Culturally Fat

Off Topic
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[quote]HeavyTriple wrote:

[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
Orion- you are wrong… within that past 30 yrs the US population has apparently lost their willpower, :wink: I keed. I’m with ya dude[/quote]

Wouldn’t ya know it, people are consuming a couple hundred more calories per day than they did 30 years ago. You can propose sugar as a contributing factor in they “why,” but you can’t write off an extra 200+ calories a day and blame something else. People eat too much…fix that and then we’ll see if sugar is as bad as everyone thinks.[/quote]

Why do they consume a couple of hundreds of calories more?

Taubes point still stands, calorie counting CANNOT WORK.

In a diet, yes, in bulking, yes, maintenance, no way.

You cannot do it, if you were even slightly off you would either gain or lose weight quickly.

Again, look at overfeeding studies.

You can feed some people 10000 calories a day and they dont give a fuck.

None whatsoever.

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[quote]anonym wrote:

[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
Really? so all those people in teh 70s that didn’t have manual labor jobs, were driving in droves to the gym? I think not.[/quote]

“In the early 1960’s almost half the jobs in private industry in the U.S. required at least moderate intensity physical activity whereas now less than 20% demand this level of energy expenditure. Since 1960 the estimated mean daily energy expenditure due to work related physical activity has dropped by more than 100 calories in both women and men.”

Graphs are courtesy of “DECLINING RATES OF PHYSICAL ACTIVITY IN THE UNITED STATES: What Are the Contributors?”
http://www.annualreviews.org.libproxy.edu/doi/pdf/10.1146/annurev.publhealth.26.021304.144437

If anyone needs an explanation as to why Figure 6 is in there, let me know.[/quote]

Which brings me back to:

What is the arrow of causality.

Do people move less because they eat more or do they eat more because they move less.

The point is, you dont know.

You cannot possibly know.

And it still does not explain diabetic toddlers, because if you answer is that they do not have a factory job I am afraid that I might find it lacking.

All sorts of things, starting with explanatory power.
edited-

edited again: the second sentence actually makes sense if you accept my paradigm, if you dont, use “gain weight” instead of “move”.

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if anyone actually cares, Zoe Harcombe has some interesting ideas about calories in/calories out and the idea where did the 3500 cals per lb of body fat come from.

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[quote]sardines12 wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:
Well, come to think about this, what actually does pisses me off even more is when people attribute obesity to a lack of willpower.

In my opinion this is as worthless as attributing tuberculosis to demonic possession.

If you such an insulin response that you shuttle your calories immediately in your fat cells and then cannot get it out due to a still elevated insulin level you will eat more and move less.

What other choice do you have?

[/quote]
Your choices are to eat more and move less. [/quote]

And with what energy are they going to exercise.

Where will it come from?

You know, if your laptop really, really wanted to it could run for weeks on a charge, but, fat and lazy as it seems to be…

We need more disciplined batteries.

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Coffee? Spike? 5 hour energy?

I know that’s where I got the energy to get through Grad school and workout regularly. Granted I haven’t made a dissertation on the subject lol.

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[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
if anyone actually cares, Zoe Harcombe has some interesting ideas about calories in/calories out and the idea where did the 3500 cals per lb of body fat come from.[/quote]

Link?

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Not sure I’d be able to post a link, as in the past it was moderated out.

that said, perhaps check out Underground Wellness Podcast hosted by Sean Croxton, he interviewed her. Very fascinating IMO.

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[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
Orion- you are wrong… within that past 30 yrs the US population has apparently lost their willpower, :wink: I keed. I’m with ya dude[/quote]

The MAIN reason: For most of recent human history we made our living performing back breaking labour. Now everyone works in an office, sits at a desk and watches tv at home.

You didn’t need to exercise recreationally because working on a farm 7 days a week would burn enough calories off you. Heck, just to maintain your weight you had to eat Paula Deen type dishes.

[/quote]

Gargl.

If you are a child, or enter puberty or pregnancy or prepare for hibernation for our ursine participants, you EAT MORE BECAUSE YOU GROW.

