Cut/Bulk Cycle Opinions

Pharma / TRT
1

I’am planning on starting my first real cycle in the coming weeks. I’am currently 6ft 191 lbs at 9% BF. My goal is to get my BF% down to as low as 4-6% before starting any kind of bulk. So ideally I want to finish the last 2 weeks of my cut diet, by starting a cycle.

From 4-6% BF I want to gain some mass, whilst sticking to a clean bulk diet. Overall though I don’t want to gain much if any fat during this process and come the end of the cycle I ideally want be shredded at the same BF% 4-6% (if possible). How does this look?

Week 1: Test 250mg x 2 + Winstrol 50mg ED
Week 2: Test 250mg x 2 + Winstrol 50mg ED

-----------(Finish cut diet and switch to clean bulk)-------

Week 3: Test 250mg x 2 + Dianabol 25mg ED
Week 4: Test 250mg x 2 + Dianabol 25mg ED

Week 5: Test 250mg x 2
Week 6: Test 250mg x 2 + Anavar 40mg ED
Week 7: Test 250mg x 2 + Anavar 40mg ED
Week 8: Test 250mg x 2 + Anavar 40mg ED
Week 9: Test 250mg x 2 + Anavar 40mg ED
Week 10: Test 250mg x 2 + Anavar 40mg ED

PCT:

Week 12: Nolvadex 20mg ED/Clomid 150mg ED
Week 13: Nolvadex 20mg ED/Clomid 150mg ED
Week 14: Nolvadex 20mg ED/Clomid 150mg ED
Week 15: Nolvadex 20mg ED/Clomid 50mg ED
Week 16: Nolvadex 20mg ED/Clomid 50mg ED

2

You are doing this backwards. You will leave yourself more room for error and give yourself a better chance of achieving your goal if you gain the weight you want now, at your current bf level, THEN maintain that weight for some time THEN start cutting calories to get down to the bf level you desire.

Even if you only want to be 200 pounds at 4% it would be better to bulk to around 220lbs around 10% (with AAS or without, up to you) then cut back down.

If you are at 9% now and you expect to get down to 4-6% IN 2 WEEKS with 500mg T and 50mg of winstrol you will fail. 2 weeks simply isnt enough time to effectively drop that much weight.

Can you explain why you think it’s a good idea to get to 4% bf before starting a bulk? Also explain why you think it is possible to gain muscle weight while keeping your bodyfat at that level.

3

^^ solid advice.

OP - if you’re truly sitting at single digits bf, you should be plenty insulin sensitive and primed for some great gains. But if you’re not that interested in packing on sheets of LBM, why even bother with AAS.

4

Bonez you back is looking massive in the pic. You still weighing in at 180?

5

[quote]Game Time wrote:
Bonez you back is looking massive in the pic. You still weighing in at 180?[/quote]

Thanks man

I just updated my stats after I weighed myself this morning, actually. I took that pic to send to a friend and was surprised so I decided to step on the scale

/hijack

6

I just answered this in a PM (before realizing this was on the board) which I will post here in case anyone is interested in my response…

Well, you have 10 weeks of oral steroids which is sort of a bad idea…even though anavar is supposed to be milder on the liver it’s still not a good idea to run any orals that long. You’re much better off to mix in a secondary injectable to help you acheive your goals than to change around orals.

Anavar is not a very strong drug either so you won’t get a whole lot of bulking help from it. Personally I don’t like orals (they all bloat me up and give me various issues)…I’d way rather just throw in another injecable…you just fill it in the same pin and inject it at the same time.

Letrozole (femara) or Anastrozole (arimidex) are probably your best options for on cycle estrogen control…nolva and clomid just block the E receptor, they don’t do anything to actually reduce the amount of E you have in your system.

Generally on cycle I start with about 0.25mg adex/d and will increase it if I am getting any gyno symptoms. I’ve gone as high as 1mg/d but started getting joint pains and crashed libido at that level.

Looking at your plan… it might take more than 2 weeks to reach your goal of cutting down to <6% and it would be hard to stay lean while gaining maximum mass possible…why not start your cycle with the goal of adding as much lean mass as possible and finish it cutting?

As long as you keep your diet pretty clean and use an anti-e you should be able to keep gains pretty lean for the first half and then when you cut down in the second half it’ll look a hell of a lot more impressive.

An ideal cycle for your goals would use tren but it is a tricky drug with really strong sides…it’s about the only drug where you can bulk and cut at the same time but prob best to wait and use it on a later cycle.

