Why should they risk their lives? The guy was human garbage and got what he deserved.
Obama has blood on his hands Mufasa (just as he does with the Islamic terrorist attacks on our nation). He started this entire problem and continues to make it worse. Do you remember back a few years ago when he attacked the Police Department and one particular officer for questioning a black man for sneaking around a certain house? He was called to the neighborhood to check out the person. It turned out that the man was a Professor and lived at that particular house. The President of the United States made a remark that āthe police acted stupidly.ā
Remember that? Funny how he took the side of the black man immediately before even hearing the evidence. Also funny that the President of the United States had to comment on a simple non violent Police matter.
Then came Trayvon Martin the black man shot by a certain (non-white) neighborhood watchman. Obama said āTrayvon Martin could have been my son.ā and the media began to show pictures of a young Trayvon Martin. They never reported the truth about his long record of crime, or that he attacked the neighborhood watchman and was attempting to beat him to death. None of that matters to Obama or the left wing media.
Then there was the Police shooting of Michael Brown by officer Darren Wilson. Brown a 6ā 4" 350 pound black thug who just committed a crime was attempting to assault (or worse) Officer Wilson by opening the officers car door and assaulting him. Fortunately Wilson shot and killed him probably saving his own life and no doubt others in the process.
And what did Obama say? āThe tragic killing of black men has got to stop.ā
Obama and his wife are racists. They have no love of this country. Obama came to office seeking to āfundamentally change Americaā. have you ever wanted to fundamentally change something that you truly loved? No? Neither have I.
I have been predicting that Hillary Clinton will not become President but if for some reason I am wrong I will still celebrate the day she is sworn in and Obama is no longer commander and chief as he has done far more harm to America both domestically and foreign policy wise than any other President in our history. In about 6 1/2 months I will say goodbye and good riddance to a man who never should have been elected to the highest office in the land and when he was did virtually everything wrong from start to finish.
Zeb brings up a good point, the media has fueled a false narrative in the past, so we canāt just assume any one group (be it the police or the protesters) are telling the truth.
1 Like
Besides āeverybodyā as an existential base, who should be looking in the mirror?
I didnāt do it and I wouldnāt do it. I am also not calling for the death and destruction of anybody not called ISIS, Boko Haram, or any other terrorist organizations actively carrying out unimaginable atrocities against human beings across the globe actively.
And how would you propose ending the stand off? After all they did try asking nicely, first. He wasnāt a suspect, he was an active shooter. He was an immediate danger to those around him and other methods were tried first.
The second you wrote this Zeb; the rest of your rant was part of a divisive narrative that is not part of the solution, but a major part of the problem.
To even suggest that the President startedā¦or even worsenedā¦racial dividesā¦in this Country almost doesnāt warrant a response.
In answer to Patā¦I am a firm believer that one is either part of the solution or part of the problem.
When things are writtenā¦(and one TRULY believes)ā¦that the āPresident only cares about Black peopleāā¦āHe is only sympathetic to Muslims and Hates Israelāā¦and āHe has blood on his handsāā¦suggesting that hate and racially motivated killings are a result of him being in officeā¦
If you truly believe those things; then you are are as far from being part of the solution as is āBlack Lives Mattersāā¦
2 Likes
Real life counterstrike
Yes, they have. They have taken up activism over reporting of the facts. The facts matter. In some cases the facts are the only thing that matter.
As in the Michael Brown incident, in light of the fact that he did not have his hands up, that he assaulted a policeman after recently stealing from a store, the facts should have changed the entire narrative. There should not have been a protest for that asshole. Could the situation been otherwise resolved, perhaps, I do not know I was not there. But if you assault a police officer, your chances of getting shot go up exponentially, especially if you are going after that policemanās gun.
But the media fueled the fire. Not by reporting the facts, but catching the emotion of people that had nothing to do with the incident.
