Conservatives Hate Thinking

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
101

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

Their planes port at municipal airports , their boats dock at public docks , Their trucks roll on public streets . The use more man hours of the police and fire because they have more assets to protect.

[/quote]

COme on man… You are gonna honestly sit their and tell me the police are renting out old stores in the poor section of town, and driving up and down the block of the acre to stop them from going over and stealing from the rich part of town?

Take the corruption out of it (impossible I know) and the less wealthy get more benefit from the government than the more wealthy. That is why poor vote tends to go to the party that openly wants bigger government, and rich vote goes to the party that pretends it wasn’t a smaller government.

102

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

Who should deside what is fair? The rich? The poor? The Middle?

[/quote]

The middle as the majority of those who fight and die to protect this nation come from there. [/quote]

I think that is interesting.

Should sevice in the armed forces be required to serve the country as a congressman or president?[/quote]

I actually would answer yes to this question, particularly president. If you are going to send young men to war, you should have some real world experience in the military.[/quote]
Is it really the president who sends the soldiers to war or is it the public (at least the majority of it) that supports it?

I’m in the military and I used to think that politicians should have military experience but then again, I realize that it isn’t for everyone and to be honest you don’t want “everyone.” Besides, there are other ways to serve your country. Also, Obama supported (before becoming president)the positive changes to the GI Bill and other college incentives for soldiers whereas McCain was against them so it doesn’t necessarily follow that a conservative, former member of the armed services, is for the troops.

It’s interesting that the two Dems who ran against GWB were both Vietnam vets while GWB’s military service was less than stellar (and Cheney was a draft dodger) and McCain was beaten by Obama so Americans don’t put too much stock in military service. Had Powell run it would have been interesting. He is definitely someone who cares about the troops.

The point I’m making is that the middle class makes up the majority of the military. It’s a myth that the average soldier is from an impoverished background. A lot of these young (and not so young) men and women choose to serve out of a sense of duty (like me). If these people start to feel like this isn’t their country, that they are not protecting their families, friends, neighbors, etc. but are serving the interests of the elite then maybe fewer will be willing to put their lives on the line. Are we then going to start hiring illegals or something to do the job that Americans don’t want to do? [/quote]

Good post.

What is the general attitude towards congress and the POTUS in the service? And would you be able to offer any insight into how it has changed say over the last 30 years?

103

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]Sifu wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
I do not think things will tank just yet, I think the Bush tax cuts will expire and fix a lot of problems [/quote]

You are so wrong for a number of reasons. First off the government taking more money out of the economy in the form of taxes will not help the economy. There will be less money for consumers and more importantly the people who best know how to manage their money wisely, will have less to put to good use generating commerce.

Next, the money raised from those taxes will be insufficient to bring down the massive deficits Obama has been running ever since he got elected. Any extra revenues that come in will be wasted like the stimulus. [/quote]

I do not know if a more exacting person exists . People are touting the bill that will fix our budgets and not kick it down the road . Paul Krugman says Ryan’s plan gives $4.3 Trillion in tax cuts and $1.7 trillion in spending cuts , how is that going to fix any thing ???

Please be exacting , thanks [/quote]

The historical precedent doesn’t support your belief that raising taxes is going to fix things. It is a well established fact that raising taxes does not ultimately result in more revenues. The reason why is because it slows economic growth, which in turn reduces the growth of the tax base. Lowering taxes stimulates economic growth, this increases the size of the tax base and results in greater revenues.

104

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

It’s interesting that the two Dems who ran against GWB were both Vietnam vets while GWB’s military service was less than stellar
[/quote]

John Kerry’s ‘military service’ was a bunch of invented horseshit and Al Gore enlisted to further the anti-war effort from within the military. They’re the ones whose records are less than stellar.