I’d recommend something like this (assuming use of adex throughout and continuing right through PCT):

Week 1: Test 250mg x 2 + Deca 150mg x 2
Week 2: Test 250mg x 2 + Deca 150mg x 2
Week 3: Test 250mg x 2 + Deca 150mg x 2
Week 4: Test 250mg x 2 + Deca 150mg x 2
Week 5: Test 250mg x 2 + Deca 150mg x 2
Week 6: Test 250mg x 2 + Deca 150mg x 2
Week 7: Test 250mg x 2 + Masteron Enanthate 150mg x 2
Week 8: Test 250mg x 2 + Masteron Enanthate 150mg x 2
Week 9: Test 250mg x 2 + Masteron Enanthate 150mg x 2
Week 10: Test 250mg x 2 + Masteron Enanthate 150mg x 2

Week 11 and 12: off

PCT:

Week 13: Nolvadex 40mg ED
Week 14: Nolvadex 40mg ED
Week 15: Nolvadex 20mg ED
Week 16: Nolvadex 20mg ED

You’d eat like a horse and life heavy for the first 6 weeks (some sloppy cals and no cardio) and then at week 7 you start dieting and add in some cardio to drop the BF.

I like low carb when dieting on gear…the mental exhaustion I get from going low carb naturally is almost non-existant one some test and masteron and as long as you are keeping estrogen in check you will lean out fast as long as you diet and train right.

If you really want to use an oral I would throw in dbol from week 3-7 at about 30mg/d.

Good luck.

FG

7

only other piece of advice I would give is to get some caber tabs and use 0.5mg 2x/w while on the deca

8

another PM…I thought these were all good questions so I am adding this to the public post…

Grim Jack wrote:
Excellent advice, I appriciate that. I was actually thinking about using Deca, but I’ve heard that it’s highly suppressive and shouldn’t really be used for a first cycle.

I’ve decided though that since it’s my first real cycle to drop all the orals and stick to 500mg of Test once per week and extend the cycle to 12 weeks. The only exception is that I’m going to add 50mg of oral Winstrol for the final 4 weeks.

If you don’t mind I have a few more questions:

  1. What do you think roughly is the most amount of calories I can go over maintanence, to keep my gains as lean as possible, with little to no fat gain.

  2. Is it possible to do light intensity cardio, first thing in the morning fasted, whilst on the bulk to keep fat gain down? (i.e. 1hr of walking pace 3.5 MPH, heart rate under 120 BPM)

  3. At the end of the cycle there is a 2 week period before PCT starts, is it possible to continue on a keto style cut or should I be eating at maintanence at this point?

  4. How long after PCT, before I can go on a cut again?

  5. Based on my cycle and doeses, if I can’t get hold of Letrozole or Anastrozole, will 20mg of Nolvadex ED for the entire during of the cycle be ok?

  6. Is HCG really important based on the during/doses of my cycle?

Deca is a good drug, it just needs to be used correctly…if you finish the cycle with 4 weeks of masteron then your system will have lots of time to clear the deca. I think given your level of experience the cycle I outlined is a good one and should acheive your goals. Masteron is similar to winstrol but without the joint issues and liver toxicity. Personally I love it but only in small quantities (200-300mg/w is my ideal dose, anything more and I get too tight and cramp up). It gives a really good look at the end of a good cycle though…lean, dry, and hard as fuck.

You need to inject test (assuming it is enth) more than once a week. 2x/w would be ok. 10 weeks is a good length, most find that gains really drop off around the 8-10 week mark.

maybe 1000 extra cals is what you should shoot for. Just make sure it is fairly clean cals (no junk, no fried shit, etc) and you should be fine given the fact you are already very lean. you just need to make sure you are keeping estrogen down to a reasonable level and the fat gain will be minimal.

You’re best to do minimal cardio during your bulk and then hit the morning cardio during your cut but it’s up to you…might just mean you are sacrificing some gains cause your body is burning too much fuel to really build.

it’s fine to stay low carb though your PCT but you need to make sure you are above maintenance cals and eating sufficient fat for your test to rebound. You should check out the test taper, most guy on here are very big fans of it and it seems to work really well for a first cycle.

Wait about 2 months or so after the end of your cycle before trying to cut…if you cut too soon you will lose a lot of the mass gained…you can get it back but it takes time…for some reason it is a lot easier for your body to get back to somewhere it has already been but who wants to take the time to do that when you can just keep it in the first place. You should expect to lose a bit of weight just from the departure of the extra water and glycoden in your muscles (I usually drop about 10lbs post cycle but I retain a lot of water on gear)…most find they drop around 7-8lbs so when you are tracking your gains you need to assume that much is water weight and will go when everything is said and done regardless of what you do.

Nolva is not an acceptable means of estrogen control. If you are in the US you (err…I mean your lab rat) can use Chemone, their adex is reasonable. There are other reseach sites that offer similar products, you really don’t need pharm grade if you can’t find it.

HCG would be a nice addition. If you are using it I would run it at 250iu E3D from about week 3-10. This would speed up recovery a lot and make it reasonable to use a nolva PCT. It’s best to maintain your nuts vs try to shock them back to life at the end of the cycle.

