Cycle Check

Pharma / TRT
1

Hello Everyone,

Just wanted some feedback on my next 8 week cycle nothing fancy but I like getting other opinions.

Test E: week 1-8 600mg
Arimidex: week 1-8 .25 every 2-3 days
D-Bol: week 1-3 30mg ed
HCG: week 1-8 500mg/week

PCT

Nolva 30/30/20 at 1-3 weeks

Last cycle was a longer Test E with Mast during a taper phase. Got decent results but found 500mg of Test E could have perhaps been higher. I’m bumping up slightly to 600mg/week to see if it makes a difference instead of ramping up to 750mg right away.

I appreciate any feedback,

Thanks.

2

The cycle looks fine besides the HCG. Id save your money no need to run that during the whole cycle. Your just using test and dbol so you’ll be fine without the HCG just use the nolva for pct and incase gyno appears. What are your stats?

3

Thanks for the input,

I’m not concerned as much about gyno I don’t think I am prone to it at least not from these compounds at these doses. I wanted to add HCG for the recovery affect and the atrophy factor. My balls certainly did shrink at 500mg/week. Would I still use HCG throughout to avoid this? I’ve never used it before and there is a lot of mixed opinions.

As for stats:

32y
Training years 14
6"2 190lbs Body Fat 6-8% somewhere (I am very lean)

Lifts

Bench 285
Deadlift 435
Clean 265
Squat 375

I haven’t done 1 rep max for a while but those should be pretty accurate.

4

The only thing I would say is that you don’t sound extremely sure about your HCG use. Not a slam, just pointing it out. I would certainly research it more before opening up that can of worms; it is not something you want to guess with

5

Its only a 8 week cycle so your recovery isnt going to be too bad because your natural test isnt going to be shut down for that long. Also your only using test and dbol and not other compounds like deca that you would need HCG for. So imo I would save the money and forget the HCG but thats up to you. You should be just fine with nolva for your pct recovery.

6

There is nothing wrong with using hCG in the appropriate dose. 250iu (not mg btw) E3D or EOD. If your balls shrunk in previous cycles and you would like to prevent that then use the hCG.

Why did you choose that particular dosing protocol for PCT? Have you used it before with success?

7

Thanks Guys,

My mistake on the mg’s for HCG. I meant Iu’s. Good catch.

As for the Nolva dosage…My experience from using and from others advice is that less is more. I have not had gyno issues with any compounds thus far so I want to have the least amount of gear or/ancillaries in my system as possible in order to get back to a natural stasis.

As always with cycles, the set parameters must be flexible. I’m not one to cheap out or try to stretch what drugs I have on hand. My health and recovery remain paramount. With that said if I can lessen the amount of Nolva PC then I will…If I find I need to be more aggressive then so be it.

In the past I’ve never had to go with 40mg or more initially so I will use that 30 as a base point. The delicate balance I suppose is finding the point where just enough will allow recovery and yet ward off sides while maximizing gains.

I’m learning to listen to my body with each cycle and trying to gradually increase certain compounds in order to find the best balance to suit my current physical condition.

Again I sincerely appreciate the feedback.

L

8

Here is what the cycle will probably end up looking like:

Week 1-8 600mg Test E
Week 1-3 30mg ed D-Bol
Week 1-6 250iu’s HCG every 3days
Week 1-8 Arimidex .25 eod

PCT
Week 10/11/12
Nolva @ 30/20/20

9

Why not run the HCG until the end of your 8 weeks? In fact, why not start it around week 4 and run it to week 8. That should be more than enough.

10

[quote]Dynamo Hum wrote:
Why not run the HCG until the end of your 8 weeks? In fact, why not start it around week 4 and run it to week 8. That should be more than enough.[/quote]

I think that makes more sense…thanks Dynamo…

11

[quote]Dynamo Hum wrote:
Why not run the HCG until the end of your 8 weeks? In fact, why not start it around week 4 and run it to week 8. That should be more than enough.[/quote]

I started it at week 8 of a 10 week Test E cycle, that was just over 2 weeks ago and my balls are huge!
(250iu EOD)

12

I personally think HCG is useless here other than the fact that it will help with keeping your nuts up to size. So mainly aesthetics I suppose. Thats your call tho.

Might I suggest using Propionate instead of Enanthate? I know some dislike injecting ED and some get problems with prop but if you can handle it then it will kick in much faster than Enanthate. Or pick up some prop and use it at the beginning with the Enanthate until the Enanthate kicks in. Maybe the first 3-4 weeks.