The case with Alton Sterling I am still waiting on more facts in that case, but it certainly looked like the policemen involved took in appropriate, excessive action. I do not think they took off their white hoods off in the morning to put on their uniform looking to kill a black man that day. I believe they would have acted that way with a person of any color and approaching the situation with the stupidity and lack of professionalism in which they approached that one. And if they cannot produce any facts that dispue their atrocious behavior in the video, then they need to be charge with his homicide. However, we do not still yet have the facts and we need the facts to come to a judgement on the matter before we start fueling a fire that had no reason to be burning in the first place had the facts been reported and circulated with regards to the Michael Brown case.
The Philando Castile case to me looked like cold blooded murder. That video scared the shit out of me because I am a concealed carry licensed gun owner who always has a gun with me in the car. That could easily have been me, reaching for my wallet. We do know a lot about what happened because of the quick thinking of his girl friend to start live streaming immediately. So barring some scant missing facts, that one looks really bad. Now I know what to do with police with regards to my gun. I tell them I have it and keep them on the wheel until told to do otherwise. However, someone breaking that protocol should not be shot 4 times.
Note to the police: If someone tells they have a gun, they are not likely to be the ones to shoot you.
If your thinking, āOh, but youāre not black.ā Well, I donāt exactly fit the profile of the good little law abiding WASP either. I am long haired and scruffy looking. My hair goes under my shoulder blades. So am not a little old lady from Pasadena either.
I donāt know if that cop was a racist or just a hot-headed prick looking to pick a fight with somebody that doesnāt look like him. But barring some extraneous fact that could in some way justify what that cop did, that was murder. I will wait for the facts before passing final judgement, but I am not sure what could come out that would make that video look any better.
If the facts do not change, that cop should be charge with murder.
My problem with BLM isnāt their overall message that the police in this country have long been out of control. I agree, having been a victim of some seriously bad apples myself. Having been harassed, handcuffed and thrown in the back of police cars with no justification myself, I know that a policeman can ruin your life, if he wants to, just because he wants to. But their premise that itās because their racist, I do not buy. I donāt buy it because I have had the same shit happen to me. I donāt buy it because itās happened to friends of mine too. Now, I can say, at least the times I was caught doing something actually illegal, I was lucky enough to have āthe good onesā, be the ones who caught me.
The cops may have an ā-istā problem of some sort, but I do not buy that they are disproportionately racist to the overall population. But there is corruption, a lack of oversight, financial motivation, etc. that is prevalent in too many places. And there may be some small town departments that are worse, but if you want to see the worst of all big depts in action go to New Orleans. The NOLA has been entangled in corruption for so long itās unbelievable and they are still the one of the worst, if not the worst in the country. They have been caught over and over and over and nothing ever changes. The good news is you can still get your tickets fixed if you know the right people.
BLM thinks the problem is racism. That premise is false. Yes, there are racist cops, but that isnāt the over all problem with our police departments. Itās the lack of rights for the citizen and the overwhelming power a policemen has in non-confrontational situations. The police can do anything to you and you cannot do shit to defend or protect yourself should they choose to detain you for any reason or no reason in particular. Sorry, that does not happen to just black people. It happens to a lot of people. And they look for easy targets, not threatening ones. So BLM can kiss my ass. And the media who pulpits for them and hides their shame when they rally and say shit like āWhat do we want? Dead cops. When do we want it? Now!ā are equally to blame. And I want to hear what was said in that supposed peaceful rally in Dallas. I know, āPigs in a blanketā, I know āGod damn white Americaā was said. I wonder what else?
Hey if you hate cops that much, when someone opens fire, grab your gun and protect yourself. Run toward the shooter and take him out, donāt run like a pussy from trouble if you donāt want police help. Run toward it and make it right yourself. The cops didnāt run.
We definitely need some reforms in police departments and citizens deserve their rights. But this notion that the cops are out to get blacks is horseshit and people need to call it the horseshit that it is.
1 Like
Then tell us all Mufasa how did we go from having good race relations when Reagan, Bush Sr. Clinton and Bush W were President to being in the mess that we are currently with Obama at the helm?
How many Police were assassinated under the previous four Presidents that I mentioned? How many black hate groups were there before Obama?
Are you that blind? What was his job before he ran for Senator? Oh yes community organizer which translates to rabble rousing trouble maker.
