All targets I’ve been to in the last 5 years have grocery aisles. Never been in a Walmart so idk but pretty sure they have everything. Restaurants did not have to close, they just had to have a way to do takeout-only safely.
Again, you want to eliminate unneccesary risk. Having Walmart open was a risk, but it was neccessary for people to get food/Rx/essentials. Having the barbershop open would have been a risk and it provides nothing neccessary to society.
I have a problem with governments picking winners and losers. I have a problem with it when it comes to bailouts and I have a problem with it in this case as well. Probably more so in this case. How is it fair that multi-billion dollar corporation with hundreds of thousands of employee are allowed to stay open, but a 3rd generation mom and pop doesn’t get the same opportunity? The chances of an outbreak within an organization of 3M employees across thousands of stores with millions of customers is exponentially greater than an outbreak at a small mom and pop. Its fucking bananas!
Temporary doesn’t seem so temporary anymore. We’re talking about “phase II” starting in September here.
That’s fine, but a lot of places are doubling down as opposed to accepting new data/circumstances and adjusting accordingly.
Well, someone may spend money there instead of the big box store. Can’t have that. Of course, market forces will be blamed when small businesses shut down.
Here’s the basic problem - you want a certain amount of precision (that you think right) in how these things are being selected, and because government isn’t enacting policy with those precisons in place, the whole thing is a farce unworthy of pursuing.
That’s nonsense.
There’s no way government is going to enact a policy that says “hey, you can get food at Wal-Mart, but only food even though Wal-Mart sells all kinds of stuff, because food is essential, but you can’t get non-food stuff, like crayons or a PlayStation, because they aren’t essential, even though you coming in to buy both food and non-food is no worse on the human ‘load’ and risk or transmission inside the building than if you buy only food.”
You’re mad government took action and working backwards from that conclusion, you’re nitpicking the broad based policies chosen, and equating your nitpicking to reasons why the policies are unjust. Sorry, that doesn’t work. There’s a rational reason Wal-Mart is open but a barber isn’t. That’ll change in time, based on changing facts - but saying “this makes no sense” is absurd.
Agreed. Obviously I don’t think this one will be the one that does the job on us by any means, but you’re right. When “new” is microscopic and invades your body, it should be taken seriously.
These are two of the most serious questions in a long list of serious questions. These are the ones that personally keep me up at night, so to speak. Lack of long term immunity is a world shaking blow to any hope of “normalcy” without a very effective vaccine in the picture.
Lack of seasonality–where this virus just keeps spreading–is also extremely high up on my list. This has not demonstrated any seasonal variation (of course it’s too early to interpret for sure, but my money is on “none”). Let’s do the math: 60,000 dead in 2 months outside of normal flu season. Let’s say we cut fatalities down to 20% of the current number AND it stays linear. That’s still 72,000 dead by July, 84,000 by end of August, and we still have 4 months + winter + flu season to go before year’s end.
I have significant hopes we don’t end up in that scenario, but it’s not a given.
There’s no easy answer to this frankly. This is the trillion dollars question that countries all around the world are trying to figure out. If we have effective treatments, then the answer is obviously “sooner”, but we don’t know how soon.
We are witnessing a world changing, epochal event. It’s not the Plague by any means, no. But it IS going to fundamentally change many aspects of how we conduct our business unless/until we get good treatments.
That’s EXACTLY the problem. If everyone did things considerately of their own free will, we wouldn’t have to have as much shut down as we potentially do now, would we? But people don’t.
Key word is “relatively”. They’re still getting sick, just at significantly less frequency. And I think infants more so (but don’t have the numbers on hand so not sure). Regardless, it’s not full immunity although I am thankful for their relative safety.
Do you think Putin and Erdogan are bleeding heart liberals? Because Russia and Turkey are currently also in lockdown, and their economies are suffering greatly. Their political (and personal) survival depends on the economy - it’s a grand bargain in which their peoples acquiesce to a dictatorship in exchange for physical safety and a satisfactory economy.
Erdogan and Putin are ruthless SOBs and both tried to ignore Covid-19 at the start of the pandemic.
Had it been feasible to keep their respective economies open while sacrificing tens of thousands of mostly elderly people, both of these guys would have done it in a heartbeat.
Join the club. I think we are all tired of it, with the exception of morbid curiosity or scientific curiosity…which might actually coincide.
