Crowd Beats Passenger to Death

[quote]entheogens wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Indeed, I’m simply following your example, but with Islam as my focus instead of your US/Israel theme. .

Sloth, I have not kept track of what you have written about Muslims but it occurs to me that Lixy’s point is that you are critical of muslims en bloc, instead of criticizing a certain group of Muslims. He is saying that he does not like US foreign policy but is not making generalizations about American people.

I dont know if Lixy is right or not in accusing you of that. Is he?

The KU Klux Klan calls itself a Christian organization. They can cite passages out of the Bible to justify slavery, etc (agreed most of it is in the Old Testament). Should we therefore call all Christians racists as a result?

[/quote]

You have not kept track of a lot of things if this is what you come up with. If you come to duke it out with Sloth get your facts strait before you do because he will call you out on the carpet.

[quote]Sloth wrote:
Indeed, I’m simply following your example, but with Islam as my focus instead of your US/Israel theme. Each of us is attempting to point out what has been the greater factor to the middle-east’s (Asia and Africa, too) problems.

Your post history speaks for itself and it’s obvious you place the majority of the blame on the US and Israel. I simply disagree. Islam is to blame.[/quote]

You don’t seem to get it. Follow carefully.

Criticizing foreign policy of the US has nothing to do with criticizing American citizens. Just like one can be critical of Israel without necessarily being anti-Semitic.

You on the other hand, go to great lengths to discredit Muslims and portray them as savages. You don’t stop at foreign policy. You delight in relating every single piece of news you could find to smear Islam. Just look at how many times you and your buddies write the snarky “religion of peace” in association with some violent act. How do you not see that it’s not foreign policy you’re criticizing? Rather, it’s an attack on all Muslims that does nothing but inflame the existing hate on both sides.

I blame the US for the chaos in Iraq, that’s certain. But I know that the majority of Americans favor a withdrawal of the troops. So, you can’t say that I’m criticizing Americans. I’m criticizing the foreign policy of the current administration. Same goes for Israel.

I have no doubt whatsoever that the majority of Israelis are in favor of a peaceful solution to the lingering conflict. You see, I believe in the inner good of people regardless of their race or faith. You criticize Muslims en masse by suggesting that Islam is a barbarous religion.

[quote]entheogens wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Indeed, I’m simply following your example, but with Islam as my focus instead of your US/Israel theme. .

Sloth, I have not kept track of what you have written about Muslims but it occurs to me that Lixy’s point is that you are critical of muslims en bloc, instead of criticizing a certain group of Muslims. He is saying that he does not like US foreign policy but is not making generalizations about American people.

I dont know if Lixy is right or not in accusing you of that. Is he?

The KU Klux Klan calls itself a Christian organization. They can cite passages out of the Bible to justify slavery, etc (agreed most of it is in the Old Testament). Should we therefore call all Christians racists as a result?

[/quote]

I’ll ask again. Why stop at the actions of a nation? Why should I feel ashamed for pointing out the WIDESPREAD violence and oppression stemming directly from the practice of Islam? And no, not from just a “few bad apples.” But from an extremely disturbing large part of the muslim population.

If the goal is to blame the US for the ME’s (regions of Africa/Asia, also) woes, why shouldn’t ideologies born from Islam be examined? Why not point out oppression and brutality aimed at religious minorities and women in the name of Islam? Why shouldn’t one examine the spread of Islamic separatist groups? Should I stay silent on these issues so I don’t offend muslims?

As far as the KKK argument. Come on, one has to have a sense of proportion here.

[quote]lixy wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Indeed, I’m simply following your example, but with Islam as my focus instead of your US/Israel theme. Each of us is attempting to point out what has been the greater factor to the middle-east’s (Asia and Africa, too) problems.

Your post history speaks for itself and it’s obvious you place the majority of the blame on the US and Israel. I simply disagree. Islam is to blame.

You don’t seem to get it. Follow carefully.