9

That’s some nice advice there.

THe cycle looks pretty good. But I feel it is best to minimise “dead time” during the cycle. e.g week 11-12 waiting period.

I like the idea of using fast acting oral/injectable at the end of the cycle, so PCT can start asap. Also from personal experience, I do not gain anything after week 8. I suppose extra 2 week may “solidify” my gains. BUt it also makes recovery a bit more difficult. So I might as well stop at week 8.

I propose the following cycles for your consideration.

Week 1: Test 200mg x 2 + Deca 100mg x 2
Week 2: Test 200mg x 2 + Deca 100mg x 2
Week 3: Test 200mg x 2 + Deca 100mg x 2
Week 4: Test 200mg x 2 + Deca 100mg x 2
Week 5: Test 200mg x 2 + Deca 100mg x 2
Week 6: Test 200mg x 2 + Deca 100mg x 2
Week 7: Test Prop 50mg + Masteron Prop 30mg
Week 8: Test Prop 50mg + Masteron Prop 30mg
Week 9: Test Prop 50mg + Masteron Prop 30mg
Week 10: Test Prop 50mg + Masteron Prop 30mg

HCG week 3-10 250iu eod
week 11.5-week 14 standard nolva and /or clomid

Frontloading is optional, but not recommended. As this is your first cycle, you don’t know how you wuold react to the drugs. I think it’s better to lower the dosages slightly.

I honestly think a multi-drug bulk + cut stack is not suitable for a first time user. It’s too complicated, and if you get hit with sides, you wounldn’t know which drug that is causing it. So I’d like to suggest two cheap and effective alternatives.

option 1.

week 1 - 6 Test prop 120mg EOD

week 1 - 6 Adex 0.25-0.5mg EOD + Optional Proviron 50 ED, or 100mg when AI is not avaliable

week 1 - 6 nolva 10mg ED to help lipid profile

week 7 - 8 Adex 0.125-0.25mg EOD

Week 7.5 -10 standard nolva pct

Drug required 3 x 10ml UGL Test Prop@100mg/ml. Adex + nolva from research company of choice.
price = cheap :slight_smile:

option 2.

Week 1-6 Test C 200mg E3D OR Test E 250mg 2x

Week 7-8 Dbol 30mg ED

week 1-8 Aromasin 5-15mg ED + optional Proviron 50 ED or 100mg if AI is not avalialbe

week 1-8 nolva 10mg ED for lipid profile

week 9-9.5 Aromasin taper

Week 8.5-11.5 Standard Nolva PCT

This is my favourate cycle, using avaliable human grade gear. It gives you a couple of weeks of extra growth, plus you get to try 2 different drug. By switching to DBOl (or any other strong fast acting drug) for the last two weeks, you can start PCT almost immediately. So HCG is not really needed here. This saves costs and make things easier.
In my area, aromasin/adex/letro/ etc are hard to come by and hellish expensive. So sometimes I would subsitute them with proviron as a mild anti-aromatise.

10

I was actually thinking of this, any modifications?

Week 1: Test 250mg x 2
Week 2: Test 250mg x 2 + Arimidex 0.5mg E3D
Week 3: Test 250mg x 2 + HCG 250 x2 + Arimidex 0.5mg E3D
Week 4: Test 250mg x 2 + HCG 250 x2 + Arimidex 0.5mg E3D

Week 5: Test 250mg x 2 + HCG 250 x2 + Arimidex 0.5mg E3D
Week 6: Test 250mg x 2 + HCG 250 x2 + Arimidex 0.5mg E3D
Week 7: Test 250mg x 2 + HCG 250 x2 + Arimidex 0.5mg E3D
Week 8: Test 250mg x 2 + HCG 250 x2 + Arimidex 0.5mg E3D

Week 9: Test 250mg x 2 + Masteron 150mg x2 + HCG 250 x 2 + Arimidex 0.5mg E3D

Week 10: Test 250mg x 2 + Masteron 150mg x2 + HCG 250 x 2 + Arimidex 0.5mg E3D

Week 11: Test 250mg x 2 + Masteron 150mg x2 + HCG 250 x 2 + Arimidex 0.5mg E3D

Week 12: Test 250mg x 2 + Masteron 150mg x2 + HCG 250 x2 + Arimidex 0.5mg E3D

Week 13: Arimidex 0.5mg E3D
Week 14: Arimidex 0.5mg E3D

PCT:

Week 14: Nolvadex 40mg ED
Week 15: Nolvadex 40mg ED
Week 16: Nolvadex 40mg ED
Week 17: Nolvadex 20mg ED
Week 18: Nolvadex 20 mg ED

11

sort of a long cycle doing it that way which will make recovery harder and gains in the later weeks will be limited. you would prob be better to split it up into 2 shorter cycles (of say 6-8 weeks).