Court Forces Woman to Abort

[quote]Sifu wrote:
Brother Chris you really should have read the article before you posted this and spared us the hyperbole.[/quote]

Lol. You should really read my post before you posted this as you would have been spared the hyperbole. However, if the courts do go through with the decision the title will be apt. One of my predictions about the culture of death (if left unchecked) in America is that it will lead to forced abortions for certain underrepresented and underprivileged citizens.

[quote]Your thread title is very misleading. You make it appear that an abortion has already been ordered when that is not the case.

After reading the article I have learned that the the mother to be is herself an Fetal Alcohol Syndrome baby who was born severely brain damaged. She doesn’t have all her faculties and she is on anti epileptic seizure meds. Since the woman is not capable of making such decisions for herself the court is involved.

I know someone who suffers from grand mal epileptic seizures and has to take anti seizure meds. These are very powerful drugs that target the brain. No one who has all their faculties would just get pregnant while on those meds without consulting with a doctor and making any necessary adjustments to their medication or going off the meds altogether. This is because epileptics have a higher risk of complications from pregnancy and epileptic anti seizure meds can cause severe birth defects.

Given the facts I don’t think it is unreasonable that they would have a hearing to decide what is going to happen. [/quote]

So you’re down with killing innocent people because they have mental problems and severe birth defects.

[quote]optheta wrote:
Why all these guys get so butt hurt over Abortion, odd.[/quote]

Because men are supposed to protect the weak and helpless?

[quote]blake2616 wrote:

[quote]JayPierce wrote:
If I were her lawyer, I would file for a stay of execution. Just to make a point.[/quote]

No doubt. In what society is it okay to force someone to have an abortion?[/quote]

China.

This is incredibly messed up. I was hoping it was hyperbole in that they were having a medical proxy make her decision as she was ruled non compos mentis or something along those lines. The fact that the court may look to overrule not only her wishes (although it sounds like she is incredibly confused by the whole ordeal) but also those of her legal guardians is troubling.

Frankly stated, it is not up to the state to decide if a life is worth living. No matter how troubled/altered the life of the child of this union may be, it is simply impossible to definitively say it will be better off never having lived. Unless there is a clear right or wrong, the state should not intervene. Period. If she is found non compos mentis, give her an appropriate medical proxy and gtfo of her uterus.

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]blake2616 wrote:

[quote]JayPierce wrote:
If I were her lawyer, I would file for a stay of execution. Just to make a point.[/quote]

No doubt. In what society is it okay to force someone to have an abortion?[/quote]

China.[/quote]
You beat me to it.

[quote]JayPierce wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]blake2616 wrote:

[quote]JayPierce wrote:
If I were her lawyer, I would file for a stay of execution. Just to make a point.[/quote]

No doubt. In what society is it okay to force someone to have an abortion?[/quote]

China.[/quote]
You beat me to it.[/quote]

However, it is accepted, nevertheless it is still not okay.

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]JayPierce wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]blake2616 wrote:

[quote]JayPierce wrote:
If I were her lawyer, I would file for a stay of execution. Just to make a point.[/quote]

No doubt. In what society is it okay to force someone to have an abortion?[/quote]

China.[/quote]
You beat me to it.[/quote]

However, it is accepted, nevertheless it is still not okay.[/quote]

And, I just realized that it is accepted in America, as well. I’ve seen plenty of men/families force young girls, especially, to go to abortion clinics as my time as a side walk councilor.

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]JayPierce wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]blake2616 wrote:

[quote]JayPierce wrote:
If I were her lawyer, I would file for a stay of execution. Just to make a point.[/quote]

No doubt. In what society is it okay to force someone to have an abortion?[/quote]

China.[/quote]
You beat me to it.[/quote]

However, it is accepted, nevertheless it is still not okay.[/quote]

And, I just realized that it is accepted in America, as well. I’ve seen plenty of men/families force young girls, especially, to go to abortion clinics as my time as a side walk councilor. [/quote]
Freedom is only relevant when you are capable of standing on your own. When your living conditions/situation depend on someone else, the consequences of exercising that freedom most often nullify it completely.

Yep. But if i understand the infos correctly, that’s not how the Machine look at it here.
It’s not really about deciding if a life is worth living.
It’s about deciding if a dangerous, “contraindicated” pregnancy is worth risking.

I never thought a case like this could go so far in America. It’s horrendous. I don’t know what else to say about it I’m just so flabbergasted.