I donāt know how many Presidents that youāve seen in your lifetime, nor do I know if you have studied past Presidents. But I have lived through many, many administrations and pride myself on knowing the history of the many great, and not so great, Presidents that weāve had and I can tell you that Obama does not act like, nor does he think like any American President that Iāve ever seen, witnessed or studied.
Donāt make write me a long, long list of why he so very bad. Just look at race relations today and think this one thought: āObama did itā ANDā¦HE MEANT TO DO IT!!
[quote=āpat, post:28, topic:219283ā]
The Philando Castile case to me looked like cold blooded murder. That video scared the shit out of me because I am a concealed carry licensed gun owner who always has a gun with me in the car. That could easily have been me, reaching for my wallet. [/quote]
Nonsense my friend. I was stopped recently and before I reached for my license I asked the officer if it was okay to open my center console to produce my license and registration. I then proceeded to do so slowly and with great respect for the fact that the officer in question had no idea (yet) if I was a good guy or a bad guy. So I operated with great care. I am not saying Castile deserved to be shot as I do not know the facts. But, if you tell an officer that you have a gun (with a permit) and then you reach wildly for ā¦your license? a gun? whateverā¦not the smartest move.
You mean the girlfriend who showed a remarkable lack of remorse for her dying boyfriend? That was quite mystifying to me. Granted she may have been in shock but rather it seemed cold and calculated.
Yes, it did look bad, but when the facts poor inā¦the ones that were not recorded it might look quite a bit different. On the other hand could it have been as bad as the short video showed it to be? Sure could.
Really excellent reply overall pat. Really fantastic and agree with a lot.
This part, I think, is debatable. Not that āpolice are racistā. I do not believe the majority of the nations cops are racist. Like you I believe there are racist cops (and some cops that are simply drowned in cynicism through what they have witnessed and eventually become racist via cycnicism). However, I also believe there is the potential for racist police departments. I very firmly believe this. I do not believe that the majority of the nationās police departments are racist either. But I do think it is possible that there are racist departments scattered throughout the country. The other problem is exactly what you mentionedācorruption, too much power, lack of oversight, financial motivation, the āblue wallā, etc.
The issue is that these problems feed off of each other. They make each other worse, until one day people who are the victims of these oppressive evils (not used in a class theory manner here) get so angry and afraid that they canāt distinguish one from the other. All they know is that they feel hunted. It doesnāt even matter if it is OBJECTIVELY true or notāperception is reality for peopleā¦ and if one feels that they are hunted for long enough it becomes their reality.
Once that state occurs they are not capable of distinguishing easily between racism and the other. Note to others that I am not saying that this is an intellectual problem with their capacity to reason. I mean thatāsimilarly to a woman who is in an abusive relationship (doesnāt matter whether it is physically abusive or not, I mean emotionally, mentally, etc) long enough canāt see a good relationship when it is in front of herā¦or even when sheās in it. I mean it in the sense that when someone deals with a bossy manager or owner at work long enough and chronically enough it doesnāt even matter that the conversation being had at the moment is completely civil and politeāit is ingrained in the psyche of the person that this boss wants them to fail or is angryā¦or whatever.
Perception does not match objective reality many times. However, a personās perception BECOMES their reality once exposed to it long enough. This is true in daily life just as it is true in media biased coverage and exploitation. This is true especially when one grows up their whole life in an area that sees this happen constantly.
My whole point is that it doesnāt matter at some point what premise is logically true or falseāwhat premise is objectively true or false. When you reach the point a vast swath of our country is at, you canāt easily say āok, I feel this way but that doesnāt make it objectively true, I need to investigateā.
Pat youāre a Christian, as am I. You and Sloth (possibly mostly Sloth, I am having trouble remembering specifics) have written elsewhere about how needing to tend to peopleās physical wounds or problemsāhealth, food, shelter, etcāis a calling for Christians of all political stripes and for that matter most all people regardless of religion. One of the points made is that people in need canāt often see the larger forest for their pressing needs. Same goes here.
NONE of this justifies riots, or calling for dead people, cops or otherwise. NONE of this justifies vandalism or racism on either side of this. Certainly none of this justifies an asshole shooting people.
