I dont even believe that its a question of digestetion of nutrients, I lean more towards the idea that proper bacteria excrete “soothing” chemicals for the colonocytes, and might help decrease the levels of harmful chemicals ingested or produced locally. One could even argue that UC/CD are in part caused by messed up colonic flora in the first place and this could be rebalanced by probiotics setting things straight, but thats just guesses as far as i know. My point is that correct probiotic supplementation could help counter the initial inflammation, since eg. E coli nissle 1917 seems to be equally effective to mesalamine, an antiinflammatory, in some cases of UC.
[quote]Mikael LS wrote:
fmaurice, i disagree. Have a look at Heidin et al, Evidence for the use of probiotics and prebiotics in inflammatory bowel disease: a review of clinical trials. Proceedings of the Nutrition Society (2007), 66, 307â??315. They evidence is not as good for CD as for UC, but it seems to me that there is some benefit to be found. I will read the article you posted when i get the chance and return with comments. At my lab, some work is being done on phenols and either cd or uc, and so far it seems to do something.
BBB: i dont think anyone would argue that eliminating the triggers are vital before anything else is to be done, I am merely suggesting that there might be a benefit from eg. probiotics.[/quote]
Im glad to hear you actually are doing some research on the topic, it needs much more, and it effects more ppl than we realize. Please feel free to post any info to this post or me personally, I’d love to show my gf (diagnosed w crohns at 14) some numbers because she has lost hope w it and “drugs”.
Mikael, interesting perspective on the “cause” for crohns. I do know several studies show that e coli was highly present in some reasearch… as far as bacteria, what do you know/think about MAP (Mycobacterium avium subspecies paratuberculosis) and crohns?
Just bumping this thing since there were a few unresolved questions.
fmaurice: Im not personally working with it (i do cancer stuff), but a guy at the lab does. Have you had a look at the article i refered to?
The hallmark of what i call “messed up colonic flora” is when the balance of bacterial species are skewed, just like when fat people have different flora compared to skinny people. It is however excrutiantingly hard to figure out what is going on in there, because a lot of the bacteria are impossible to culture, and DNA analysis is hampered by contamination issues. There is however a definate flora differences in CD compared to control, MAP being one of the otherwise unusual bacteria. But, what came first - the crohns or the MAP?
I have Crohn’s disease and have recently been through a string of 3 surgeries, with a fourth coming in a month.
I went from 280 to 190 in the course of 4 months, losing nearly all of my muscle in the process. Needless to say, I’ve not yet returned to lifting.
I currently have a temporary ileostomy and was hoping perhaps some TMuscle members have had one as well. What kind of diet worked well for dealing with your ostomy and training? Given the substantial abdominal tissue damage, what kind of lifting program, if any, did you follow?
Bump.
Out of curiosity, is a total colectomy an option for those with severe Crohn’s?
In 2008, I had two golf ball size tumors in my colon along with over 50 polyps (polyposis) all throughout the colon. I met with a colorectal surgeon at the Mayo Clinic and she recommended a total colectomy. Basically, they did the surgery laparoscopically (2 inch incision at the naval), removed my large intestine, and reattached my small intestine to my rectum. 6 weeks later, life was better than ever. Normal bowel movements, no special diet, and as far as I can tell nutrient absorption is fine. Although I do add psyllium husk to my protein shakes to avoid diarrhea. I have gained 50 pounds since the surgery and the gains in the gym have been great.
[quote]JN7844 wrote:
Out of curiosity, is a total colectomy an option for those with severe Crohn’s?
In 2008, I had two golf ball size tumors in my colon along with over 50 polyps (polyposis) all throughout the colon. I met with a colorectal surgeon at the Mayo Clinic and she recommended a total colectomy. Basically, they did the surgery laparoscopically (2 inch incision at the naval), removed my large intestine, and reattached my small intestine to my rectum. 6 weeks later, life was better than ever. Normal bowel movements, no special diet, and as far as I can tell nutrient absorption is fine. Although I do add psyllium husk to my protein shakes to avoid diarrhea. I have gained 50 pounds since the surgery and the gains in the gym have been great. [/quote]
If that was the area of inflammation, possibly.
However, I know it is quite common for the terminal ileum (as in my case) to be the problem site, which makes such an operation a slight bit trickier.
Hey man-
I was dxed with Crohn’s three years ago. I’m meeting with a dietician tomorrow at 11 and my GI specialist on June 2nd to ask this same question. I’m already on tons of prescription-strength vitamins and minerals (Cu, Mg, Zn, VitD, etc), so I’m going to talk with both of them about protein absorption.
You might wanna talk to your GI about where in your tract the inflammation is. If it’s restricted to the colon, it won’t be nearly as big of a deal when it comes to the macronutrients, but if the small bowell/stomach are involved, I’m sure it’s a whole different ballgame.
I’ll let you know what both of them tell me.
[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
… factor in crohns, IBS, UC, etc, then what is it?
BBB[/quote]
Sorry for the double-post, I didn’t see this when I was skimming the thread.
BBB, I think a lot of the confusion is caused by public lack of knowledge about the difference between IBS and IBD. IBS (Irritable bowel syndrome) is a primarily gastrointestinal disease (in both origin and symptoms) and very well might be linked to pesticides, processed foods, etc as you mentioned.
On the other hand, IBD (Inflammatory bowel disease, including Crohn’s and UC) is a totally different animal. It’s believed to be an autoimmune disease, not a GI one like IBS. In IBD, the GI tract is just the unfortunate victim of a haywire immune system, not the problem itself. Most UC/Crohn’s patients are on immunosuppressants (similar to what organ transplant patients use) much more often than they are on Immodium, etc (the ones that IBS patients often find helpful).
I’ve had this conversation with many a well-meaning aunt who thought I just needed a lecture about “avoiding Ramen noodles and Taco Bell!” haha
Fish oil, omega-3s, glutamine, B12 shots, etc are often recommended by IBD specialists, but much more emphasis is placed on pharmaceutical remedies, not dietary ones (for better or worse)