Cursing in Movies and Children

Off Topic
21

[quote]Steel Nation wrote:
SteelyD wrote:
Do any of you actually have kids?

  1. Zakk is a GOD.

  2. I have a 7 year old. I taught him that swearing is bad even though people do it a lot in the movies and real life. I did this because I don’t want him to swear in front of his grandparents, great grandparents, teachers, etc. This makes me a hypocrite but I don’t really care. That’s part of being a parent. When he’s old enough to understand what a hypocrite is, then he’ll be old enough to swear “responsibly” and we can get into when it is and isn’t ok to swear. That’s too much for him to handle at 7 though.

For a long time he would scold me (actually anyone and everyone) when I swore. It was annoying, and I explained to him that kids don’t correct adults and that all he has to do is not swear himself. He stopped scolding me.

  1. I’ve noticed there is much less cursing in big movies these days. The Dark Knight, Iron Man, Terminator Salvation, etc. all had MUCH less swearing than their counterparts in the '90s. Hell, even John McClane got censored in Die Hard 4.[/quote]

  2. Yes.He.Is

  3. I have the mouth of a deranged trucker. However, I don’t curse when my kids are in earshot. In fact, in my house, the kids are not allowed to use the phrase “Shut Up” or the word “Hate”, amongst others. They’re better for it because they actually have to think about what they’re expressing rather than just getting off with a cliche phrase.

We don’t have a TV streaming 24/7. In fact, I get 2 channels: FOX and PBS (of all things). We don’t watch TV as a family. We have a DVD player hooked up to the TV for movies.

Our friends are similar in their philosophy. It also happens that our kids (us and the similar parents) are some of the highest level readers and math in their classes. Imagine that 3 hours of television being spent reading and working with the kids-- or, having them play outside or playing games.

  1. We don’t think it’s “cute” when kids on TV are portrayed as cool because of their badass attitudes and smartass comments. In fact, it gets old. We know when our kids see something at a friend’s house or learn something in school (my 6 year old learned to flip the bird the other day).

TV has more influence on your kids than you can possibly imagine. This, from a movie buff and entertainment geek-- and I haven’t really watched any significant TV for the better part of 15 years or so. I would go so far as to say that kids movies and shows are full of unacceptable language and attitude. It’s easy to tell which kids are products of the TV.

I can’t believe that people rely on TV to teach kids how to act/react to life situations or exert unfettered influence on their thinking. No wonder the country is in the shape it’s in.

I worked with a woman who, when I said I don’t have a television in the house, asked me with the most confounded look “What on Earth do you do with your kids?”. We don’t even like to drop them off at the grandparent’s house because the default ‘babysitting’ technique is to plop them down in front of the tube.

/rant
They live in the greater Philly TV broadcast area. Wanna know how to frighten the shit outta little kids? Let them sit in front of the news for an hour. They don’t need that at single digit ages.

22

[quote]stokedporcupine8 wrote:
Gregus wrote:
stokedporcupine8 wrote:
Gregus wrote:

Im asking because I noticed in America there is this definitive thing about teaching kids certain things by a certain age. I come from a place where kids can do advanced math and calculus in elementary school. Chemistry is hardcore by the 5th grade.

While I’m sympathetic to the first part, I call complete and utter bullshit on the second unless you have some serious hedging and qualifying to do.

Explain

I want you to explain what you mean by “advanced mathematics” and “calculus”. Generally when someone says advanced mathematics they are referring at least to various branches of mathematics that are heavily into proof theory and set theory–So stuff like group theory and modern algebra, algebraic and geometric topology, etc. You of course can throw things like analysis or analytic number theory in there too, even though in their introductory presentations they aren’t too set theoretic. As for “calculus”, when someone mentions this I assume they are talking about a more rigorous limit calculus where the normal definitions of derivative and integral are given along with techniques for finding these things and of course lots of applications–gradient, curl, etc.

Unless you take me to the classroom where your average 9-10 yr old 5th grader is sitting and doing these sorts of things, I will not believe it. I do think your average middle school child–12-15ish–is able to handle many proof concepts, and that there are even probably a good number of children in this age range who can handle set theoretic concepts. It’s certainly fairly common for younger high school students–15-16–to do good parts of calculus and advanced mathematics, as I have described above.