105

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
Percentage Change in After-Tax Income
Cash Income
(in thousands of 2009 dollars) 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 2011 2012
Less than 10 0.1% 0.1% 0.1% 0.1% 5.1% 0.1% 0.1% 0.1% 0.1%
10-20 1.0% 1.0% 1.1% 1.0% 4.5% 1.0% 1.0% 1.0% 0.8%
20-30 2.6% 2.6% 2.5% 2.4% 5.4% 2.5% 2.4% 2.4% 2.2%
30-40 2.7% 2.8% 2.7% 2.6% 5.2% 2.8% 2.7% 2.7% 2.4%
40-50 2.6% 2.5% 2.4% 2.5% 4.7% 2.6% 2.5% 2.5% 2.2%
50-75 2.6% 2.6% 2.6% 2.6% 4.6% 2.8% 2.7% 2.7% 2.3%
75-100 2.9% 2.9% 2.9% 3.1% 4.8% 3.2% 3.2% 3.2% 2.8%
100-200 3.8% 3.8% 3.9% 4.0% 5.1% 4.3% 4.2% 4.2% 3.6%
200-500 3.4% 3.4% 3.8% 3.9% 4.0% 4.1% 4.3% 4.3% 3.6%
500-1,000 3.9% 4.0% 4.2% 4.2% 4.3% 4.3% 5.0% 5.0% 3.8%
More than 1,000 6.0% 6.0% 6.3% 6.1% 6.2% 6.0% 7.3% 7.3% 6.3%[/quote]

@ Pat I will quit taking mine if every one quits taking theirs . and again it clearly shows a disparity in the value of my dollar compared to Mitt’s or Goerge’s
[/quote]

You are falling for the same mindless class warfare ideology that has destroyed Europe. The tax code is designed to encourage people with money (ie Romney) to invest it in ways that will benefit society by giving them tax breaks. One of the benefits is people who aren’t smart or wealthy can get gainful employment.

Criticizing someone like Romney for being smart enough to take advantage of those tax breaks to get ahead in life is insane.

106

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]jnd wrote:

[quote]TLDR: Conservatives like low-effort thought and Science is witchcraft.
[/quote]

It does not say that conservatives “like” low-effort thought. It says that when people are engaged in low-effort mental processing this promotes politically conservative thoughts, not that political conservatives use low-effort thinking. No need to overstate the result to make your point.

The fact that conservatives propagate lies linking abortion to mental health difficulties (and increased breast cancer risks), and support abstinence-only education is far more damning than this study. Also cannot forget the new gem that women do not get pregnant via “legitimate” rape.

It is just sad how so many people wantonly ignore clear scientific results.

jnd[/quote]

I don’t know anything about claims of abortion affecting mental health difficulties. You’ll have to provide documentation for that gem; however, there is an increased risk of breast cancer when one uses the Pill! I’d have to see documentation for that claim, as well.

However, the last one is blatantly out of context and an actual misquote of Senate Hopeful Akin and ignores the fact that he apologized and said he mixed up his words.

I find it is the left-wing nuts like you that are guilty of the low thought, if by low thought I mean patently false and indefensible by any normal standard of debate.[/quote]

Didn’t realize I was a left wing nut guilty of low thought.

Akin is a tool who got caught expressing his fucked up view of the world. Mixed up his words??? If you want to give him a pass because you want to believe that he is a good christian man that’s on you. This leftwing low thinker likes that he won’t get out of the race.

If you have google use it. I won’t do your research for you. BTW there are about 1.7 million links when you search abortion and breast cancer link.

jnd

107

[quote]jnd wrote:

Didn’t realize I was a left wing nut guilty of low thought.

Akin is a tool who got caught expressing his fucked up view of the world. Mixed up his words??? If you want to give him a pass because you want to believe that he is a good christian man that’s on you. This leftwing low thinker likes that he won’t get out of the race.

jnd[/quote]

I have to agree with your sentiment. Akin’s comment was absurd and reflects badly on conservatives and pro-lifers.

108

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

Their planes port at municipal airports , their boats dock at public docks , Their trucks roll on public streets . The use more man hours of the police and fire because they have more assets to protect.

[/quote]

COme on man… You are gonna honestly sit their and tell me the police are renting out old stores in the poor section of town, and driving up and down the block of the acre to stop them from going over and stealing from the rich part of town?

Take the corruption out of it (impossible I know) and the less wealthy get more benefit from the government than the more wealthy. That is why poor vote tends to go to the party that openly wants bigger government, and rich vote goes to the party that pretends it wasn’t a smaller government.

[/quote]

What don’t you think most burglaries happen at businesses ? Who pays Air Traffic controllers salaries ? Do you know there are businesses in the poor section ?

