I am not. Anti vaccine mandate advocates are, by using the exactly same arguments from 35 years ago about seatbelts. Losing their mind over a minor inconvenience, whether it’s a buckle, a mask or a vaccin…sorry, “invasive medical treatment” (btw, are all vaccines “invasive medical treatments” or just this one against covid?)
That’s called the contagion fallacy, because being fat is not contagious. I cannot get fat by sitting in a same room with you.
No, you’re probably deliberately mixing two different types of behaviors - actively harmful to others vs. actively harmful to oneself. You’ve got the public smoking ban for the exact same reason - it’s harmful for others.
And you’ve got this massive road-safety complex, from prohibitive DUI laws and traffic lights to speed limits that saves how many people? Not much, if only 40k Americans die in traffic accidents each year.
Since apparently 900k deaths from covid is acceptable in the name of “freedom” why not abolish all traffic related regulation altogether? Traffic lights, traffic signs, DUI bans, everything? Even if the deaths double, that’s a small price to pay for “freedom”
Yes, all vaccines are invasive. They use needles to inject a drug, which is what makes it invasive. This is why informed consent is so important whether you’re an adult making your own choice or a parent making a choice for your kids. The mandates by their very nature rob you of the ability to meaningfully consent, Meanwhile the censorship and selective messaging robs us of our ability to be truly informed.
One of my good friends had a terrible reaction to the booster, described as a delayed immune response by her allergist. This is a very tough gal who has lost a limb and endured many follow-up surgeries. She’s not anti-vaxx at all, but her reaction to the booster was a real nightmare by her standards.
It was not, by any means, a minor inconvenience.
That’s not how the vaccine mandate argument goes today.
What’s the primary argument shifted to, now that we know that the vaccinated can catch and spread covid as well? Oh yeah, that’s right. The unvaccinated are straining the hospital resources, causing harm to other people.
That same argument applies to each and every behavior I listed. As I’ve said before there is no limiting principle to the line of though that concludes that the threat of covid as it exists today justifies mandating medical treatments. If it’s justified for Omicron, it’s justified for everything I listed.
This is why checks and balances are so important in the United States. It’s an imperfect system, but it keeps the overly ambitious moral busybodies at bay. I realize Europeans have always had a love affair with authoritarianism and the idea that the big strong man can make the bad things go away, but here in the USA we recognize the dangers of that.
Why are seatbelts “just a buckle” and the vaccines mandates are supposedly evil? To quote the 1986 article from above:
‘‘Its a freedom issue, a civil liberties issue,'' said talk show host Williams in an interview. ''People view it as an intrusion on their privacy. This has nothing to do with public safety--its personal safety, and people should have the right to choose for themselves.’’
So if you’ve meekly acquiesced to the intrusion of privacy that is the wearing of a seatbelt under the pathetic excuse that “it’s a buckle” - and I’m pretty sure you’re submitting yourself to this mandatory government-imposed humiliation even when driving alone - you can’t cherry pick your principles whenever you’re being told that you have to get angry over some new outrage in the culture war. Seatbelts are meh, vaccine mandates are bad.
You should have taken a stand against seatbelts and the public smoking ban, then. Now it looks like you’re simply dusting off your alleged principles whenever it’s convenient to participate in the victimhood olympics.
You know why. Screaming is the strategy. They would loss miserably at a debate, that’s why ‘they’, the left does not do that.
Talk about a non-sequitur. Seat belts vs. vaccine? Since when has anybody injected a seatbelt? Since when is affixing a seatbelt a permanent body altering procedure?
These things have nothing to do with one another. But in your cult-altered mind, where reason, logic and facts don’t matter, I suppose anything goes as long as it sounds like a slogan.
My anecdotal evidence is pretty strong since I am triple vaxed with moderna and currently have the kung flu and yeah, it’s omicron and it still sucks. I have hardly been anywhere for a while and I still got it. I haven’t been sick prior to this for 3 years. Healthy as a horse.
Not even in the same category. And if you want to fix obedience diapers to your children’s faces, go nuts. The rest of us want to live normally. You don’t have to be authoritarian to act as if you live under it. You can just obey and do everything fauci says without making anybody else do it.
This sounds like a desperate plea to keep your failing narrative alive. Seatbelts and vaccines have nothing to do with one another. At all.
What’s the famous quote? Something like “Those who favor security over freedom deserve neither and will lose both”? It’s something to that effect, my covid induced fever makes me not want to go do a bunch of research right now.
They are nothing near the same. One is a medical procedure, the other depends on whether or not you choose to operate or get in a vehicle. One is permanent, the other is not. You can unstrap a seatbelt, you cannot un-take an injection. Speaking of, you may want to stop with those estrogen shots, they make you sound crazy.
You’re about as sharp as a bowling ball… Seatbelts and vaccines are the same thing! lol… That is one desperate argument right there.