It is your call, but I think you could run the Dbol longer if you’d like too.

I am a believe in only using as much AI as needed instead of going overboard with it, but you seem to know how you respond to increased E and I think your dosing is good to go with the adex.

I think you should increase your PCT and do a 40/40/20/20 imo…certainly nothing wrong with what you have, but I personally believe in being a little more aggressive in regaurds to pct.

my .02

13

[quote]The Phantom wrote:
I personally think HCG is useless here other than the fact that it will help with keeping your nuts up to size. So mainly aesthetics I suppose. Thats your call tho.

Might I suggest using Propionate instead of Enanthate? I know some dislike injecting ED and some get problems with prop but if you can handle it then it will kick in much faster than Enanthate. Or pick up some prop and use it at the beginning with the Enanthate until the Enanthate kicks in. Maybe the first 3-4 weeks.

It is your call, but I think you could run the Dbol longer if you’d like too.

I am a believe in only using as much AI as needed instead of going overboard with it, but you seem to know how you respond to increased E and I think your dosing is good to go with the adex.

I think you should increase your PCT and do a 40/40/20/20 imo…certainly nothing wrong with what you have, but I personally believe in being a little more aggressive in regaurds to pct.

my .02[/quote]

So in theory you could use prop as a kick-start instead of dbol? F-dat throw dbol on top and I’m sure it would be a blast pre-workout. Maybe No-xplode. What with guys getting away with SERM tapers as a PCT. Is it duration, dosage dependent? I’m almost sure of it but I would appreciate your input…Phantom. In whatever the case, my input to the OP: There’s nothing wrong with overkilling the PCT portion. I also second the Phantom regarding AI admin. Holla!

14

[quote]Turbo Mysterio wrote:
The Phantom wrote:
I personally think HCG is useless here other than the fact that it will help with keeping your nuts up to size. So mainly aesthetics I suppose. Thats your call tho.

Might I suggest using Propionate instead of Enanthate? I know some dislike injecting ED and some get problems with prop but if you can handle it then it will kick in much faster than Enanthate. Or pick up some prop and use it at the beginning with the Enanthate until the Enanthate kicks in. Maybe the first 3-4 weeks.

It is your call, but I think you could run the Dbol longer if you’d like too.

I am a believe in only using as much AI as needed instead of going overboard with it, but you seem to know how you respond to increased E and I think your dosing is good to go with the adex.

I think you should increase your PCT and do a 40/40/20/20 imo…certainly nothing wrong with what you have, but I personally believe in being a little more aggressive in regaurds to pct.

my .02

So in theory you could use prop as a kick-start instead of dbol? F-dat throw dbol on top and I’m sure it would be a blast pre-workout. Maybe No-xplode. What with guys getting away with SERM tapers as a PCT. Is it duration, dosage dependent? I’m almost sure of it but I would appreciate your input…Phantom. In whatever the case, my input to the OP: There’s nothing wrong with overkilling the PCT portion. I also second the Phantom regarding AI admin. Holla![/quote]

yes you can use prop as a ‘kick start’ or whatever you want to call it. I would run dbol with it too…actually I’d probably just run prop/dbol for the cycle and ditch the Test E but there is no harm in running that if thats what you have.

I’m not much a believer in using AAS for anything preworkout. Get it in your system and keep levels as stable as possible. Yes half lives and such come into play and possibly you can use dbol and other fast acting drugs to increase your workout but if you need that aggression and whatnot to lift then your different than I as I ‘get up’ for any of my workouts lol.

I believe that SERM tapers are necessary in helping prevent an estro rebound…I know I would certainly taper an AI because of this. Also keep in mind that some SERMS can act as estrogens I believe so adding in high doses and just stopping can throw your hormones for a whack. lol One of the vets would probably clarify this better than I.

15

[quote]The Phantom wrote:
Turbo Mysterio wrote:
The Phantom wrote:
I personally think HCG is useless here other than the fact that it will help with keeping your nuts up to size. So mainly aesthetics I suppose. Thats your call tho.

Might I suggest using Propionate instead of Enanthate? I know some dislike injecting ED and some get problems with prop but if you can handle it then it will kick in much faster than Enanthate. Or pick up some prop and use it at the beginning with the Enanthate until the Enanthate kicks in. Maybe the first 3-4 weeks.

It is your call, but I think you could run the Dbol longer if you’d like too.

I am a believe in only using as much AI as needed instead of going overboard with it, but you seem to know how you respond to increased E and I think your dosing is good to go with the adex.