Criticizing foreign policy of the US has nothing to do with criticizing American citizens. Just like one can be critical of Israel without necessarily being anti-Semitic.

You on the other hand, go to great lengths to discredit Muslims and portray them as savages. You don’t stop at foreign policy. You delight in relating every single piece of news you could find to smear Islam. Just look at how many times you and your buddies write the snarky “religion of peace” in association with some violent act. How do you not see that it’s not foreign policy you’re criticizing? Rather, it’s an attack on all Muslims that does nothing but inflame the existing hate on both sides.

I blame the US for the chaos in Iraq, that’s certain. But I know that the majority of Americans favor a withdrawal of the troops. So, you can’t say that I’m criticizing Americans. I’m criticizing the foreign policy of the current administration. Same goes for Israel.

I have no doubt whatsoever that the majority of Israelis are in favor of a peaceful solution to the lingering conflict. You see, I believe in the inner good of people regardless of their race or faith. You criticize Muslims en masse by suggesting that Islam is a barbarous religion.[/quote]

Blah, Blah, Blah. Please don’t look behind the curtain. After all, we can’t actually focus on the real issue behind the self-destructive nature of far too many “Islamic Nations.”

Again, you focus on US foreign Policy and it’s role. I’ll focus on Islam’s widespread role in oppressing women, religious minorities, apostates, etc. I’ll focus on how it spawns violent separatist groups. I’ll focus on how it spawns terrorism, mass murder of Christians and Animists, a disproportionate belief in the Protocols of Zion, disproportionate holocaust denial, etc.

I’ll focus on how Islam is used to justify muslims killing muslims. You go ahead and ignore it.

There are, of course, some heroic muslims. You are not one of them. You’re essentially a useful pawn for the maddrass, deflecting blame to the US, for what ultimately are the failures of Arabs and muslims. You should spend 95% of your time on here pointing out the ills of the Islamic and Arab world. You should spend the vast majority of your time demanding a vast and wide scale reformation of Islam.

Yet, instead, you spend the vast majority of the time blaming US/Israeli policy. No, you’re not revolutionary. And, your approach will never bring peace, equality, freedom, and coexistence to people living within the majority of the Islamic world.

True Muslim/Arab radicals will. Sadly, they spend a large part of their time just trying to stay alive.

P.S.
Just as a fun mental exercise, imagine doing the following:

Put a anti-Islam/Muhammad bumper sticker on your car in the Sudan, SA, Gaza/west bank, Syria, Iran, Pakistan, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc., etc. Do this, and see just how much human freedom is respected.

Now put an anti-christian bumper sticker…Oh wait, the widespread Darwin fish eating the Christian fish symbol already exists. Or, look at the lampooning of Christ on S. Park and a multitude of other comedy shows.

[quote]lixy wrote:
Who are the savages now?
[/quote]
I am going to go out on a limb and suggest that every element of human society has its “savages”. That was the point of this thread, correct?

[quote]Sloth wrote:
Blah, Blah, Blah. [/quote]

How eloquent!

Here’s where you get lost. I will never defend oppression of women or any other group. You on the other hand, play the apologist for what can only be described as a failed foreign policy.

Got any hard figures to back that up?

Well, that certainly is a first coming from you.

What’s a maddrass?

Ska vi prata Svenska nu?

http://www.jysk.se/index/sovevarelset/madrasser.htm

I do. But is any of the regulars here a hard-line conservative Muslim? I can’t name one.

I support and argue about reforms in Islam with people who’ll oppose that view. Not with American whose only exposure to Islam was thru 9/11.

As long as there’ll be people supporting the war on Iraq, I’m afraid I’ll continue to criticize US foreign policy.

Now, I don’t see what you mean by “blame”. Is it the fact that I attribute part of the responsibility of the deterioration of Iraq on the US? Be specific.

[quote]Just as a fun mental exercise, imagine doing the following:

Put a anti-Islam/Muhammad bumper sticker on your car in the Sudan, SA, Gaza/west bank, Syria, Iran, Pakistan, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc., etc. Do this, and see just how much human freedom is respected.