It’s for the children, don’t you know? Though I don’t think masks are 100% useless. If you are sick, like I am now, I am perfectly fine with wearing a mask if I have to go out, so I don’t accidently spit on somebody.
Otherwise, it’s just about virtue signaling and nothing else. Nothing is dumber looking then a healthy person in a mask by themselves. Even a sick person by themselves is stupid.
You can’t over look that part. That is the problem with this third-grade argument, utterly devoid of nuance, full stop. The comparison alone is laughably bad. Even under the influence of my covid-addled feverish brain, I can see through the stupidity in zero seconds.
He probably believe that old soviet trope that stalin increased the life expectancy of Russians by 50%. Sure, when you no longer are sending millions of troops to die on the Eastern front and you have already killed all your enemies and murdered millions of people, the life expectancy is bound to double in no time flat.
Don’t worry, the cult is already working on that. They are just having issues convincing us the worthiness of their cult first. Once your in the cult, then you just automatically believe all the authoritarian horse-shit.
Well, if you disagree with them, your automatically racist. It still amazes me, that we see physically, the effects of these terrible policies and the utterly devastating effects it’s had on every facet of society and their are still nimrods defending it and wanting more.
Yet, not one person has taken on the question: If you are vaxxed and believe in it, what the hell does it matter who else isn’t?
Secondly, if one really hates the unvaxxed as much as they proport, why not let them die, like they believe they will, unfettered?
Reason, they know it’s not true. And it’s not about covid and never has been. It’s about cult, it’s about narrative, it’s about obedience.
Whenever you see a ‘rebellious’ cause that happens to be on the side of power, run like hell. You know what follows next.
Instead of the ‘little red book’ they carry around D.I.E. and authoritarian ideology. it’s about obedience, not health. It’s about obedience, control, social manipulation, power. To what end?
This is the stupidity you get when you even entertain a false premise in the first place. Vaccine != Seatbelt.
lol… Creating a strawman to point out the error of somebody else’s logic is hilarious to me. You entire argument fell on it’s face from the start. There is no comparison to vaccines vs. seat belts.
I am going to have to look it up. Did you come up with this idiotic comparison on your own, or did you read it somewhere else and think it was dandy. I guess that’s what they teach you these days in the grievance studies. ^^ Modern education, folks! Making people dumber by the minute.
LOLOLOLOLOLOL! Yeah, @twojarslave, your the one making the logical error. Not the moron comparing a safety-belt to a vaccine. I can’t, this is too dumb.
@loppar You keep comparing local laws (like seatbelt laws) to an unprecedented Federal-level mandate done not by legislation, but by executive fiat under rather questionable premises. Again, checks and balances are an important part of our system of government.
If the Executive Branch of the Federal Government declared that the consequences for not wearing your seatbelt became loss of job and the inability to participate in public life, I can guarantee you there would be a lot of opposition to that idea. For damn good reason.
And yes, we can cherry-pick our battles. That’s what civic life is all about, in fact. For the record, I’m not particularly in favor of seatbelt laws or helmet laws. I’m not going to use up my vacation time to go protest them, nor will it be the main issue I consider when deciding who gets my vote.
You may find this shocking, but if my state’s seatbelt laws were repealed today I would still choose to wear one even without the government telling me I have to (under threat of a $50 ticket).
We get it. You’re firmly in the #putthemoutofwork camp. All for the greater good, of course.
Luckily, it’s almost a certainty that someone opposed to those laws would also be right for you on your main issue/s(if I’ve come to a decent understanding of your values via our online interactions here).
Edit: and this:
For whatever reason, @loppar takes great pride in believing he’s pointed out inconsistency in Americans. Remember that he’s brought up how inconsistent it is(in his opinion and without further explanation, of course) to worry about gun rights when New York had “stop-and-frisk.”
I actually remember my dad getting pissy about the mid-80’s seatbelt laws in Indiana and Illinois. He eventually started wearing one much later in life after a lot of goading from his kids and wife.
Strangely, the government mandate didn’t seem to change his line of thought. Similarly, I don’t remove my seatbelt when I cross into New Hampshire.
The other baffling part of the pro-mandate arguments is that it ignores behavior. I, fully vaccinated person, have had COVID since Monday. My symptoms have been mild and I could have easily gone out and lived life normally instead of staying home. I could have gone to the bar, I could have gone to jiu jitsu class, I could have done all kinds of things, infecting all kinds of people in the process.
Doing so would not have cost me my job. Doing so would not have prevented me from taking part in society.
Nor am I. People have a right to be irresponsible and die. It’s not anyone’s place to judge them. Besides, the main point is seatbelts are not anything remotely close to vaccines. It’s a complete false equivocation.
