[quote]Petedacook wrote:
Tell me, whose testimony are you relying on?
Mineta’s?
Yes, I watched Mineta’s testimony. Dick Cheney was aware the plane was hijacked, and watched it on radar.
[/quote]
And? What exactly are you claiming? What do you think Mineta’s testimony caught Cheney in?
[quote]jumper wrote:
This thread is for all of you to voice out about what really happened on 9/11. We know some of you think that it was probably staged and somehow involved Dick Cheney and a remote control. Personally I am going to go with terrorist islamofags did it, but like I said, lets hear from every point of view. [/quote]
I think its funny that even when discussing one of the most tragic events in the history of the United States, some people cant resist the opprotunity to get in some good ol’ fashioned gay bashing.
IslamoFAGs, indeed. Because homosexuals are known to be terrorists. Obvious connection. Obvious.
Quit being a bigot and I’ll quit objecting to your bigotry.
[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
I think its funny that even when discussing one of the most tragic events in the history of the United States, some people cant resist the opprotunity to get in some good ol’ fashioned gay bashing.
IslamoFAGs, indeed. Because homosexuals are known to be terrorists. Obvious connection. Obvious.
Quit being a bigot and I’ll quit objecting to your bigotry.[/quote]
What is is especially funny about the phrase “Islamofags” is that many of the alleged hijackers, for all of their so-called Islamic extremism, chose to spend their last night on earth engaged in the highly heterosexual and un-Muslim pursuit of swilling cheap liquor and stuffing dollar bills into the panties of writhing exotic female dancers at a strip joint.
But perhaps Jumper will claim that was just part of their cover.
[quote]Sloth wrote:
Petedacook wrote:
Tell me, whose testimony are you relying on?
Mineta’s?
Yes, I watched Mineta’s testimony. Dick Cheney was aware the plane was hijacked, and watched it on radar.
And? What exactly are you claiming? What do you think Mineta’s testimony caught Cheney in?[/quote]
Come on man. Pookie proclaimed the government did not know the plane was hijacked; "Because at that point people thought the tower hits might have been accidents?
Because giving the order to shoot down a civilian plane requires you to be damn sure it’s being used for an attack? "
I am saying that based solely on Mineta’s testimony the govt. was positive the plane was hijacked.
To say when the second plane hit the tower people “thought the tower hits might have been an accident,” and thats why the plane hit the Pentagon is simply closing your eyes to possibility, not questioning anything, and accepting whatever crap the govt. feeds you.
Come on man, they already had the hijackers saying over the radio “we have planes,” the twin towers had already been nailed, two planes remaining were severely off course, and fighter jets were allegedly scrambled to intercept the one in Pennsylvania, but they were not sure the plane heading toward the Pentagon, severely off course, with cut off communications was actually hijacked? Therefore, no accountability? Please…
Here is another question, why was it when the second plane hit the twin towers, and the secret service came into the class room to tell president Bush, they did not whisk him away immediately to a safe zone? Isn’t that their job when the country is under attack?
Yet, he was allowed to reamin in the classroom for over 5 minutes.
[quote]Petedacook wrote:
Here is another question, why was it when the second plane hit the twin towers, and the secret service came into the class room to tell president Bush, they did not whisk him away immediately to a safe zone? Isn’t that their job when the country is under attack?
Yet, he was allowed to reamin in the classroom for over 5 minutes.
[/quote]
I would love to have an expert lip reader analyze that video and find out the exact words whispered to the President by that agent. It would be very indicative of… to borrow a phrase from another era… what the President knew, and when.
[quote]pookie wrote:
Varqanir wrote:
The first hit, probably. The second hit, not on your life.
Really? One of the french channel news here first described the second hit as a news helicopter flying too close to the second building while filming the first and hitting it. I don’t know that their source was (could be their own ass AFAIK), but not everyone automatically assumed an attack, even after the second hit.
[/quote]
Well, all that proves is that the French are poorly informed. 