Now put an anti-christian bumper sticker…Oh wait, the widespread Darwin fish eating the Christian fish symbol already exists. Or, look at the lampooning of Christ on S. Park and a multitude of other comedy shows. [/quote]

You’re again making the mistake of comparing a secular nation to ones that emphasizes the religious component in their constitutions. You’re also comparing a nation that gained independence 3 centuries ago with ones that were liberated a couple of decades back. Nonetheless, let me put down a couple of points.

If you actually ever got out of the US, you’d see that bumper stickers are unique to your culture. That’s not to say that parading a simplistic and narrow minded view on a car doesn’t have a humorous value. But, we’re digressing…

Anyway try this: Get a bumper sticker that says “Allah is great” and see what happens. I recall Jeremy Clarkson and his crew got into a lot of trouble for painting “Man-love rules” and “Country music sucks” on their cars while on a visit to the US. I actually also recall numerous incidents involving Arabic or
Bush-criticizing T-shirts that people were banned from wearing in the “land of the free”.

And for the record, the majority of Arab countries published the cartoons. The editors are alive and well and their publications are still running.

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
I am going to go out on a limb and suggest that every element of human society has its “savages”. That was the point of this thread, correct?
[/quote]

A cookie for Mr. LIFTICVSMAXIMVS.

[quote]Mick28 wrote:
I understand your point. But, I think a better means to make that point would have been been more convincing. [/quote]

Totally agreed. I apologize if I offended anyone.

[quote]lixy wrote:

Look closer. The notion of crime is not unique to America. It’s ubiquitous in the Arab/Muslim world.

Gkhan says: Yeah, no kidding.

Where did you see me mention ethnicity or color of skin? I fail to see why it’s brought up here. Are white people somehow not supposed to celebrate Juneteenth?

I’m stunned by your logic.

Gkhan says: “I didn’t, I was replying to another poster’s comment.”

Muslims don’t have a monopoly over violence.[/quote]

Gkhan asks: Yeah, no kidding once again, whoever said that they did?

If your post was supposed to be sarcastic, no need to get defensive about what I wrote, my post was supposed to be sarcastic as well.

[quote]Lixy wrote:
I blame the US for the chaos in Iraq, that’s certain. But I know that the majority of Americans favor a withdrawal of the troops. So, you can’t say that I’m criticizing Americans. I’m criticizing the foreign policy of the current administration. Same goes for Israel.[/quote]

Gkhan asks: so why write a post about a crime in America as if to prove something.

I’m sure there are crimes that go on in Muslim countries as well.

A random murder is one thing, but to kidnap someone, hold him hostage and cut off his head, and post the video on the internet in the name of your nation, or your religion is clearly another.

What is it exactly you are saying? That there are violent crimes in America so we should all shut up about Terrorism?

We do what we can to curb crime in our country, let’s hope the “moderate” muslims do what they can to curb terrorism in their culture.

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
lixy wrote:
Who are the savages now?

I am going to go out on a limb and suggest that every element of human society has its “savages”. That was the point of this thread, correct?
[/quote]

I believe that you are correct but let me ask: who disputed this?

[quote]Gkhan wrote:
A random murder is one thing, but to kidnap someone, hold him hostage and cut off his head, and post the video on the internet in the name of your nation, or your religion is clearly another. [/quote]

Absolutely!

Invading countries and bombing them into oblivion on a whim fall into the same category.

My post was directed to Sloth who seem to delight in posting random bits.

Terrorism with a capital T. That’s a new one to me.

Terrorism is a plague that should be fought. Dragging religion and smearing a billion and a half people to somehow justify American interventionism is unrelated to terrorism. It’s like relating the KKK to Christianity as entheogens pointed out.

If I were you, I’d start by giving a break to the reefer kids in the block.

