Criticize My First Cycle

Pharma
1

This will be my first cycle. have been planning to do one for a while, was waiting till natural progress stopped, and it finally seems to be slowing/I’m getting impatient.

Stats:
26
6’4
225lbs
~15-17%BF

I lift 2-3xWeek and play sports/cardio 2-3xWeek.
my diet is ok (not always clean).
I put on weight easily.
my BP is a little high (140/80) which is hereditary.
I like long walks on the beach and holding hands.

Goal:
I would like to add lean mass (~15 lbs) and lose fat (~10 lbs). Rather keep moderate gains than get huge and lose it.

Cycle option 1 (simple):
W 1-4 Deca 400mg/w
W 5-6 Winny 25mg ED
W 7-8 Nolva 40mg ED or Clomid 100mg ED

Cycle option 2 (complex):
W 1-4 Test 250mg/w
W 1-4 Deca 200mg/w
W 1-2 dbol 30mg ED
W 5-6 Winny 25mg ED
W 1-6 Nolva 20mg ED if needed
W 7-8 Nolva 40mg ED

legal supps:
ZMA, Fish oil, and Milk thistle throughout.
Alpha Male/Carbolin19 for PCT.

Please let me know what you guys think.

also, are 25 Ga pins big enough?

Thanks for your help in advance.

Furious G

2

I wouldn?t bother with “cycle 1” if I were you. And my only real advice is that instead of using Deca; try something like Trenbolone, if you’re looking for quality strength, and muscle gains. There is some research to support its role on “fat burning” as well. So, taken with Winstrol (which I would take throughout most of the cycle, and not just 1 week) should help to drop your body fat % quite a bit, and harden up your physique.

You never mentioned what type of Test you will be taken, but since it’s 250mg I’ll guess that it’s Sustanon. At this dose, you may not even need Novaldex, but always a good thing to have on hand. Plus, at this dose you may not have to worry as much about water retention, which is certainly something I would avoid if it were already easy for you to gain unwanted weight.

For post cycle therapy, I would defiantly take Clomid instead.

Hope you can find some of this useful.

3

ummmm,i think you need to do some more reading/research…and give this some more thought.

cycle option 1 is poorly structured and thought out. running deca for 4 weeks is a waste, due to its half life, it would barely be kicking in by the time you were coming off it.

cycle 2 would be ok if the “test” is prop and the “deca” is NPP.

it is good to see that you have some understanding of anti-e’s and PCT.

for the goals you have stated, there are much better options than the compounds you have chosen. think about test, tren, winny, var…

start by reading the steroid newbie thread.
http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=354419

then read steroids for dummies.
http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=459487

4

Thanks for your feedback.

Ya, I thought about tren but I have Deca readily available (may even be able to get it perscribed free) and would rather only inject once a week if possible (not scared of needles just don’t want an ass full of scar tissue). This will also kinda be based on what I can get so I need more than 1 option.
also, by W 5-6 I meant week 5 and 6 inclusive.

How about this:

Option 1 (lean mass):
W 1-6 Tren 75mg EOD
W 1-6 Winny 25mg ED
Milk thistle/fish oil/ZMA throughout
PCT
W 7-8 Clomid 100mg ED
W 7-10 Alpha Male/Carbolin19
Is there any point in taking Alpha male with the Clomid?

Option 2 (size):
W 1-4 Sust 500mg/w
W 1-4 Deca 200mg/w
W 3-6 Winny 25mg ED
W 1-6 Nolva 20mg ED only if needed
Milk thistle/fish oil/ZMA throughout
PCT
W 7-8 Nolva 40mg ED or Clomid 100mg ED
W 7-10 Alpha Male/Carbolin19

What do you think?

5

[quote]FuriousGeorge wrote:

How about this:

Option 1 (lean mass):
W 1-6 Tren 75mg EOD
W 1-6 Winny 25mg ED
Milk thistle/fish oil/ZMA throughout
PCT
W 7-8 Clomid 100mg ED
W 7-10 Alpha Male/Carbolin19
Is there any point in taking Alpha male with the Clomid?