[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
I never thought a case like this could go so far in America. It’s horrendous. I don’t know what else to say about it I’m just so flabbergasted. [/quote]

Of course it would go this far. You don’t turn human life in the womb into mere disposable property, via pro-choice argumentation, and not expect at least some folks to take those arguments to heart. Basically, he deprived her of a set of keys.

[quote]JayPierce wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]blake2616 wrote:

[quote]JayPierce wrote:
If I were her lawyer, I would file for a stay of execution. Just to make a point.[/quote]

No doubt. In what society is it okay to force someone to have an abortion?[/quote]

China.[/quote]
You beat me to it.[/quote]

Everyone seems to be unaware of India. At least they have developed ICBM’s that can reach Beijing though right?

[quote]Legionary wrote:

[quote]JayPierce wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]blake2616 wrote:

[quote]JayPierce wrote:
If I were her lawyer, I would file for a stay of execution. Just to make a point.[/quote]

No doubt. In what society is it okay to force someone to have an abortion?[/quote]

China.[/quote]
You beat me to it.[/quote]

Everyone seems to be unaware of India. At least they have developed ICBM’s that can reach Beijing though right? [/quote]
You’re right, I had no idea about India’s abortion policies. Looked it up, and found that the child’s father has absolutely no rights in the matter and there is a catch-all condition in the wording of the law that allows virtually any abortion-seeker instant qualification: The psycho-social condition of not being able to accept responsibility…

…Gee, really?

Oh, and they have ICBM’s? Goody!

[quote]kamui wrote:

Yep. But if i understand the infos correctly, that’s not how the Machine look at it here.
It’s not really about deciding if a life is worth living.
It’s about deciding if a dangerous, “contraindicated” pregnancy is worth risking.

[/quote]

My understanding is that the pregnancy isn’t threatening the life of the mother in this instance. The major concern is how her anti-epileptic meds are going to affect the development of the fetus (which is significantly most likely). The only danger as far as I read was to the fetus, not the mother. I could have easily missed something however.

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Sifu wrote:
Brother Chris you really should have read the article before you posted this and spared us the hyperbole.[/quote]

Lol. You should really read my post before you posted this as you would have been spared the hyperbole. However, if the courts do go through with the decision the title will be apt. One of my predictions about the culture of death (if left unchecked) in America is that it will lead to forced abortions for certain underrepresented and underprivileged citizens.

[quote]Your thread title is very misleading. You make it appear that an abortion has already been ordered when that is not the case.

After reading the article I have learned that the the mother to be is herself an Fetal Alcohol Syndrome baby who was born severely brain damaged. She doesn’t have all her faculties and she is on anti epileptic seizure meds. Since the woman is not capable of making such decisions for herself the court is involved.

I know someone who suffers from grand mal epileptic seizures and has to take anti seizure meds. These are very powerful drugs that target the brain. No one who has all their faculties would just get pregnant while on those meds without consulting with a doctor and making any necessary adjustments to their medication or going off the meds altogether. This is because epileptics have a higher risk of complications from pregnancy and epileptic anti seizure meds can cause severe birth defects.

Given the facts I don’t think it is unreasonable that they would have a hearing to decide what is going to happen. [/quote]

So you’re down with killing innocent people because they have mental problems and severe birth defects. [/quote]

There are inherent risks and complications that can happen to a pregnant woman who has epilepsy. A seizure while pregnant can be dangerous to the mother or the baby. Even worse is the anti seizure meds can cause severe birth defects, especially if she is on a high dose at the time of conception. That is why a woman who has all her faculties will consult with her doctor and take necessary steps to minimize the risks to herself and the baby such as reducing or adjusting her medication.

The woman in this case does not have all her faculties and is not capable of making her own decisions. That is why the court is involved. It is an unfortunate situation that would not have happened if the woman had the mental capacity to be a responsible adult.

Here is an article on the dangers of just one of the drugs that are used in combination to prevent seizures. This is why the court has to consider what to do about her pregnancy.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/06/09/us-defects-epilepsy-idUSTRE6586B920100609

(Reuters Health) - The safety of a popular drug for seizures took another hit Wednesday when researchers pinned a handful of major birth defects on the medication.

Earlier research had shown that taking Depakote (valproate) during pregnancy might lower the baby’s IQ and lead to deformities in up to one in ten cases. (See Reuters Health story April 16, 2009.)

Scientists have long known about one of these malformations, called spina bifida, in which the fetus’ spinal column doesn’t close properly. But it was unclear whether the drug was linked to other birth defects, such as heart problems or extra short limbs.