I gotta admit, it was funny though. It sounded so desperate and sadly, he probably thought it was brilliant
We grew up that way. And as normal the pendulum swung to far the other way. When I was a baby, my car seat was my mother. We used to jump around and hop and do all kinds of stupid stuff in the back of the car without anything. Now we strap kids in so they cannot move and have to sedate them with in car video. And we keep kids in booster seats until their almost adults. It’s ridiculous.
I was triple vaxed and got it. I was so pissed. I got them because I had a vested interest in not getting sick. I really hate that shit. I was always saying ‘the next time I get sick I better die from it’. Now I am so behind at work, I have a massive hill to climb. I didn’t have it horrible, but it was bad enough. A fever I couldn’t get rid of without a ton of advil and tylenol combined. It felt like someone tide a belt around my chest. And my feet and the tips pf my pinkies were perpetually cold. Nothing I did could warm them up. It was very strange. Now I am recovering from bronchitis. This is the first day I don’t feel like ass.
It’s not fun, but mostly not deadly. Very few deaths from just strait covid. Meaning few from the disease without comorbidities. Healthy folk seldom die.
I was actually relieved to get the positive COVID test. My kid is fishing and Tindering in Florida right now, it’s been cold and snowy and work has been slow. Perfect time to get it over with.
I lost taste for a few days but otherwise it was a cold. Minor muscle aches and chills on the first day plus a mild fever. My taste is returning, but still dulled. For about three days I could only perceive taste sensations, like spicy (and it had to be really spicy) and bitter. No flavor whatsoever. Cold turkey dipped in lots of horseradish mustard was the closest thing to a flavor I experienced for a few days. Follow me for more COVID recipes.
I didn’t take any meds besides a shot of nyquil before bed. Just water, rest and cold turkey dipped in horseradish mustard did it for me. Hope you feel better soon.
I don’t even get angry at Newsome’s BS anymore; dude is so riduculous it just makes me laugh and continue to be thankful that I no longer reside in that ridiculous state.
The lesson from this video? Carry a bottle of water with you at all times…LOL.
“Back in 1918, people real men used to shoot other men who didn’t wear masks.” “Vaccines are just like seatbelts, seatbelts save lives, therefore, vaccine mandates.” and oh yeah, “Fuck your silly freedom, snowflake.”
Notice the deafening silence from the narrative coming unglued at lightspeed.
Despite your sarcasm, the report is actually complete and utter bullshit. First of all, notice that it’s actually called a “literature review”, a “report” and not a “study” because the alleged meta analysis does not conform to standards of being an actual study. That doesn’t stop “freeeeedom” anti vaxxers from calling it a study, which is important.
This typical pseudo-scientific jargon is similar to the cottage industry of fake IVM “evidence” - using language that sounds science-y and similar to actual terms, but with a crucial difference not visible to the non-expert eye. I won’t get into the fact that main author, Steve Hanke is a member of the Cato Institute and has an obvious agenda.
In their meta analysis they’ve started with 18 590 studies (!) which they’ve reduced down to 34. That’s a pretty small subset, isn’t it? It also removes major studies (Flaxman et al, for example) showing a positive effect of lockdowns under pretty spurious explanations.
Now you’ve got this graph, which is the textbook example of malicious fake science. They’re showing the regression line thrown over a scatter plot graph purportedly showing a small (R squared value) correlation between lockdowns and mortality rates. Drawing a regression line like this would cause one to fail an undergrad statistics course and is usually seen gender and social studies. On such scattered data you could draw a regression line with the opposite slope and get a bigger correlation (not that it would matter, because it would be sloppy statistics nevertheless). The malicious part is using absolute dates in the X and Y axes and not the relative ones to the first case, grouping together Italy who had a full fledged pandemic in March together with the US who introduced shelter in place order weeks later.
So if we look at their time series, starting on March 16th 2020, when Italy had 350 deaths at the peak of the pandemic and the US had under 50 deaths daily, is intentionally misleading. Oh look, there’s a correlation between lockdowns and deaths in our analysis! No shit, that’s like concluding that firemen cause fires because there’s a correlation between fires and the presence of firemen.
Wouldn’t it make more sense to put a relative time periods for each country, starting with a date t when a first case (or first death, or first XYZ cases) is recorded, introduction of measures at t+X and examine their effectiveness at t+X+Y? No, because that would yield different results which would be at odds with the desired title to be shared on social media.
And this is where the BS detector should go off even for a layman not versed in statistics. They’re flat out excluding examples where timely lockdowns prevented the spread of the virus.
In other words, it’s word salad whose only purpose is to be shared around in the rightwing echo chamber and so that the evil midget can ask Jamie to “look it up” when touting the benefits of whatever crap his snake oil salesmen guests are hawking.
This is just a small subset of what’s wrong with this “literature review” I’ve had the misfortune to read, I can get into much more detail…