Your AVERAGE 9-10 year old doing these things? Bullshit… complete and utter. The occasional exceptional one who can? Sure, there are cases.

Now, as to why I say this… (I can’t believe I’m arguing this point.) I actually have a hard time believing that the average 9-10 yr old can even conceptually handle many algebraic concepts–let alone set theoretic concepts (Don’t get me started on “new math”). I say this both because the anecdotal evidence seems to support it–there are reasons why the average 5th grader doesn’t get much beyond fractions–and also because the neuroscience and psychology people seem to lend much support to the idea that the average 5th graders mind hasn’t developed enough to understand the sort of abstract concepts that are involved in advanced mathematics.

So, I have explained, now you explain. [/quote]

My friend you have never sat in a class room in Estern Europe, Places Like Poland or in a Russian middle school. You would be shocked at the concepts they throw at the kids and what their minds suck up. American kids can;t do it, because they don;t learn to think early enough. The home upbringing is to blame.

In my 4th grade class in Poland we did Geometry, algebra and calculus by the 5th grade. 5th grade calculus was even done entirely in Roman Numerals just for fun and to stimulate thinking. Mandatory 2nd language by the 5th grade also. Long Poem memorization starting in the 2nd grade, weekly, with full recital in front of the class for a grade.

Go to Japan and you’ll that and more. We have some of the easiest schools in the world. Imagine my feeling when i got here by 5th grade and sat in on them starting compound fractions. lol.

Now admittedly that “advanced math” thing was more in reference to the math concepts though in relation to their age and in comparison to our domestic programs. I did not mean to imply that it’s math of the truly advanced type.

23

We’re pretty much the same as you, Steely D (except I watch a REAL news network… lol).

My son is now 16, is very well behaved, NEVER watches TV (he’s always busy with his own music compositions, or personal science projects). He went to a private school through 8th grade, so race was never an issue with him, fashion trends and drugs were non-existent, and he never learned the major swear words (but our low-life neighbors’ kid taught him “fuck” when he was 8).

And like Steel Nation said, my kid used to scold me for my very rare swear slip-up. He also scolded me on the rare occasion I had a drink of alcohol.

It’s sometimes hard for those of you who don’t (yet) have kids to understand all that we go through as parents.

24

[quote]HerbertNL wrote:
The way I see it, the problem lies not so much with cursing in itself as with parents not teaching their kids proper behavior. There are so many ongoing arguments like this, often in the media, such as ‘letting kids watch violent movies’ or ‘letting kids play violent videogames’. Is it okay or not?

Personally, I’ve watched violent movies and played violent games when I was young. I watched Robocop when I was under 10 I think (remember the scene where he gets shot to pieces - that was pretty bad) and have been playing videogames since the first Nintedo was released. Anyway, I don’t go around beating people up or going on killing sprees. Why? Because I had parents that actually took the time to teach me values and proper behavior, rather than parking my ass in front of the TV and hoping I’d turn out alright. Kids will be fine even if they are exposed to ‘extreme behavior’ as long as they are taught how to deal with it. Same goes for cursing - you can have your kid watch a movie where people curse, but make sure you teach him/her not to be one of those douchebags that puts ‘fucking’ in front of every noun.

That being said, those movie and videogame ratings aren’t there for no reason. I am NOT saying people should be completely careless when it comes to picking entertainment for their five year old girl. But they should use some common sense and don’t forget to do some actual parenting once in a while. [/quote]

X2! Don’t let T.V./Movies/video games raise your kids. My 2 oldest have been watching horror movies and programs with cursing in them for a while. However, I utilized common sense and don’t expose them to certain aspects until they were mentally ready to understand the difference.

My kids know if they say a curse word at home or I hear they said or did something at school or wherever, Dad or Mom is coming with the beat down. Just like father did for me, I am doing for my kids. I was more afraid of my parents and the consequences than i was the drug dealers/gangs in Chicago. My parents were not afraid to expose me to real life, but I understood the difference between real and T.V. and what you should do.

25

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
We’re pretty much the same as you, Steely D (except I watch a REAL news network… lol).
[/quote]

I don’t watch any network news. Our ‘local’ FOX news broadcast is actually affiliated with CBS (same people read news on both networks)-- go figure that one!