I think you should increase your PCT and do a 40/40/20/20 imo…certainly nothing wrong with what you have, but I personally believe in being a little more aggressive in regaurds to pct.

my .02

So in theory you could use prop as a kick-start instead of dbol? F-dat throw dbol on top and I’m sure it would be a blast pre-workout. Maybe No-xplode. What with guys getting away with SERM tapers as a PCT. Is it duration, dosage dependent? I’m almost sure of it but I would appreciate your input…Phantom. In whatever the case, my input to the OP: There’s nothing wrong with overkilling the PCT portion. I also second the Phantom regarding AI admin. Holla!

yes you can use prop as a ‘kick start’ or whatever you want to call it. I would run dbol with it too…actually I’d probably just run prop/dbol for the cycle and ditch the Test E but there is no harm in running that if thats what you have.

I’m not much a believer in using AAS for anything preworkout. Get it in your system and keep levels as stable as possible. Yes half lives and such come into play and possibly you can use dbol and other fast acting drugs to increase your workout but if you need that aggression and whatnot to lift then your different than I as I ‘get up’ for any of my workouts lol.

I believe that SERM tapers are necessary in helping prevent an estro rebound…I know I would certainly taper an AI because of this. Also keep in mind that some SERMS can act as estrogens I believe so adding in high doses and just stopping can throw your hormones for a whack. lol One of the vets would probably clarify this better than I.
[/quote]

You’re not keen on the whole “I feel the dbol kickin’ in bra” phenomenon? Personally, 35-50mg preworkout of an arm day guaranteed painful pumps and stellar training sessions. I could forsee the use of prop,dbol as a great kickstart coupled with test e used as the main compound in a 8-10 weeker.

16

[quote]Turbo Mysterio wrote:
The Phantom wrote:
Turbo Mysterio wrote:
The Phantom wrote:
I personally think HCG is useless here other than the fact that it will help with keeping your nuts up to size. So mainly aesthetics I suppose. Thats your call tho.

Might I suggest using Propionate instead of Enanthate? I know some dislike injecting ED and some get problems with prop but if you can handle it then it will kick in much faster than Enanthate. Or pick up some prop and use it at the beginning with the Enanthate until the Enanthate kicks in. Maybe the first 3-4 weeks.

It is your call, but I think you could run the Dbol longer if you’d like too.

I am a believe in only using as much AI as needed instead of going overboard with it, but you seem to know how you respond to increased E and I think your dosing is good to go with the adex.

I think you should increase your PCT and do a 40/40/20/20 imo…certainly nothing wrong with what you have, but I personally believe in being a little more aggressive in regaurds to pct.

my .02

So in theory you could use prop as a kick-start instead of dbol? F-dat throw dbol on top and I’m sure it would be a blast pre-workout. Maybe No-xplode. What with guys getting away with SERM tapers as a PCT. Is it duration, dosage dependent? I’m almost sure of it but I would appreciate your input…Phantom. In whatever the case, my input to the OP: There’s nothing wrong with overkilling the PCT portion. I also second the Phantom regarding AI admin. Holla!

yes you can use prop as a ‘kick start’ or whatever you want to call it. I would run dbol with it too…actually I’d probably just run prop/dbol for the cycle and ditch the Test E but there is no harm in running that if thats what you have.

I’m not much a believer in using AAS for anything preworkout. Get it in your system and keep levels as stable as possible. Yes half lives and such come into play and possibly you can use dbol and other fast acting drugs to increase your workout but if you need that aggression and whatnot to lift then your different than I as I ‘get up’ for any of my workouts lol.

I believe that SERM tapers are necessary in helping prevent an estro rebound…I know I would certainly taper an AI because of this. Also keep in mind that some SERMS can act as estrogens I believe so adding in high doses and just stopping can throw your hormones for a whack. lol One of the vets would probably clarify this better than I.

You’re not keen on the whole “I feel the dbol kickin’ in bra” phenomenon? Personally, 35-50mg preworkout of an arm day guaranteed painful pumps and stellar training sessions.[/quote]

yea but 100mg/day drol guarantees awesome pumps, etc and it doesn’t matter how close proximity I take that 100mg to the workout. I never really noticed enough to matter taking it pre-workout .vs. just the same time daily. Some days it was pre workout some days it wasn’t. I’m more stickler of if I take my pills at 10am then I try and take em at 10am ED. lol [quote]

I could forsee the use of prop,dbol as a great kickstart coupled with test e used as the main compound in a 8-10 weeker. [/quote]

I definitely agree.