You’re an asshole, and that’s false. My business is non-essential, which means it is effectively stopped. My research still does pay me so I am able to make ends meet (with difficulty).
It may surprise you to know, but some of us care more about lives than money, including our own finances.
You know shit about me or what I want, you’re just pissed I don’t agree with you. And I don’t, because doing what you want to do–sticking our head in the sand–would end up with way more people dead.
And with much less morbidity and mortality.
What’s amazing is that these are not just small statistical differences. The differences seen in the morbidity and mortality associated with COVID-19 when comparing infants, kids and adults is huge.
You’re good people, @Aragorn. You’re a throwback to a time when character and honor meant something.
Nice conversation. I had not heard about Kawasaki syndrome yet. And correct on the immunosuppressants–however that is a very dangerous line to walk. Too little, they potentially storm and die. Too much, the immune system can’t kick the virus and secondary effects take over, and they die.
We’re also not sure it is cytokine storm related in all cases. Strange things are afoot at the Circle K. There are multiple mechanisms going on and we don’t know what they all are.
This is an excellent question, and one we don’t know. There are still many tons of genetic and epigenetic triggers we don’t know about.
@anon50325502 I’m general I think the discussion as to how and when to open up the economy is important to have, so I agree with you on that. I don’t think, in a general sense, anyone is going to get this right. We’re seeing a worldwide experiment in progress, and we don’t have anywhere close to all the facts.
I can totally sympathize with this. I don’t disagree. Sadly, nobody is getting the A+ score on this puzzle.
UV light is effective, but takes time.
I didn’t know you grew up around Emporia. That was always right on the way to my grandpa’s farm when I was a young kid. I knew it was the halfway point lol.
Cool, I stand corrected…
I really appreciate that mate. Sincerely. I can’t take credit for that though, I came from good stock both parentally and extended. They’re all like that and they were examples to me, even though I don’t necessarily like their politics.
It’s rough right now but I know there are others in tougher spots. We just have to keep helping each other.
As an aside, I’d honestly rather be dead than lose my character. The biggest, most awful regrets in my life are all times I didn’t stay the course.
Same here, @Aragorn.
Following the crowd…going against what I knew to be right…not following the Golden rule…being selfish…plain just doing something stupid…
On what? I don’t know of any small town grocery stores in Kansas that are shut down. I fully agree with the government not picking winners and losers and from my posting history you can tell I’m pretty anti big business. But it seems to me like they picked winners and losers on what was essential, not on who could provide that service? Maybe I’m wrong on how it is everywhere, but all of our “smaller” stores here that were essential were open just like Wal Mart.
This probably helped some small town grocery stores more than anything. One in a spot I used to live delivered to homes and I’m sure a lot of people took advantage of that instead of driving twenty minutes to wal mart with a bunch of people.
I don’t disagree on the vast majority of your stances on this btw.
Yeah. I grew up about 45 miles from there in a town with about 650 people.
Thank you. They keep me up at night too, cuz I’m thinking like this- “It is known to cause this, this, and this, with many unknowns. So lung damage, check. The person lived, but that’s a pretty swift blow.”.
Ding ding, round two:
“Millions of people with lung damage and commensurate heart problems as a result of the lung damage are now infected 6 mos later… FUCK.”.
My point is you disagree with how it’s been done, and while that’s fine - the way it has been done makes plenty of sense. These decisions are being made with risk-reward ratios being decided - so there’s a broad range of “right” answers that we hope will be good, since perfect isn’t an option.
You about nailed them all, haha
You got it. While it obviously only damages a small proportion of the infected…and I don’t by any means think that everyone who got it once will get it again…it’s still a swift kick in the balls exactly like you described if you catch it twice. One kick to soften you up, the other to send you packing. It’s potentially a morbid sort of compound interest.
How long immunity lasts will be a very, very important question to determine our re-opening options (not to mention our chances of getting a vaccine in short order–the longer immunity lasts the more likely a vaccine is to be highly effective, and vice versa). My personal opinion, and I don’t have any data for this it’s just my hunch, is that immunity will likely be ~1 year on average, with outliers across the board based on pre-existing conditions and overall health.
I don’t think this will grant 2+ year immunity, at least not with full protection. But I could be wrong and I hope I am. If I am wrong it gives us much better options
Agreed.
He’s always on the cutting edge when I talk to him. And yes, the immuno-suppressants are a dangerous treatment plan, but at this point doctors are just throwing whatever they have at this thing.