Either vertically or horizontally.

Meaning, we have excellent arguments for the hypothesis that the more energy you will require, the more you will eat.

Would anyone argue that people eat more in puberty or pregnancy because they lack willpower?

Does anyone argue that the different fat distribution between the two sexes are not due to biological reasons but willpower?

Could I have tits if I really, really wanted them and worked hard enough?

Well, maybe I could, but lets not divert our attention from the main point, we know that fat accumulation and fat distribution is to a large degree governed by hormones, why do we suddenly pretend like it is not if someone gains weight who is neither pregnant nor adolescent?

In all other cases it is, but in this SHAZAM!!!, willpower!

Why?

Because it makes people who are naturally lean and tend to work of excess calories in either heat or movement feels superior.

Normally I would not care, because human narcissism is more or less an invincible opponent, BUT if this whole dynamic leads to ostracizing people because of their weight and to give them advice that is bound to keep them in their assigned place as a social punching bag I am not even really upset.

Because, there is humanity for you.

But I feel like pointing it out, because, I prefer to display my delusions of superiority in this fashion instead of bashing people who have no fucking clue why they get or got fat.

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What’s your solution the issue? Are you saying behavioral modifications can’t help the issue?

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Actually, the “could I grow tits” was more or less a throw away line, but you all know that if I took estrogens I would accumulate fat in the chest area, right?

Whether I wanted to or not.

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[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
What’s your solution the issue? Are you saying behavioral modifications can’t help the issue? [/quote]

I am saying behavioral modifications can help the issue but if your diagnosis is automatically fat lazy bastard syndrome the behavior you tend to encourage is less than optimal.

If you get to a point where you can say that this, this and that, hormonically speaking, is the source of your excess fat accumulation and if you do A,B and C it will stop we are on another level.

Because telling people that they suck does not help them but you, and if you want to solve the problem it is not about you.

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Something like some sort of testing that can help determine the particular behaviors and possible hormone therapy interventions required?

I don’t think anyone disagrees with that, but considering how woefully behind preventative medicine is due to there being so little money in it, it’s pretty much up to individual to find out for themselves to figure what’s wrong.

Generally, if after following good diet and exercise choices and trying out different kinds of diets is when people go in to get their hormones checked. My understanding is that there’s a bit on that in the testosterone replacement threads. I know that thyroid issues can wreak havoc too. But how many people actually have those kind of severe issues?

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[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
Something like some sort of testing that can help determine the particular behaviors and possible hormone therapy interventions required?

I don’t think anyone disagrees with that, but considering how woefully behind preventative medicine is due to there being so little money in it, it’s pretty much up to individual to find out for themselves to figure what’s wrong.

Generally, if after following good diet and exercise choices and trying out different kinds of diets is when people go in to get their hormones checked. My understanding is that there’s a bit on that in the testosterone replacement threads. I know that thyroid issues can wreak havoc too. But how many people actually have those kind of severe issues?

[/quote]

It is more complicated than that, because you can develop “hormonal issues” because you are fat.

Meaning, discerning obesity from its causes is really a bitch.

I dont know, so far all I can offer is this:

. Low Carb diets work better in insulin resistant clients/patients/ whatever.

. Calories do matter, once you have taken blood sugar out of the equation it really does.

. to quote Thomas Sowell though, you gotta have a sense of proportion, and I have no sense of proportion when it comes to insulin vs ASP, ASP alone without ASP, Insulin with ASP, hell, I dont know.

It might be that anyone can store mountains of fat without insulin, it might be that it is next to impossible.

. nicotine causes an increase in blood sugar. I kid you not it does. Ever wondered why it is linked to diabetes and why diabetes is linked to CHDs?

. If you really want to be humbled look for the simplified chart of human biochemistry. If you find it and take a long hard look at it you might find that you have no idea what is going on WHICH IS GOOD.

. Because, unlike those who think they know, you might shut up and listen. To patients, clients , whatever.