However, I have several life-long family friends who are black. Literally known their family my whole life. PhDs in education, strong positive (non-partisan) community builders, kids are lawyers and teachers, professors and such and highly educated. Kids are positive, non-divisive leaders as well. They grew up in the inner city, their house has bullet holes in it. They didnāt move because they were determined to help build up their community instead of run. These friends have never said one word during the Michael Brown issue, most of the prior issues either. Iāve never heard them say anything negative about police or anybodyā¦ This past week Iām hearing them cryāIām hearing them say and write things like āwhy donāt we matter? How can this keep happening?ā
If this is what happens to highly educated, respectful and successful lawyers and educatorsāpeople who hate the demagogues Jackson and Sharpton for dividing their communities and preying on insecurities-- If this is what happens to THEM, how can one expect people less educated to be able to see things from a dispassionate distance??
You canāt.
Thatās the problem. Weāre at a point where objective reality doesnāt matter very much to people who feel like theyāre being hunted. I despise the BLM activists who are chanting these things. I canāt support the BLM movement because of their behavior. None of what I have written justifies that kind of behavior. But we need to start looking at the underlying fear that is influencing people towards this sort of unacceptable behavior. Because it is killing us.
2 Likes
Are you KIDDING me, Zeb?
I hope you did not write this as a serious statement; because if you did, Iām at a loss and really DONāT have anything to sayā¦
1 Like
It is a fitting book end to the Obama years. He started off his presidency by letting the Black Panthers off the hook for voter intimidation and now another Black Panther has put the exclamation mark on the end of his presidency by killing police.
What else did any of you expect from a president who as a young man Obama idolized sixties radicals such as the Black Panthers or Bill Ayers and the Weathermen.
Obama has promoted racial division in this country because the left can exploit it for political ends. He never spoke out against the Black Lives Matter movement which spews populist rhetoric for idiots to buy into because it creates leverage for the left to take away our liberty.
The reason why is self evident. For the last twenty years the murder rate in this country has been steadily declining as concealed carry laws have become less restrictive. This progressive decline in the murder rate undermines the leftās shrill cryās for ever more draconian and restrictive gun control laws.
In order to regain control of the narrative the left had to turn the declining murder rate around, this is where the Black Lives Matter movement comes in. Over half the homicide victims in this country are black and the majority of their murderers are other blacks. As the BLM movement drives aggressive pro-active policing out of the black community the murder rates are going to go up.
Leftist radicals murdering police is another tool the left can use to push for more gun control because it allows the left to create a sense of extreme lawlessness, that demands extreme solutions and the leftists have the solution.
2 Likes
When you teach one group the disparity in incarceration rates, poverty, murders by police is solely caused by another group through systematic oppression, events such as this will occur. In reality, victim and witness surveys repeatedly show that police arrest violent criminals in close proportion to the rates at which criminals of different races commit violent crimes.
People on the left will never discuss the facts because they donāt want to lose black votes, and people on the right are too worried about being called racist.
2 Likes
Just because itās uncomfortable to acknowledge, doesnāt make it any less true.
The cure to all that ails ya, more power for the Federal government.
1 Like
Where was Black Lives Matter? Where were the riots? Where were the protests? Things were better during those four Presidents terms than with trouble maker Obama.
Once again you are heavy on opinion but as usual light on facts.
Iāll live with thatā¦
And Iāll do it because I am always studying and reevaluating my Life, my circumstances and what I hold to be true or not.
You (and many Conservatives) believe the President to be a race-baiting, white-hating, Jew-despising, America-Hating Muslim, out to destroy the Nation and take away 300-plus million guns and weapons.
I do not.
Againā¦Iāll Live with that.
1 Like
That is because some local Sheriffās have opposed his gun control policies and also his illegal immigration policies. Local police are more likely to identify with and side with people in their community when they are free from centralized control and not taking orders from outside the community.
Obama and the rest of the leftās solution for everything is less freedom and self determination for the rest of us.
He and his fellow dems Barbara Boxer, Diane Fienstein and most of the rest would love to strip Americans of the 2nd Amendment and just about everyone knows it.