And anyway, not everyone believed that either hit was an accident at the time. Certainly not the air traffic controllers who first suspected a hijack at 8:13 in the morning (the controllers were tipped off when the plane’s transponder was suddenly switched off, and they could hear “suspicious voices” in the cockpit, saying things like “nobody move, please, we are going back to the airport. Don’t try to make any stupid moves”), and tracked the plane all the way to its final destination in Manhattan.
…and certainly not George Tenet.
[i]CIA Director George Tenet was told of the [first] crash a few minutes after it happened. A messenger gave him the news as he was eating breakfast with former Senator David Boren in a Washington restaurant three blocks from the White House. Boren says Tenet was told that the World Trade Center had been attacked by an airplane:
“I was struck by the fact that [the messenger] used the word attacked,” Boren recalled. An aide then handed a cell phone to Tenet, and Tenet made some calls, indicating that at least some at the highest levels of the Bush administration were talking about an attack at this time. Tenet then said to Boren, “You know, this has bin Laden’s fingerprints all over it.” [ABC, 9/14/02] [/i]
I find it positively astounding that the Director of the CIA was able not only to correctly pinpoint the culprit within seconds of the crime, having been presented with no further information than “a plane has crashed into a building,” but also on the very next day, foretell the future, assuring a Pentagon advisor that “Iraq has to pay for the attack.”
A goddamn modern-day Sherlock Holmes and Nostradamus all wrapped up into one, our Mr. Tenet. A credit to the Agency.
[quote]Petedacook wrote:
Here is another question, why was it when the second plane hit the twin towers, and the secret service came into the class room to tell president Bush, they did not whisk him away immediately to a safe zone? Isn’t that their job when the country is under attack?
Yet, he was allowed to reamin in the classroom for over 5 minutes.
He was attempting to read a children’s book! This all began the night of the Nov. 2000 elections, when Gore was ripped from his Fla. win, and the chads began a war we will never get away from. Fuck it, kill 'em all, let Allah sort 'em out. Our country really has some misled sheep. I always fucked bush, Now, for the past 7 years, Bush has fucked me. Ironic.
[quote]pookie wrote:
Did the extremists learn that attacking America leads to a lot of dead relatives and general worsening of an already shitty situation in their countries?
See? No one learns.
[/quote]
The difference being that the terrorists have openly stated that they want as many people dead as possible. For the record, none of the hijackers’ relatives were harmed. Also, destabilizing the shitty situation in their countries is EXACTLY what they’re after.
Hence Reid’s comment about the war being lost from day one.
[quote]Sloth wrote:
Wow…telling admission. In your words, on the very day of 9-11, this was what you thought about a terroristic attack purposefully targeted at civilians. An attack which killed thousands. And, an attack that killed many nationalities besides Americans. I don’t think you’re a terrorist, but I do think you’re an extremist. [/quote]
I can’t summarize the cocktail of overwhelming feelings I felt on that day in one sentence. They ranged from sadness, compassion, insecurity, incapacity to downright anger.
However, I wasn’t the only one to cynically consider being an awakening to the American population to start questioning their government’s foreign policy. It was expressed by editors of many leftist papers in Europe, Latin America and Asia. Arabs were more divided because a great deal of them didn’t want to swallow that it was done in the name of Islam.
I don’t know why Mecca would be relevant in this context. That is, unless you claim to worship the mighty buck.
Anyway, in the hypothetical case that some American extremist cell bombed Mecca, I think that I would respond in it the same way. I would harshly condemn it, but will try to look on the bright side as well.
That is, hope the Saudis and all the Muslim extremists wake up and realize that nothing good could come from the use of violence.
[quote]lixy wrote:
For the record, none of the hijackers’ relatives were harmed. [/quote]
Also for the record, the family of the alleged ringleader of the plot was hustled out of the country on a private jet, with the approval of the FBI, at a time when all flights both foreign and domestic were supposedly grounded.
[quote]Petedacook wrote:
pookie wrote:
A bunch of excuses.
Like I said, excuses do not fly. Actions fly.