Even so, our ‘local’ news covers ALL of Maine and NH. A couple murders a year. A lot of fires and a lot of weather :wink:

26

What ticks me off is the swearing brings nothing to the movie, it’s just swearing for the sake of swearing. On top of that, so many of these movies that are loaded up with bad language are clearly made for children.

27

I wouldn’t let my kids watch Fairly Odd Parents on Nickelodeon because I saw them modelling the retarded characters on the show.

I will let them watch some movies with bad language like the Die Hard movies because they have 3 or 4 eff bombs and then the rest of the movie is pretty mundane with clear cut roles as to who the good guys are and who the bad guys are.

I kind of take things on a case by case basis. I wouldn’t let my 9 year old watch Hancock because of language and sexual innuendo and for the fact it looked like a shitty movie.

All 3 boys are honor roll to straight A students that read a lot and don’t get in trouble for the record.

28

[quote]LankyMofo wrote:
In what country is the AVERAGE 5th grader doing calculus? [/quote]

In Europe you “may” not be College material if you can’t. In America everyone goes to college or can go to college. So i can understand how this is mind blowing to you.

29

[quote]on edge wrote:
What ticks me off is the swearing brings nothing to the movie, it’s just swearing for the sake of swearing. On top of that, so many of these movies that are loaded up with bad language are clearly made for children.[/quote]
Because thats the personality of the character they are playing.

30

In 6th grade, by best bud called me a nigger loud enough for the entire class and teacher to hear.

My friend and I are both white.

This is what happens when kids pick up bad words they don’t know the meaning of. He took some shit for it hahaha.

31

[quote]Gregus wrote:
LankyMofo wrote:
In what country is the AVERAGE 5th grader doing calculus?

In Europe you “may” not be College material if you can’t. In America everyone goes to college or can go to college. So i can understand how this is mind blowing to you.

[/quote]

May not be college material if you can’t do calculus by the 5th grade? With geniuses like that I would have expected every country in Europe to be so far ahead of America as far as technology goes that they would have already solved the world’s oil crisis. You mean these geniuses haven’t done that yet?

32

[quote]Gregus wrote:

My friend you have never sat in a class room in Estern Europe, Places Like Poland or in a Russian middle school. You would be shocked at the concepts they throw at the kids and what their minds suck up. American kids can;t do it, because they don;t learn to think early enough. The home upbringing is to blame.
[/quote]

I have never been in an eastern European classroom and I don’t need to to know what young children are capable of. Trust me, I know quite well that young children (under 10) generally have much more potential then either the average American parent or our educational system takes advantage of.

That is not my point of contention, which is that your characterization that young children can do “advanced mathematics and calculus” is highly overblown or in need of heavy qualification.

Depending on what you mean by “geometry and algebra” is this entirely believable, but that’s what I asked you, what EXACTLY did you do? They do geometry and algebra to some extent in American elementary school too. As for Calculus, you definitely still owe explanation here. The fact that you claimed that “5th grade calculus” was done “entirely in Roman numerals” tells me your either completely full of shit, or that what you mean by “calculus” is that they just taught you some basic concepts about area.

We still haven’t established what “that” is yet… Besides, no one’s saying we don’t have some of the easiest schools in the world.

[quote]
Now admittedly that “advanced math” thing was more in reference to the math concepts though in relation to their age and in comparison to our domestic programs. I did not mean to imply that it’s math of the truly advanced type. [/quote]

Ah, now here is the hedging and qualifying I knew there had to be. Given this sort of hedging your claims are probably true, I just don’t understand why you overstated your case so much.

to to OP: sorry for the hijack.

33

[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
I have a friend at work who has 2 younger kids. He was saying how he bought them the Goonies and never realized how much cursing was in it. He probably let them watch it, but he didn’t let them see Transformers because he heard there was some cussing.

Now maybe it’s just me, but it’s just words. Why such the fuss? I grew up watching R movies with loads of bad stuff in it, I turned out half decent. Even my friend is a stand up guy.

Why do people get in such a fuss about “offensive” language. I mean they’re just fucking words.

what say you? [/quote]

If you think words are inconsequential, why should anyone read/listen what you type/say?