I agree about the need to reform a lot of Islamic nations. However, trying to mitigate terrorism and Islam (something Sloth and Tokoya love) only gets the masses to rally around the existing structures, rendering any change close to impossible.

[quote]Gkhan wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
lixy wrote:
Who are the savages now?

I am going to go out on a limb and suggest that every element of human society has its “savages”. That was the point of this thread, correct?

I believe that you are correct but let me ask: who disputed this?[/quote]

Does it matter if something is disputed or not in order to bring it up? Must everything be stated in defense of an argument?

No, I was basically agreeing with you.
I agree with you again.

And I DO NOT agree that ALL muslims are terrorists.

[quote]lixy wrote:

Invading countries and bombing them into oblivion on a whim fall into the same category. [/quote]

Where has this happened? Certainly you can’t mean Iraq, who broke the terms of the treaty signed to end the Persian Gulf War, and had been threatened with attack for over a decade? If I do something having considered it for a dozen years, and I doing something on a whim?

[quote]What is it exactly you are saying? That there are violent crimes in America so we should all shut up about Terrorism?

Terrorism with a capital T. That’s a new one to me. [/quote]

It shouldn’t be. http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/index.html#Attacks

Except, of course, that setting up a Christian theocracy isn’t the stated goal of the KKK.

[quote] We do what we can to curb crime in our country,

If I were you, I’d start by giving a break to the reefer kids in the block. [/quote]

So we can end up as accomplished and dynamic as the Netherlands? No thanks.

This is an absolutely farcical argument. The lack of reform in the Middle East and the prevalence of extremism, middle ages style tyranny, inexplicable poverty, and cultural malaise spills over into the middle of our major cities, killing thousands of innocents (and disrupting the world economy, not incidentally) in the process. We’re supposed to cross our fingers and hope that, after centuries of moving in the exact opposite direction, the bulk of the Arab world is going to suddenly make the necessary reforms? Just take our hits and feel bad? Bullshit.

[quote]ChuckyT wrote:

Except, of course, that setting up a Christian theocracy isn’t the stated goal of the KKK. [/quote]

Nor is this even an apt comparison, but then again, Entheogens is the one that made it.

The KKK is a marginalized terror group - marginalized by whom, you ask? Christians. And others, of course.

Moreover, when the KKK does something awful in the US, they get prosecuted. If an Islamist does something awful in a Muslim country, his victims will be dragged through the streets while throngs of barbarians cheer with bloodthirsty glee.

Lixy wrote: "I agree about the need to reform a lot of Islamic nations. However, trying to mitigate terrorism and Islam (something Sloth and Tokoya love) only gets the masses to rally around the existing structures, rendering any change close to impossible. "

Lixy - why do you have a problem with someone that would want to “mitigate” terrorism? Do you even understand what the word means?

I’m giving you a million exit ramps here, and you continue down your highway of victimhood bullshit…

Did it ever occur to you that you could be against the Iraq war, and also be critical of radical islam? Evidently not.

Anyway, apology accepted.

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
Moreover, when the KKK does something awful in the US, they get prosecuted. If an Islamist does something awful in a Muslim country, his victims will be dragged through the streets while throngs of barbarians cheer with bloodthirsty glee.[/quote]

Yes, and guess what? In responce to the British Knighting Rushdie, Muslims in Pakistan did the Muslim equivalent to Osama Bin Laden today.

http://www.timesnow.tv/Pak_clergy_honours_Osama_in_Rushdie_row/articleshow/2139208.cms

Lixy, your religion reformed yet? No? Might want to spend less time on this forum making dozens of posts critical of the US. You know, so you’ll have more time with that reformation. After all, Hamas (the guys you defend) is shooting folks in hospitals, tossing prisoners off buildings, and firing into crowds of civilians. All in the name of Allah.

Take your blinders off…Islam is by far the Arab’s worst problem. I’ll say it bluntly, in this day and age, your religion is barbaric. Please spend more time reforming it, instead of focusing so much time here on the US. Now, get to work!