It is that simple. Accountability. How can you not question this type of shit?[/quote]
They’re not excuses, they`re possible explanation for as to why everything didn’t go like a Hollywood scenario on that day.
I don’t really care whether they fire 2000 people or no one, I’m simply of the opinion that since no one had actually prepared for that particular scenario (even though some people had thought of it before) you simply can’t expect everyone to act perfectly when faced with an unusual situation.
Now we know they had 4 planes, at that time they didn’t; so maybe time was wasted checking other planes; but if they had had 20, then that would’ve been the right course of action.
If one of your employee at your call center comes in with a box of grenades and a couple of AK47s; are you completely convinced that you’ll react in exactly the right way as to save everyone and capture him?
You seem to assume that everyone on that day knew what we know now… they didn’t. It’s been 6 years now, in which we’ve had time to elaborate what-ifs and run through various scenarios; they had 1 hour between the first and last strike. And so on.
Like I said, I’m not claiming that 9/11 got the best possible result; but that under the circumstances, it’s hard to say if different people placed in the same situation would’ve made that much of a difference.
[quote]Petedacook wrote:
Here is another question, why was it when the second plane hit the twin towers, and the secret service came into the class room to tell president Bush, they did not whisk him away immediately to a safe zone? Isn’t that their job when the country is under attack?
Yet, he was allowed to reamin in the classroom for over 5 minutes.[/quote]
Well Bush was reading a book. I’m pretty sure the Secret Service had never faced that particular situation before and didn’t know how to react.
[quote]lixy wrote:
The difference being that the terrorists have openly stated that they want as many people dead as possible.[/quote]
Including their own?
Unfortunately, it’s not the House of Saud that got toppled. Maybe getting rid of Saddam is a win for muslim extremists, but the Talibans where exactly the kind of religious rulers they want, no?
Well, that’s just because the US is trying to wage those bullshit “humane” wars. As long as it holds back, you’ll always be able to defeat it with insurgencies and guerilla tactics.
If they ever go back to wars of extermination and colonization, the only place you’ll find arabs will be in history books.
[quote]Petedacook wrote:
Here is another question, why was it when the second plane hit the twin towers, and the secret service came into the class room to tell president Bush, they did not whisk him away immediately to a safe zone? Isn’t that their job when the country is under attack?
Yet, he was allowed to reamin in the classroom for over 5 minutes.
[/quote]
The secret service was in on it too?
[quote]Varqanir wrote:
lixy wrote:
For the record, none of the hijackers’ relatives were harmed.
Also for the record, the family of the alleged ringleader of the plot was hustled out of the country on a private jet, with the approval of the FBI, at a time when all flights both foreign and domestic were supposedly grounded.[/quote]
This has been widely reported but I do not believe it is true. I believe they were on one of the first flights AFTER the the ban was lifted.
Does anyone have real times and dates to verify?
[quote]Varqanir wrote:
Well, all that proves is that the French are poorly informed. :P[/quote]
You’d be surprised. It’s great fun to watch the same news on CNN and then on one of the local channels. Sometimes, it’s hard to reconcile that both reports are for the same events. Too bad I don’t get Fox News, it would probably be even more fun.
[quote]And anyway, not everyone believed that either hit was an accident at the time. Certainly not the air traffic controllers who first suspected a hijack at 8:13 in the morning (the controllers were tipped off when the plane’s transponder was suddenly switched off, and they could hear “suspicious voices” in the cockpit, saying things like “nobody move, please, we are going back to the airport. Don’t try to make any stupid moves”), and tracked the plane all the way to its final destination in Manhattan.
…and certainly not George Tenet.
[i]CIA Director George Tenet was told of the [first] crash a few minutes after it happened. A messenger gave him the news as he was eating breakfast with former Senator David Boren in a Washington restaurant three blocks from the White House. Boren says Tenet was told that the World Trade Center had been attacked by an airplane:
“I was struck by the fact that [the messenger] used the word attacked,” Boren recalled. An aide then handed a cell phone to Tenet, and Tenet made some calls, indicating that at least some at the highest levels of the Bush administration were talking about an attack at this time. Tenet then said to Boren, “You know, this has bin Laden’s fingerprints all over it.” [ABC, 9/14/02] [/i]
I find it positively astounding that the Director of the CIA was able not only to correctly pinpoint the culprit within seconds of the crime, having been presented with no further information than “a plane has crashed into a building,” but also on the very next day, foretell the future, assuring a Pentagon advisor that “Iraq has to pay for the attack.”