34

This thread needs some George. He gave lessons on the word “fuck”.

35

[quote]LankyMofo wrote:
In what country is the AVERAGE 5th grader doing calculus? [/quote]

He’s talking about the Country of Mensa, where only geniuses go to school and the peasants are slaves, because genius man is so smart.

Or Soviet China.

36

[quote]Gregus wrote:
LankyMofo wrote:
In what country is the AVERAGE 5th grader doing calculus?

In Europe you “may” not be College material if you can’t. In America everyone goes to college or can go to college. So i can understand how this is mind blowing to you.

[/quote]

I’ve worked a lot with europeans in my field and what your saying is beyond true. Introducing a concept and making it a plug and chug exercise is not doing calculus. The 2nd language thing made me laugh, most people learn english as a 2nd language, so as an english speaking person what other MAJOR language would we teach in america?

Also, pretty much anyone can go to college around the world if they put in the time and effort. We just make affording it easier… Though a bachelors degree in engineering from a german university is deffenitly more on par with a masters from a US school, but it also takes the same amount of time to get a masters here as it does a bachelors there so its not really a suprise…

37

[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
Why do people get in such a fuss about “offensive” language. I mean they’re just fucking words.

what say you? [/quote]

I say once you and your fiance tie the knot and push out a few kids that this is how I predict your domestic scene to be:

The scene is a typical middle-class suburban kitchen. Mrs. jehovasfitness (mjf) is prparing dinner in the kitchen.

Enter jehovasfitness (jf) stage left:

jf: Hi honey. I’m fucking home.
mjf: Fucking fantastic. (they kiss) How was your goddam day?
jf: Unfucking believable. Drowsky fucking tried to steal one of my shit bag clients and Suggs dicked me over at lunch when the bastard fucking claimed not to have any cash.
mjf: Those dicks. I’m sorry you muthafucking had to put up with that shit. Sit down. I’ll get your fucking dinner. Kids! Get your goddam asses up here and wash your fucking hands for dinner.

Enter Jehovasfitness Jr. (jfj) and his younger sister Sally (s):

jfj: fuckin’ A Daddy’s home!
s : AWWWWWWWWWWW FUCKING RIGHT !!!

They both run to give their goddam dad a welcome home hug

jf: Smells fucking great in here honey. What the fuck is for dinner?
mjf: the best goddam pot roast you ever ate you son of a bitch.
jfj: i hate fucking pot roast!
s: me too ! Goddam it!
jf: hey…kids…come on…you’re gonna hurt the bitches’ feelings…apologize!
jfj: sorry mom…I don’t hate your fucking pot roast
s: sorry
jf: that’s better you little cunts…now…let’s eat.

38

Just to add to this school debate going on: a friend of mine did a year in the US when she was 15 or 16. That would be High School, I guess? She said that it was ridiculously easy to get straight A’s. That’s second hand information though, obviously.

I can sadly attest to the fact that almost any fucking dumbass can go to college here and get some bullshit bachelor degree. Europe, US… I don’t think there can be all that much of a difference, really. There are smart kids and dumb kids everywhere, and obviously there are a lot of smart professionals in every field being educated in the US.

lol, I always had this image of Russian schools as being very strict for some reason, and that everybody there were math geniuses and chess wizards. Now I’ve had my illusions shattered, I’ve worked and gone to school with 4 of them up until now, and they were all bloody stupid. haha

Funny how a few encounters can change your prejudice about an entire country.

39

Sen say believe it or not that would be pretty close to what childhood was like for me. My parents did not finish HS and were from the “poor” side of town, I wonder if you’re form the poor part swearing is some form of empowerment?.. Using the F bomb in between every other word was normal to me until when I was in 5th grade math class… TS (The Savage)

TS: … murmurs to himself… "I don’t f… get it?
Teach: Pardon me TS?
TS: now frustrated “I don’t fucking get it, what the fuck am I suppose to do again?”
Teach: “Go to the principal’s office young man, this moment!”
TS: “Shit! I didn’t anyfuckingthing!”
Teach: “That’s enough and I won’t tolerate anymore cursing, now move it!”