Option 2 (size):
W 1-4 Sust 500mg/w
W 1-4 Deca 200mg/w
W 3-6 Winny 25mg ED
W 1-6 Nolva 20mg ED only if needed
Milk thistle/fish oil/ZMA throughout
PCT
W 7-8 Nolva 40mg ED or Clomid 100mg ED
W 7-10 Alpha Male/Carbolin19

What do you think? [/quote]

in cycle 2 your are using sust, which has super long esters in the blend, aswell as deca, which has a long half life…the 4 weeks is NOT long enough for these. sust and deca would need to be administered for 8 weeks at the dosages listed IMO.

cycle 1 is okay. but i think prop should be added in there. tren is very suppressive and you might have some sexual sides running it without some test for 6 weeks.

your PCT plan looks good to go.

6

I have a stupid question.

Because something has a longer half life, why would it work better for longer cycles than short?

Ex: Why would injecting test prop EOD, just a week longer, be better than injecting test enanth once a week and just cutting your last use of it a week shorter than the prop allowing it to clear for PCT?

Week 1-4 prop EOD, then its clear week 5
vs.

Week 1-3 enanth EW, then its also clear week 5, Right?

Does it loose its affectiveness in the 4th week while the prop wouold not?

Thnx

7

That was my thinking (use the long esters early weeks 1,2,3,4 and then the short ones week 5 and 6, then by week 7 when PCT starts they are clear at the same time)…ok one more try at this (all weeks 1-X are including week X).

Option 1 (4 week cycle):
W 1-4 Test prop 75mg EOD
W 1-4 Tren 75mg EOD or NPP 75mg EOD
W 1-4 Winny 25mg ED
Milk thistle/fish oil/ZMA throughout
PCT
W 5-6 Clomid 100mg ED
W 5-8 Alpha Male / Carbolin 19

With Test prop in do I now need to have Nolva on hand?

Option 2 (8 week cycle):
W 1-6 Sust or Test Enth 500mg/w
W 1-6 Deca 200mg/w
W 7-8 Winny 30mg ED
W 1-8 Nolva 20mg ED only if needed
Milk thistle/fish oil/ZMA throughout
PCT
W 9-10 Nolva 40mg ED or Clomid 100mgED
W 9-12 Alpha Male / Carbolin19

How about those two options?

8

I’m going to start a similar cycle to your “cycle 1” in about 2 months, but I’m going to run it longer, and a bit higher mg, with the winny in the last 4 weeks. I think it looks good.

I have always liked Ethanate, and Sust, but for me they never seem to “kick in” until around week 5. It pisses me off, so I always use Prop now.

P.S. I don’t know if you’ve read this already, but Prop hurts like a mother f****R for the first bit. Also, yes you should keep nolvadex on hand just in case, since concentrations will build up very quickly on Prop.

I think you’ve paved 2 decent paths, you just need to decide wich one you want to head down. I think you’'ll get good (yet different) gains with either, but I have a feeling that once you start you’ll want to run it longer then originaly planned.

Also, are you taking oral winstol. Is that why you’re taking milk thistle with your cycle. Just curious.

9

[quote]GathCity wrote:
I’m going to start a similar cycle to your “cycle 1” in about 2 months, but I’m going to run it longer, and a bit higher mg, with the winny in the last 4 weeks. I think it looks good.

I have always liked Ethanate, and Sust, but for me they never seem to “kick in” until around week 5. It pisses me off, so I always use Prop now.

P.S. I don’t know if you’ve read this already, but Prop hurts like a mother f****R for the first bit. Also, yes you should keep nolvadex on hand just in case, since concentrations will build up very quickly on Prop.

I think you’ve paved 2 decent paths, you just need to decide wich one you want to head down. I think you’'ll get good (yet different) gains with either, but I have a feeling that once you start you’ll want to run it longer then originaly planned.

Also, are you taking oral winstol. Is that why you’re taking milk thistle with your cycle. Just curious.[/quote]

No, I didn’t know that about prop.

I am likely going to get enough gear to do two cycles so I would be able to run a little longer if I wanted. i like the idea of doing two shorter cycles (and keeping most of the gains) rather than one long one but i haven’t decided yet. i’ve heard gains are the best with the first cycle so I might change my mind and go with a 10 week and just make sure I do a proper PCT.

Ya, winny would be oral, my liver is prob in decent shape (I keep it on its toes). I would be abstaining from drugs and alcohol during this project to give it a little extra help.