A goddamn modern-day Sherlock Holmes and Nostradamus all wrapped up into one, our Mr. Tenet. A credit to the Agency.[/quote]
Where’s the link between “bin Laden’s prints” and “Iraq” has to pay? Or was the CIA spying inside the Whitehouse too?
Hey pookie, JeffR just called… he wants his ideology back.
That’s a good point, though, about the United States pussyfooting around in its wars from about Vietnam until the present. What would you say prevents the government from waging full-scale Wounded Knee style genocides in Iraq and elsewhere around the globe?
Is it a shortcoming of the present American doctrine of warfighting? Have we lost the stomach for extermination and colonization? Is it an interest in not being perceived by the rest of the world as a brutal imperial power? Perhaps fear of domestic backlashes? Or is it just America’s inherent kindness, gentleness and nobility?
[quote]pookie wrote:
Varqanir wrote:
Well, all that proves is that the French are poorly informed.
You’d be surprised. It’s great fun to watch the same news on CNN and then on one of the local channels. Sometimes, it’s hard to reconcile that both reports are for the same events. Too bad I don’t get Fox News, it would probably be even more fun.
And anyway, not everyone believed that either hit was an accident at the time. Certainly not the air traffic controllers who first suspected a hijack at 8:13 in the morning (the controllers were tipped off when the plane’s transponder was suddenly switched off, and they could hear “suspicious voices” in the cockpit, saying things like “nobody move, please, we are going back to the airport. Don’t try to make any stupid moves”), and tracked the plane all the way to its final destination in Manhattan.
…and certainly not George Tenet.
[i]CIA Director George Tenet was told of the [first] crash a few minutes after it happened. A messenger gave him the news as he was eating breakfast with former Senator David Boren in a Washington restaurant three blocks from the White House. Boren says Tenet was told that the World Trade Center had been attacked by an airplane:
“I was struck by the fact that [the messenger] used the word attacked,” Boren recalled. An aide then handed a cell phone to Tenet, and Tenet made some calls, indicating that at least some at the highest levels of the Bush administration were talking about an attack at this time. Tenet then said to Boren, “You know, this has bin Laden’s fingerprints all over it.” [ABC, 9/14/02] [/i]
I find it positively astounding that the Director of the CIA was able not only to correctly pinpoint the culprit within seconds of the crime, having been presented with no further information than “a plane has crashed into a building,” but also on the very next day, foretell the future, assuring a Pentagon advisor that “Iraq has to pay for the attack.”
A goddamn modern-day Sherlock Holmes and Nostradamus all wrapped up into one, our Mr. Tenet. A credit to the Agency.
Where’s the link between “bin Laden’s prints” and “Iraq” has to pay? Or was the CIA spying inside the Whitehouse too?
[/quote]
I suspected it was likely bin Laden or possibly Saddam as soon as it was obvious it was intentional.
Was I in on it?
[quote]lixy wrote:
pookie wrote:
Better to learn from the mistakes and not repeat them again.
Yeah, you’d think!
On 9/11, I hoped the world will realize that in this day and age you can’t get away with oppressing and alienating people, and that we’ll finally achieve some kind of peace on Earth. The lesson was supposed to be that any evil you unleash will ultimately bite you right in the ass.
[/quote]
You have finally figured it out! The USA WILL crush the satanic forces that have overrun the Middle East and democracy and freedom will come to that troubled region of the world.
Just like the British got rid of the Hindu practice of wife burning, we will dispose of the satanic rituals of clitoral slashing, whipping of women for showing an ankle, beheading those who disagree with you, and so on. Reason will prevail.