Writing in the New England Journal of Medicine, European researchers report an increased risk of six different birth defects in babies whose mothers took Depakote during their first trimester of pregnancy.

The odds of spina bifida, for instance, were more than 12 times higher in these babies compared to those whose mothers didn’t take epilepsy drugs. Abnormal skull development, cleft palate, holes in the heart’s walls, extra fingers or toes, smaller limbs, and urinary problems were also more frequent in the Depakote group, with odds increased up to seven times.

No I’m not down with killing people because they have mental problems or birth defects. But I do think that having children is a responsibility that should not be taken lightly. Getting pregnant while on a combination of medications that are likely to cause you to have a retarded flipper baby who will have no quality of life and be a burden on everyone who has to pay for it’s care is irresponsible and it’s not fair either.

[quote]Sifu wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Sifu wrote:
Brother Chris you really should have read the article before you posted this and spared us the hyperbole.[/quote]

Lol. You should really read my post before you posted this as you would have been spared the hyperbole. However, if the courts do go through with the decision the title will be apt. One of my predictions about the culture of death (if left unchecked) in America is that it will lead to forced abortions for certain underrepresented and underprivileged citizens.

[quote]Your thread title is very misleading. You make it appear that an abortion has already been ordered when that is not the case.

After reading the article I have learned that the the mother to be is herself an Fetal Alcohol Syndrome baby who was born severely brain damaged. She doesn’t have all her faculties and she is on anti epileptic seizure meds. Since the woman is not capable of making such decisions for herself the court is involved.

I know someone who suffers from grand mal epileptic seizures and has to take anti seizure meds. These are very powerful drugs that target the brain. No one who has all their faculties would just get pregnant while on those meds without consulting with a doctor and making any necessary adjustments to their medication or going off the meds altogether. This is because epileptics have a higher risk of complications from pregnancy and epileptic anti seizure meds can cause severe birth defects.

Given the facts I don’t think it is unreasonable that they would have a hearing to decide what is going to happen. [/quote]

So you’re down with killing innocent people because they have mental problems and severe birth defects. [/quote]

There are inherent risks and complications that can happen to a pregnant woman who has epilepsy. A seizure while pregnant can be dangerous to the mother or the baby. Even worse is the anti seizure meds can cause severe birth defects, especially if she is on a high dose at the time of conception. That is why a woman who has all her faculties will consult with her doctor and take necessary steps to minimize the risks to herself and the baby such as reducing or adjusting her medication.

The woman in this case does not have all her faculties and is not capable of making her own decisions. That is why the court is involved. It is an unfortunate situation that would not have happened if the woman had the mental capacity to be a responsible adult.

Here is an article on the dangers of just one of the drugs that are used in combination to prevent seizures. This is why the court has to consider what to do about her pregnancy.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/06/09/us-defects-epilepsy-idUSTRE6586B920100609

(Reuters Health) - The safety of a popular drug for seizures took another hit Wednesday when researchers pinned a handful of major birth defects on the medication.

Earlier research had shown that taking Depakote (valproate) during pregnancy might lower the baby’s IQ and lead to deformities in up to one in ten cases. (See Reuters Health story April 16, 2009.)

Scientists have long known about one of these malformations, called spina bifida, in which the fetus’ spinal column doesn’t close properly. But it was unclear whether the drug was linked to other birth defects, such as heart problems or extra short limbs.

Writing in the New England Journal of Medicine, European researchers report an increased risk of six different birth defects in babies whose mothers took Depakote during their first trimester of pregnancy.

The odds of spina bifida, for instance, were more than 12 times higher in these babies compared to those whose mothers didn’t take epilepsy drugs. Abnormal skull development, cleft palate, holes in the heart’s walls, extra fingers or toes, smaller limbs, and urinary problems were also more frequent in the Depakote group, with odds increased up to seven times.

No I’m not down with killing people because they have mental problems or birth defects. But I do think that having children is a responsibility that should not be taken lightly. Getting pregnant while on a combination of medications that are likely to cause you to have a retarded flipper baby who will have no quality of life and be a burden on everyone who has to pay for it’s care is irresponsible and it’s not fair either. [/quote]

So you’re cool with killing retarded flipper baby who has no quality of life and is a burden on everyone?

The fact that there is six couples willing to adopt the baby obvious is not an issue, of course.

[quote]Makavali wrote:

Her body, her choice.[/quote]

X 1000.

