I’m sure a lot of guys here love this show, but as conservatives from Barry Goldwater to Sam Brownback have been saying, the culture matters, in fact probably more than government policy does.
http://www.newyorker.com/printables/fact/070219fa_fact_mayer
Interesting article. I have never seen the show.
It seems some of the posters here (as well as many MSM commentators) think the US government does what Jack Bauer does.
People blur reality and TV far too much. Kind of a sad commentary in and of itself.
The whole emphasis on the ticking timebomb scenario is misplaced. It is all a ticking timebomb. If our interrogators cannot get info to find the terrorists it does not matter if the bomb will blow in in an hour or a week. Either way the bombs are going off.
I also take the comments from the experienced interrogator with a grain of salt. He is NOT going to tell people the truth if he uses torture successfully or not. He will always deny he uses it.
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
Interesting article. I have never seen the show.
It seems some of the posters here (as well as many MSM commentators) think the US government does what Jack Bauer does.
People blur reality and TV far too much. Kind of a sad commentary in and of itself.
The whole emphasis on the ticking timebomb scenario is misplaced. It is all a ticking timebomb. If our interrogators cannot get info to find the terrorists it does not matter if the bomb will blow in in an hour or a week. Either way the bombs are going off.
I also take the comments from the experienced interrogator with a grain of salt. He is NOT going to tell people the truth if he uses torture successfully or not. He will always deny he uses it.
[/quote]
He didn’t deny he uses it:
?In Iraq, I never saw pain produce intelligence,? Lagouranis told me. ?I worked with someone who used waterboarding??an interrogation method involving the repeated near-drowning of a suspect. ?I used severe hypothermia, dogs, and sleep deprivation.
I saw suspects after soldiers had gone into their homes and broken their bones, or made them sit on a Humvee?s hot exhaust pipes until they got third-degree burns. Nothing happened.? Some people, he said, ?gave confessions. But they just told us what we already knew.
It never opened up a stream of new information.? If anything, he said, ?physical pain can strengthen the resolve to clam up.?
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
People blur reality and TV far too much. Kind of a sad commentary in and of itself.
[/quote]
This is a dangerous trap that Americans have fallen into. Most aren’t even cognizant of the division of pop-fiction and fact. To top this we have mainstream news that systematically feeds the pseudo-legitimacy of pop-culture by providing 24x7 “news” coverage of it. Americans are addicted to entertainment and will do whatever necessary to distract their attention from reality–whether they realize it or not. We have even gone to the level of deluding our selves that we prefer reality by instituting the ever ubiquitous “reality” TV programming. Media, for most purposes, only exists for the commercialization of merchandise which is used to grow our hyper-consumption based economy.
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
People blur reality and TV far too much. Kind of a sad commentary in and of itself.
This is a dangerous trap that Americans have fallen into…[/quote]
This is a worldwide thing, not just Americans.
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
This is a dangerous trap that Americans have fallen into…
This is a worldwide thing, not just Americans.[/quote]
Don’t be stoopid. Everyone nose Mericans is dumber and more gulliver than ever1 else in tha werld. Them there polls dun told me.
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
People blur reality and TV far too much. Kind of a sad commentary in and of itself.
This is a dangerous trap that Americans have fallen into…
This is a worldwide thing, not just Americans.
[/quote]
That’s funny. I didn’t see too many televisions in the third world countries that I’ve visited and the ones I did see only broadcasted State mandated programming and BBC. Besides this American programming is still shit. Considering we’re supposed to be the “best” country on the planet it’s pretty pathetic that we allow ourselves to be manipulated by it.
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
People blur reality and TV far too much. Kind of a sad commentary in and of itself.
This is a dangerous trap that Americans have fallen into…
This is a worldwide thing, not just Americans.
