Datamining OK for 4th Amendment

The 6th Circuit Court of Appeals has just come down with an opinion saying that the U.S. government search of a database does not implicate the 4th Amendment.

This is as expected – there is no rational expectation of privacy on data released generally to the public, or to private organizations if there isn’t some statute in place specifically protecting it (e.g. health-related information and HIPPA), so if the data is gathered in a manner consistent with the 4th Amendment, then its mere aggregation and analysis does not violate the 4th Amendment. In other words, the 4th Amendment is applicable to gathering evidence, not the use of computers for organization and analysis of evidence.

The opinion is here:

[quote]BostonBarrister wrote:
The 6th Circuit Court of Appeals has just come down with an opinion saying that the U.S. government search of a database does not implicate the 4th Amendment.

This is as expected – there is no rational expectation of privacy on data released generally to the public, or to private organizations if there isn’t some statute in place specifically protecting it (e.g. health-related information and HIPPA), so if the data is gathered in a manner consistent with the 4th Amendment, then its mere aggregation and analysis does not violate the 4th Amendment. In other words, the 4th Amendment is applicable to gathering evidence, not the use of computers for organization and analysis of evidence.

The opinion is here:

http://www.ca6.uscourts.gov/opinions.pdf/06a0339p-06.pdf[/quote]

“A tenet of constitutional jurisprudence is that the Fourth Amendment protects only what an
individual seeks to keep private. Katz, 389 U.S. at 351-52. ?What a person knowingly exposes to
the public . . . is not a subject of Fourth Amendment protection.?”

I think there is an argument that phone records do not fall into this category of information.

Are phone records available to the public? Not are the expressly protected, but are they available to the public?

I think the datamining case is definitely much weaker than the case on FISA, and may be without merit if the date is available publicly.

I don’t think the cases are strictly analogous as a license plate is publicly visible, while I would assume my phone records are not. (Maybe unjustifiedly.

[quote]BostonBarrister wrote:
The 6th Circuit Court of Appeals has just come down with an opinion saying that the U.S. government search of a database does not implicate the 4th Amendment.

This is as expected – there is no rational expectation of privacy on data released generally to the public, or to private organizations if there isn’t some statute in place specifically protecting it (e.g. health-related information and HIPPA), so if the data is gathered in a manner consistent with the 4th Amendment, then its mere aggregation and analysis does not violate the 4th Amendment. In other words, the 4th Amendment is applicable to gathering evidence, not the use of computers for organization and analysis of evidence.

The opinion is here:

http://www.ca6.uscourts.gov/opinions.pdf/06a0339p-06.pdf[/quote]

Move to China you commie.

[quote]Marmadogg wrote:

Move to China you commie.[/quote]

You know, if you want to avoid looking like an idiot, I would suggest that when you’ve got no thoughts, try to avoid posting…

[quote]ExNole wrote:

“A tenet of constitutional jurisprudence is that the Fourth Amendment protects only what an
individual seeks to keep private. Katz, 389 U.S. at 351-52. ?What a person knowingly exposes to
the public . . . is not a subject of Fourth Amendment protection.?”

I think there is an argument that phone records do not fall into this category of information.

Are phone records available to the public? Not are the expressly protected, but are they available to the public? [/quote]

I believe that if something is provided to a private company in a stream-of-commerce relationship, and isn’t protected, then it’s essentially “public” for the purpose of rational expectation of privacy.

[quote]ExNole wrote:
I think the datamining case is definitely much weaker than the case on FISA, and may be without merit if the date is available publicly.

I don’t think the cases are strictly analogous as a license plate is publicly visible, while I would assume my phone records are not. (Maybe unjustifiedly.[/quote]

I think the data mining case is a slam dunk unless there is some statutory protection of which I’m not aware that controls the phone records.

[quote]BostonBarrister wrote:
Marmadogg wrote:

Move to China you commie.

You know, if you want to avoid looking like an idiot, I would suggest that when you’ve got no thoughts, try to avoid posting…[/quote]

Too bad you don’t take your own opinions seriously.

[quote]

Marmadogg wrote:

Move to China you commie.

BostonBarrister wrote:
You know, if you want to avoid looking like an idiot, I would suggest that when you’ve got no thoughts, try to avoid posting…

Marmadogg wrote:
Too bad you don’t take your own opinions seriously.[/quote]

This is getting pathetic. You’re like Biff in Back to the Future: “Why don’t you make like a tree and get out of here?!”

I believe the word you were looking for was “advice,” not “opinions”. Seriously, your grammar school teachers should be refunding their salaries as a matter of pure principle.