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Sifu wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Sifu wrote:
Brother Chris you really should have read the article before you posted this and spared us the hyperbole.[/quote]

Lol. You should really read my post before you posted this as you would have been spared the hyperbole. However, if the courts do go through with the decision the title will be apt. One of my predictions about the culture of death (if left unchecked) in America is that it will lead to forced abortions for certain underrepresented and underprivileged citizens.

[quote]Your thread title is very misleading. You make it appear that an abortion has already been ordered when that is not the case.

After reading the article I have learned that the the mother to be is herself an Fetal Alcohol Syndrome baby who was born severely brain damaged. She doesn’t have all her faculties and she is on anti epileptic seizure meds. Since the woman is not capable of making such decisions for herself the court is involved.

I know someone who suffers from grand mal epileptic seizures and has to take anti seizure meds. These are very powerful drugs that target the brain. No one who has all their faculties would just get pregnant while on those meds without consulting with a doctor and making any necessary adjustments to their medication or going off the meds altogether. This is because epileptics have a higher risk of complications from pregnancy and epileptic anti seizure meds can cause severe birth defects.

Given the facts I don’t think it is unreasonable that they would have a hearing to decide what is going to happen. [/quote]

So you’re down with killing innocent people because they have mental problems and severe birth defects. [/quote]

There are inherent risks and complications that can happen to a pregnant woman who has epilepsy. A seizure while pregnant can be dangerous to the mother or the baby. Even worse is the anti seizure meds can cause severe birth defects, especially if she is on a high dose at the time of conception. That is why a woman who has all her faculties will consult with her doctor and take necessary steps to minimize the risks to herself and the baby such as reducing or adjusting her medication.

The woman in this case does not have all her faculties and is not capable of making her own decisions. That is why the court is involved. It is an unfortunate situation that would not have happened if the woman had the mental capacity to be a responsible adult.

Here is an article on the dangers of just one of the drugs that are used in combination to prevent seizures. This is why the court has to consider what to do about her pregnancy.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/06/09/us-defects-epilepsy-idUSTRE6586B920100609

(Reuters Health) - The safety of a popular drug for seizures took another hit Wednesday when researchers pinned a handful of major birth defects on the medication.

Earlier research had shown that taking Depakote (valproate) during pregnancy might lower the baby’s IQ and lead to deformities in up to one in ten cases. (See Reuters Health story April 16, 2009.)

Scientists have long known about one of these malformations, called spina bifida, in which the fetus’ spinal column doesn’t close properly. But it was unclear whether the drug was linked to other birth defects, such as heart problems or extra short limbs.

Writing in the New England Journal of Medicine, European researchers report an increased risk of six different birth defects in babies whose mothers took Depakote during their first trimester of pregnancy.

The odds of spina bifida, for instance, were more than 12 times higher in these babies compared to those whose mothers didn’t take epilepsy drugs. Abnormal skull development, cleft palate, holes in the heart’s walls, extra fingers or toes, smaller limbs, and urinary problems were also more frequent in the Depakote group, with odds increased up to seven times.

No I’m not down with killing people because they have mental problems or birth defects. But I do think that having children is a responsibility that should not be taken lightly. Getting pregnant while on a combination of medications that are likely to cause you to have a retarded flipper baby who will have no quality of life and be a burden on everyone who has to pay for it’s care is irresponsible and it’s not fair either. [/quote]

So you’re cool with killing retarded flipper baby who has no quality of life and is a burden on everyone?

The fact that there is six couples willing to adopt the baby obvious is not an issue, of course.[/quote]

I think that if in the first or second trimester you know that that you are going to produce a flipper baby who is going to spend it’s entire existence as a spastic in a wheel chair with a dribble cup under it’s chin, then maybe the most compassionate thing you can do is terminate the pregnancy.

I do know that there are people who were born whole and healthy who have ended up like that, who want to or have ended it all. The reason why they choose to end it all is because living like that is not living a life, it’s living an existence. An existence of one meaningless day after another waiting for the end, which will be a welcome release.

Do you actually have some data to back up your “fact” that there are six couples willing to adopt a severely deformed baby? I find that hard to believe considering the fact that there are a lot of healthy kids in the adoption system who will never get adopted merely because they are too old and most people only want to adopt babies.

Maybe I’m wrong though. Perhaps retarded flipper babies are in really high demand. I can see how adopting one would give an adoptive couple the opportunity to play the martyr by showing everyone how selfless and compassionate they are by taking on such a burden. The reality however is that forcing someone to live such a meaningless existence so you can show how selfless you are by taking care of them is very selfish.