. Sorry, almost missed the most obvious answer:

30% to 50% of all Americans are insulin resistant.

< insert Craig Ferguson :ooooowhhhhhh:" here…>

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[quote]orion wrote:
If you are a child, or enter puberty or pregnancy or prepare for hibernation for our ursine participants, you EAT MORE BECAUSE YOU GROW.[/quote]

No – you grow because you eat more.

We eat more during these periods because caloric surplus is a prerequisite for optimal growth. I say “optimal” because while one might continue to grow taller or the fetus will continue to develop, this will come at the expense of development/maintenance elsewhere as the body will be diverting its limited resources to what it feels are the most important issues at that time.

Your body might switch on/amp up the genetic machinery that drives this growth, which will manifest as, amongst other things, a drive to eat more, but if you do not supply your body with the blocks it needs to construct the new mass, no new mass can be built.

To say “we eat more because we grow” implies that the mass appears out of thin air, at which point we feel compelled to eat in order to accommodate it.

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[quote]anonym wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:
If you are a child, or enter puberty or pregnancy or prepare for hibernation for our ursine participants, you EAT MORE BECAUSE YOU GROW.[/quote]

No – you grow because you eat more.

We eat more during these periods because caloric surplus is a prerequisite for optimal growth. I say “optimal” because while one might continue to grow taller or the fetus will continue to develop, this will come at the expense of development/maintenance elsewhere as the body will be diverting its limited resources to what it feels are the most important issues at that time.

Your body might switch on/amp up the genetic machinery that drives this growth, which will manifest as, amongst other things, a drive to eat more, but if you do not supply your body with the blocks it needs to construct the new mass, no new mass can be built.

To say “we eat more because we grow” implies that the mass appears out of thin air, at which point we feel compelled to eat in order to accommodate it.[/quote]

That is not the point.

They go through hormonal changes and that is why they eat more.

Period,.

First hormones, then weight gain.

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[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
Something like some sort of testing that can help determine the particular behaviors and possible hormone therapy interventions required?

I don’t think anyone disagrees with that, but considering how woefully behind preventative medicine is due to there being so little money in it, it’s pretty much up to individual to find out for themselves to figure what’s wrong.

Generally, if after following good diet and exercise choices and trying out different kinds of diets is when people go in to get their hormones checked. My understanding is that there’s a bit on that in the testosterone replacement threads. I know that thyroid issues can wreak havoc too. But how many people actually have those kind of severe issues?

[/quote]

When it comes to insulin resistance A LOT.

Which, as I have mentioned before is actually no small feat, yet they managed, effortlessly.

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How is this not obvious? Yeah, SOME people have serious insulin problems and therefore have a very hard time not being fat. The VAST MAJORITY of people, and I daresay the majority of obese people, DO NOT have that problem. It’s not coincidence that most fat people eat like crap, and lots of it. Friend of mine claims he can’t lose weight…claims he eats healthy…says he exercises hours per week, etc etc.

Thing is, I’ve seen him lose 30-40 lbs before…then he went back to his old habits, and gained the weight back. But he’ll swear up and down he’s incapable of losing weight, that it’s a medical issue; despite the fact that he can and has lost weight when he was actually doing what he needed to be doing…eating less, and exercising. People are delusional though. A small serving of food to them isn’t the same as a small serving to you. They somehow “forget” about the liter of soda they drank that day. They won’t mention the 12 pack they drank that weekend.

So yeah, SOME people have a legitimate medical problem that’s very difficult to control. I also personally know people like that, and it’s obvious they are not fat due to lack of effort, but have serious health issues NOT caused by themselves. They are also in the tiny minority.

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tons of people have insulin problems, and while they eat like crap, it’s the crap food that causes the insulin problem.

I’m not saying I buy this whole theory, but I tell ya, it makes some pretty good sense and is worth entertaining the idea. I at least think to blame this on the person is flawed. Again, there are some lazy people out there that eat like crap.

There are also a ton of people that exercise regularly, try to “eat healthy” and struggle to lose the weight.

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