All this might even be forgivable due to the entertainment value of watching you try to be witty if you had one salient point to add, but, as usual, your thoughts aren’t worth the proverbial wooden nickel.

I apologize to Ex-Nole for even taking the time to respond, which only further encourages you to add more of your manure to the threads.

Now try to take this advice, paraphrased from an old saying: “Better to not post a response and be thought an idiot than to post and confirm it.”

[quote]BostonBarrister wrote:

Marmadogg wrote:

Move to China you commie.

BostonBarrister wrote:
You know, if you want to avoid looking like an idiot, I would suggest that when you’ve got no thoughts, try to avoid posting…

Marmadogg wrote:
Too bad you don’t take your own opinions seriously.

This is getting pathetic. You’re like Biff in Back to the Future: “Why don’t you make like a tree and get out of here?!”

I believe the word you were looking for was “advice,” not “opinion”. Seriously, your grammar school teachers should be refunding their salaries as a matter of pure principle.

All this might even be forgivable due to the entertainment value of watching you try to be witty if you had one salient point to add, but, as usual, your thoughts aren’t worth the proverbial wooden nickel.

I apologize to Ex-Nole for even taking the time to respond, which only further encourages you to add more of your manure to the threads.

Now try to take this advice, paraphrased from an old saying: “Better to not post a response and be thought an idiot than to post and confirm it.” [/quote]

I used opinion for a reason…

Nice try genius.

[quote]
Marmadogg wrote:

Move to China you commie.

BostonBarrister wrote:
You know, if you want to avoid looking like an idiot, I would suggest that when you’ve got no thoughts, try to avoid posting…

Marmadogg wrote:
Too bad you don’t take your own opinions seriously.

BostonBarrister wrote:
This is getting pathetic. You’re like Biff in Back to the Future: “Why don’t you make like a tree and get out of here?!”

I believe the word you were looking for was “advice,” not “opinion”. Seriously, your grammar school teachers should be refunding their salaries as a matter of pure principle.

All this might even be forgivable due to the entertainment value of watching you try to be witty if you had one salient point to add, but, as usual, your thoughts aren’t worth the proverbial wooden nickel.

I apologize to Ex-Nole for even taking the time to respond, which only further encourages you to add more of your manure to the threads.

Now try to take this advice, paraphrased from an old saying: “Better to not post a response and be thought an idiot than to post and confirm it.”

Marmadogg wrote:
I used opinion for a reason…

Nice try genius.[/quote]

If you had done it by accident it wouldn’t be nearly as amusing.

[quote]BostonBarrister wrote:

Marmadogg wrote:

Move to China you commie.

BostonBarrister wrote:
You know, if you want to avoid looking like an idiot, I would suggest that when you’ve got no thoughts, try to avoid posting…

Marmadogg wrote:
Too bad you don’t take your own opinions seriously.

This is getting pathetic. You’re like Biff in Back to the Future: “Why don’t you make like a tree and get out of here?!”

I believe the word you were looking for was “advice,” not “opinions”. Seriously, your grammar school teachers should be refunding their salaries as a matter of pure principle.

All this might even be forgivable due to the entertainment value of watching you try to be witty if you had one salient point to add, but, as usual, your thoughts aren’t worth the proverbial wooden nickel.

I apologize to Ex-Nole for even taking the time to respond, which only further encourages you to add more of your manure to the threads.

Now try to take this advice, paraphrased from an old saying: “Better to not post a response and be thought an idiot than to post and confirm it.” [/quote]

Don’t worry about it man. I like arguing the cases, though I’m not informed enough to make very strong claims.

It’s a shame to have these threads end up with personal attacks.

[quote]
BostonBarrister wrote:

I apologize to Ex-Nole for even taking the time to respond, which only further encourages you to add more of your manure to the threads.

ExNole wrote:
Don’t worry about it man. I like arguing the cases, though I’m not informed enough to make very strong claims.

It’s a shame to have these threads end up with personal attacks.[/quote]

I take full responsibility for rising to the bait. In the future I should just ignore those posts that add nothing to the topic at hand (which, ironically, would include this one…).

[quote]BostonBarrister wrote:

BostonBarrister wrote:

I apologize to Ex-Nole for even taking the time to respond, which only further encourages you to add more of your manure to the threads.

ExNole wrote:
Don’t worry about it man. I like arguing the cases, though I’m not informed enough to make very strong claims.

It’s a shame to have these threads end up with personal attacks.

I take full responsibility for rising to the bait. In the future I should just ignore those posts that add nothing to the topic at hand (which, ironically, would include this one…).[/quote]

Good luck BB.