17

[quote]The Phantom wrote:
I personally think HCG is useless here other than the fact that it will help with keeping your nuts up to size. So mainly aesthetics I suppose. Thats your call tho.
[/quote]

Doesnt atrophied balls make function impossible? I thought that was the reason keeping the boys big was important

18

[quote]soontobeIFBB wrote:
The Phantom wrote:
I personally think HCG is useless here other than the fact that it will help with keeping your nuts up to size. So mainly aesthetics I suppose. Thats your call tho.

Doesnt atrophied balls make function impossible? I thought that was the reason keeping the boys big was important[/quote]

to a degree caused by maybe a 20wk cycle, but most likely not an 8 weeker.

I also don’t fully understand hcg yet to make truly educated responses on it, but I know that it can mess with FSH and/or LH levels making your testes functional, but the signal from your brain to the testes is now affected.

I guess pretty much anything has a reaction both pos and neg in the body being we are ultimately dealing with negative feedback loops lol

like I said tho I haven’t researched HCG enough to give any real good advice on it. From what I do know it is just my opinion that it is most likely not needed for an 8 week cycle.

19

Thanks for the input phantom…I have access to Prop also but just never thought of doing ED…I suppose the benefits are more stable blood levels and faster affects. If I went all Prop would I still use any kind of frontload? As for the D-bol much more than 4-5 weeks for me and the negatives outweigh the positives.

Thanks for your input,

[quote]The Phantom wrote:
I personally think HCG is useless here other than the fact that it will help with keeping your nuts up to size. So mainly aesthetics I suppose. Thats your call tho.

Might I suggest using Propionate instead of Enanthate? I know some dislike injecting ED and some get problems with prop but if you can handle it then it will kick in much faster than Enanthate. Or pick up some prop and use it at the beginning with the Enanthate until the Enanthate kicks in. Maybe the first 3-4 weeks.

It is your call, but I think you could run the Dbol longer if you’d like too.

I am a believe in only using as much AI as needed instead of going overboard with it, but you seem to know how you respond to increased E and I think your dosing is good to go with the adex.

I think you should increase your PCT and do a 40/40/20/20 imo…certainly nothing wrong with what you have, but I personally believe in being a little more aggressive in regaurds to pct.

my .02[/quote]

20

[quote]The Phantom wrote:
soontobeIFBB wrote:
The Phantom wrote:
I personally think HCG is useless here other than the fact that it will help with keeping your nuts up to size. So mainly aesthetics I suppose. Thats your call tho.

Doesnt atrophied balls make function impossible? I thought that was the reason keeping the boys big was important

to a degree caused by maybe a 20wk cycle, but most likely not an 8 weeker.

I also don’t fully understand hcg yet to make truly educated responses on it, but I know that it can mess with FSH and/or LH levels making your testes functional, but the signal from your brain to the testes is now affected.

I guess pretty much anything has a reaction both pos and neg in the body being we are ultimately dealing with negative feedback loops lol

like I said tho I haven’t researched HCG enough to give any real good advice on it. From what I do know it is just my opinion that it is most likely not needed for an 8 week cycle.[/quote]

Full suppression from a test cycle will occur in the third week, leaving 5 weeks where the balls are not being used and making atrophy likely in those who are affected (some it seems more than others).

I would use it at 150iu EOD or 250iu 3x/wk from week 4 till 8.
It will not be enough to cause a negative feedback, unlike the 1500iu - 5000iu doses used frequently in the recent past, and use of an AI will assist that too of course in reducing aromatization, but it will be enough for the leydig cells to secrete enough testosterone to keep size AND function up - meaning there is one less part of ‘The Axis’ to recover in PCT.
By ‘The Axis’ i of course mean the Hypothalamus-Pituitary Testicular Axis.

Then a PCT of a SERM a few days after the last injection of test prop will allow the Hypothalamus and pituitary to begin to secrete the GnRH and FSH and LH respectively for the testes to produce testosterone and begin spermatogenesis.

There is of course the conern of desensitizing the Testes to the LH signal, as this is exactly what the HCG provides, but i believe it has been shown that in the doses i mentioned (around 600-750iu/wk in divided equal doses) this is not a problem.

I remember that even a dose of 50iu/day has been helpful for one individual - but this is a subjective matter and only of one person i believe.
I remember him thinking that upping the dose to 100iu a day wouldnt (in his body) have caused any suppression or desensitization more than the 50iu gave but would increase the benefit of the drug.

JMO

Brook