That’s funny. I didn’t see too many televisions in the third world countries that I’ve visited and the ones I did see only broadcasted State mandated programming and BBC. Besides this American programming is still shit. Considering we’re supposed to be the “best” country on the planet it’s pretty pathetic that we allow ourselves to be manipulated by it. [/quote]
It has been my experience that third worlders that cannot afford TV’s are even less aware of world events than the average Jerry Springer fan.
It is quite funny that the shit American programming is the most popular around the world.
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
It is quite funny that the shit American programming is the most popular around the world.[/quote]
In sowe countries its the only programing.
Think about it,
What’s cheaper; Producing shows, news & movies or stealing satellite?
[quote]brucevangeorge wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
It is quite funny that the shit American programming is the most popular around the world.
In sowe countries its the only programing.
Think about it,
What’s cheaper; Producing shows, news & movies or stealing satellite?[/quote]
I need to start stealing satellite instead of paying for cable…
[quote]brucevangeorge wrote:
What’s cheaper; Producing shows, news & movies or stealing satellite?[/quote]
It pays for itself ten-fold when used exclusively to sell merchandise. Of course if we’re talking about the 3rd-world there isn’t any extraneous money to spend on superfluous mercahndise so it is futile to advertise in the first place.
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
It has been my experience that third worlders that cannot afford TV’s are even less aware of world events than the average Jerry Springer fan.
[/quote]
I believe this is relative. I wouldn’t call the average American informed about world events–and this is with access to nearly “free” media. You’d be surprised that in third world countries people talk about issues and know what is going on in their own countries and take advantage of having access to information when they have it.
I don’t think the typical American can even name the congress person representing their district. It’s kind of nice being able to live in a country where we don’t even bother to inform ourselves about our own leaders–leaders which we get to pick.
The other problem is that the media itself is largely ignorant of the subject matter of a lot of stories – particularly stories on science or about other countries.
[quote]BostonBarrister wrote:
The other problem is that the media itself is largely ignorant of the subject matter of a lot of stories – particularly stories on science or about other countries.[/quote]
Too true.
[quote]BostonBarrister wrote:
The other problem is that the media itself is largely ignorant of the subject matter of a lot of stories – particularly stories on science or about other countries.[/quote]
Very true.
But I’m curious to hear from people that have read the article in this thread, and what they think about 24’s popularity and its effect on torture policy. I care as much about what most people are watching, because most people watch absolute garbage on TV (case in point “Everybody Loves Raymond” was the most popular sitcom in America while Arrested Development got cancelled). But when supposedly responsible people like the Wall Street Journal’s editor are saying they wished Jack Bauer could run the CIA, it makes me worry about what’s happening to conservative values, a phrase that used to mean something.
[quote]BostonBarrister wrote:
The other problem is that the media itself is largely ignorant of the subject matter of a lot of stories – particularly stories on science or about other countries.
[/quote]
That, and or they are very exclusive about what information they provide.
Their depiction of science as fact is particularly disturbing to me because the average person isn’t equipped to know “good” science when they see it or not.
[quote]GDollars37 wrote:
But when supposedly responsible people like the Wall Street Journal’s editor are saying they wished Jack Bauer could run the CIA, it makes me worry about what’s happening to conservative values, a phrase that used to mean something.[/quote]
Interestingly enough, well to me anyway… I found this advert for CIA recruits being run on the adult swim (cartoon network) slot.
They figure the best place to find the untapped resource of the creative and brilliant yet idle minds of todays society, is in the womb of adult swim, incubating in the juices of imagination…perhaps. Maybe there is hope yet for the CIA !
[quote]Molotov_Coktease wrote:
Interestingly enough, well to me anyway… I found this advert for CIA recruits being run on the adult swim (cartoon network) slot.
They figure the best place to find the untapped resource of the creative and brilliant yet idle minds of todays society, is in the womb of adult swim, incubating in the juices of imagination…perhaps. Maybe there is hope yet for the CIA !
[/quote]
I think to get a security clearance you can’t have more than a few uses of weed in your past and nothing “harder”. That rules out the entire Adult Swim audience.