TS gets to the principal’s office waiting… Principal tells him to come in. Principal informs TS that he is going to call his father now and let him know what happened in class today.
TS: Says to under his breath to himself “I’d like to fucking know too.”

Principal contacts father and explains what TS said in class, turns red and then hangs up the phone. Principal then tells me to return to class and to never use the f word again as it makes me sound ignorant.

I discovered over the course of my school life what other words you shouldn’t say…

When I got home that day I asked my Dad what he said.

Principal:“Mr. TS I want to inform you that your son cursed in class today.”
Dad: “What do you mean? He cursed at the teacher?”
Principal: “Not exactly, he was having difficulty with a lesson and cursed.”
Dad: “Did the teacher find out what he was having problems with?”
Principal: “Well no, not yet because he is in my office now…”
Dad: Interrupts the conversation…“FUCK! You call me at work for some shit like this? So you’re telling me he still doesn’t fucking understand the lesson? Jesus Christ I have work to do here, fuck deal with it! Call me with some fucking emergency next time!”
Principal: â??Thank you I’ll speak with your son"

So growing up with dumbass parents I still realized that cursing is not “The” form of communication and I have to tell you sometimes when I’m at meetings and discussions get heated I have to literally think of what I want to say to remain professional. Fuck! My parents screwed me on this and yes when my kids were young they would swear around them all the time even if I asked them not too. My wife rarely swears her parents swore maybe once or twice since I’ve known them. My daughter doesn’t swear she finds it an ignorant form of communication, however my son will throw around the odd curse word however it is not a habit though.

40

[quote]The Savage wrote:
Sen say believe it or not that would be pretty close to what childhood was like for me. My parents did not finish HS and were from the “poor” side of town, I wonder if you’re form the poor part swearing is some form of empowerment?.. Using the F bomb in between every other word was normal to me until when I was in 5th grade math class… TS (The Savage)

TS: … murmurs to himself… "I don’t f… get it?
Teach: Pardon me TS?
TS: now frustrated “I don’t fucking get it, what the fuck am I suppose to do again?”
Teach: “Go to the principal’s office young man, this moment!”
TS: “Shit! I didn’t anyfuckingthing!”
Teach: “That’s enough and I won’t tolerate anymore cursing, now move it!”

TS gets to the principal’s office waiting… Principal tells him to come in. Principal informs TS that he is going to call his father now and let him know what happened in class today.
TS: Says to under his breath to himself “I’d like to fucking know too.”

Principal contacts father and explains what TS said in class, turns red and then hangs up the phone. Principal then tells me to return to class and to never use the f word again as it makes me sound ignorant.

I discovered over the course of my school life what other words you shouldn’t say…

When I got home that day I asked my Dad what he said.

Principal:“Mr. TS I want to inform you that your son cursed in class today.”
Dad: “What do you mean? He cursed at the teacher?”
Principal: “Not exactly, he was having difficulty with a lesson and cursed.”
Dad: “Did the teacher find out what he was having problems with?”
Principal: “Well no, not yet because he is in my office now…”
Dad: Interrupts the conversation…“FUCK! You call me at work for some shit like this? So you’re telling me he still doesn’t fucking understand the lesson? Jesus Christ I have work to do here, fuck deal with it! Call me with some fucking emergency next time!”
Principal: â??Thank you I’ll speak with your son"

So growing up with dumbass parents I still realized that cursing is not “The” form of communication and I have to tell you sometimes when I’m at meetings and discussions get heated I have to literally think of what I want to say to remain professional. Fuck! My parents screwed me on this and yes when my kids were young they would swear around them all the time even if I asked them not too. My wife rarely swears her parents swore maybe once or twice since I’ve known them. My daughter doesn’t swear she finds it an ignorant form of communication, however my son will throw around the odd curse word however it is not a habit though.[/quote]

Lmao, that sounds like my dad. He and my brother would curse a lot when I was younger, it was more or less socially acceptable here. My dad caught religion, but me and my brother still curse a lot. My father also saved my life when I was born, by telling the doctor he would rip his head off if he didn’t get to work saving me right away. My father knew what was wrong, seeing as my older brother had the exact same symptoms when he was born, the doctor was a stubborn old fuck who had a different opinion.

Good on your dad for telling that principal to fuck off. lol