So it would then look like this, please let me know what you think gains would be like with each:

Option 1 (W 1-4 on, 5-8 PCT, repeate for weeks 9-16)
W 1-4 Test prop 75mg EOD
W 1-4 Tren 75mg EOD or NPP 75mg EOD
W 1-4 Winny 25mg ED
W 1-4 Nolva 20mg ED if needed
Milk thistle/fish oil/ZMA throughout
PCT
W 5-6 Clomid 100mg ED
W 5-8 Alpha Male / Carbolin 19

Option 2 (W 1-10 on, 11-14 PCT):
W 1-8 Sust or Test Enth 500mg/w
W 1-8 Deca 200mg/w
W 7-10 Winny 30mg ED
W 1-10 Nolva 20mg ED
Milk thistle/fish oil/ZMA throughout
PCT
W 11-13 Nolva 40mgED or Clomid 100mgED
W 11-14 Alpha Male / Carbolin19

Thanks for your help guys.

Please anyone else add your comments if you have em.

10

Take 50mg of clomid a day throughout the cycle and limit to a couple of weeks of it post cycle. It has a half life of a week so it will keep helping any way for up to a month and if you take it during the cycle you wont have any testosterone production suppression. Its easier to keep your self going then to get your self restarted. Also clomid taken alone can lead two GNRH tolerance, inturn leading to hormone supression once discontinued.

11

so would you take Clomid (to keep nutz) and Nolva (to block Est) during your cycle?

12

[quote]FuriousGeorge wrote:
so would you take Clomid (to keep nutz) and Nolva (to block Est) during your cycle?[/quote]

Usually clomid will get both jobs done itself. In most of your bodies tissues it is an estrogen blocker.

13

i see. so either one alone will do but clomid is better at increasing endogenous test rather than just blocking estrogen.

Thanks again for your help.

14

[quote]Viking69 wrote:
I have a stupid question.

Because something has a longer half life, why would it work better for longer cycles than short?

Ex: Why would injecting test prop EOD, just a week longer, be better than injecting test enanth once a week and just cutting your last use of it a week shorter than the prop allowing it to clear for PCT?

Week 1-4 prop EOD, then its clear week 5
vs.

Week 1-3 enanth EW, then its also clear week 5, Right?

Does it loose its affectiveness in the 4th week while the prop wouold not?

Thnx

[/quote]

Simply because it takes 4-5 weeks for the average person to “feel” Test Enanthate kick in. It took me 6 to know for a fact that it was kicking in. The long esters like Test Enanthate, Nandrolone Decanoate and Boldnenone Undecylenate take weeks to reach effective blood levels, thus making it moronic to use them as a base in a short cycle if you were actually expecting to see worthwhile gains. Keep the short esters for short and the long for long… plain as day.

15

I agree. nandrolone, enanthate test, boldelone take a lot of time to kick in.can be 6-8 weeks.is senseless take them for 4 weeks.

16

Thanks for the help guys.

17

[quote]Jake59 wrote:
Take 50mg of clomid a day throughout the cycle and limit to a couple of weeks of it post cycle. It has a half life of a week so it will keep helping any way for up to a month and if you take it during the cycle you wont have any testosterone production suppression. Its easier to keep your self going then to get your self restarted. Also clomid taken alone can lead two GNRH tolerance, inturn leading to hormone supression once discontinued. [/quote]

Clomid will not reduce supression during a cycle. the only purpose of Clomid during a cycle is as an anti-estrogen, and there are far superior choices for that purpose. shutdown will occur with or without clomid. if you’re worried about nut shrinkage, run an HCG protocol. clomid is best suited for PCT.

[quote]Viking69 wrote:
I have a stupid question.

Because something has a longer half life, why would it work better for longer cycles than short?

Ex: Why would injecting test prop EOD, just a week longer, be better than injecting test enanth once a week and just cutting your last use of it a week shorter than the prop allowing it to clear for PCT?

Week 1-4 prop EOD, then its clear week 5
vs.

Week 1-3 enanth EW, then its also clear week 5, Right?

Does it loose its affectiveness in the 4th week while the prop wouold not?

Thnx

[/quote]

longer esters take more time to build stable blood levels…you would be coming off just as your gear is kicking in.

18

that’s what i though about clomid…

as for the long and short esters i think i get it now.

thanks for your help.

19

I’m running tren/test prop, and I have used letro eod instead of just keeping nolva on hand.

I might be sacrificing a small amount of gains, but the letro as well as 480mg/day of B-6 seems to have kept the titty monster away.

I’ll be starting PCT in a couple of weeks, and as of yet no man boobs. Better safe than sorry for me.