is the Arimidex.
I will also start a new thread to follow this one to log the progress made on the HRT…
So, what are the thoughts? I place a high value on the input that I receive on this forum and look forward to hearing from you guys.
Thanks
I like your thinking.
T dose … do not recall your body weight. I have in the past suggested scaling dose up relative to 160 pounds. But labs will rule.
Do not keep on 50mg/day iodine, drop to 6.5mg/week maintenance.
Progesterone worked very well for you.
Prolactin suggests that prolactin secreting adinoma is possible. Usually shows up in younger males. Easily managed with 0.5mg/week Dostinex/cabergoline. MRI can be used to look at the pituitary. Level is not high by pathology standards. Search for adinoma and prolactin in advice for new guys sticky and things that damage your hormones.
Thanks for the reply KSman, sorry for taking so long to get back to everyone.
I have sourced all my needed meds, should be arriving some time this week. (hopefully). This includes the cabergoline for the high prolactin levels.
I am closing this thread now and opening a HRT thread, see you all there.
Klippe