Another point Pat did not cover Sales Tax and any fee is a Disproportionate way to tax considering percentage of income. But I will give you that one . Just do not act like the wealthy are the only ones paying taxes and fees

109

[quote]Sifu wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
Percentage Change in After-Tax Income
Cash Income
(in thousands of 2009 dollars) 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 2011 2012
Less than 10 0.1% 0.1% 0.1% 0.1% 5.1% 0.1% 0.1% 0.1% 0.1%
10-20 1.0% 1.0% 1.1% 1.0% 4.5% 1.0% 1.0% 1.0% 0.8%
20-30 2.6% 2.6% 2.5% 2.4% 5.4% 2.5% 2.4% 2.4% 2.2%
30-40 2.7% 2.8% 2.7% 2.6% 5.2% 2.8% 2.7% 2.7% 2.4%
40-50 2.6% 2.5% 2.4% 2.5% 4.7% 2.6% 2.5% 2.5% 2.2%
50-75 2.6% 2.6% 2.6% 2.6% 4.6% 2.8% 2.7% 2.7% 2.3%
75-100 2.9% 2.9% 2.9% 3.1% 4.8% 3.2% 3.2% 3.2% 2.8%
100-200 3.8% 3.8% 3.9% 4.0% 5.1% 4.3% 4.2% 4.2% 3.6%
200-500 3.4% 3.4% 3.8% 3.9% 4.0% 4.1% 4.3% 4.3% 3.6%
500-1,000 3.9% 4.0% 4.2% 4.2% 4.3% 4.3% 5.0% 5.0% 3.8%
More than 1,000 6.0% 6.0% 6.3% 6.1% 6.2% 6.0% 7.3% 7.3% 6.3%[/quote]

@ Pat I will quit taking mine if every one quits taking theirs . and again it clearly shows a disparity in the value of my dollar compared to Mitt’s or Goerge’s
[/quote]

You are falling for the same mindless class warfare ideology that has destroyed Europe. The tax code is designed to encourage people with money (ie Romney) to invest it in ways that will benefit society by giving them tax breaks. One of the benefits is people who aren’t smart or wealthy can get gainful employment.

Criticizing someone like Romney for being smart enough to take advantage of those tax breaks to get ahead in life is insane.

[/quote]

Do you have a problem presenting a point with out vitriol ? There is nothing mindless about my post . And most people in America would call me wealthy .

110

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

Who should deside what is fair? The rich? The poor? The Middle?

[/quote]

I can tell you right now the Bush tax cuts were written by and for the wealthy :)[/quote]

Everybody got a tax cut, first. Second the dirty little secret about rich people, is while they may be rich, they may not be receiving ‘income’. So you can tax the shit out of them at 100% and it won’t make a damn to them or tax revenue.[/quote]

No one wants to tax the shit out of them , No one thinks they are evil, it is a ploy to avoid serious conversation on the disparity of the value of the wealthy’s dollar $.87 and the working class’s dollar $.70 [/quote]

You are looking only at one avenue of taxation, income. Rich folks tend to have many more avenues of taxation due to having more shit: property, sales, capitol gains, etc. Now while us lowly have some of that too, they tend to have those things at a much higher level. They own big houses, perhaps several of them. They own more and more expensive cars, have many investments, boats, planes, people and if the own a business, they pay tons of taxes on it too. So in reality they pay a lot of taxes, just not income. They perhaps get a break on income, but the get hosed some where down the line.[/quote]

Their planes port at municipal airports , their boats dock at public docks , Their trucks roll on public streets . The use more man hours of the police and fire because they have more assets to protect.
[/quote]
Ever try to buy a boat slip? Not cheap. They don’t use airports for free and every time they pay for a place to park their planes or boats, they get taxed. They get taxed for the plane too, it has to be registered like a car, same with a boat. They get taxed on the fuels too. For every asset a person has a tax is paid, the more assets, the more taxes are paid. Further, believe it or not you want people to buy these things. One they get taxed like a mother fucker for it, two, middle class people usually work on those things. What happens to the people at Ferrari if people don’t buy them? They are unemployed. Then you have the dealers, the shippers, the mechanics the parts dealers, etc. All unemployed.
The one thing you want rich people to do is spend their money. More then taxing them. The more they spend the more they get taxed. If you tax them more on one end, they spend less and therefore have fewer taxing opportunities. Don’t throw more taxes at them, get them to spend, spend, spend.

You’re not going to fix the disparity with income tax. That’s small piece of the pie for them. What we don’t want rich people to do, is hoard their money.

111

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

Who should deside what is fair? The rich? The poor? The Middle?

[/quote]

I can tell you right now the Bush tax cuts were written by and for the wealthy :)[/quote]

Everybody got a tax cut, first. Second the dirty little secret about rich people, is while they may be rich, they may not be receiving ‘income’. So you can tax the shit out of them at 100% and it won’t make a damn to them or tax revenue.[/quote]

No one wants to tax the shit out of them , No one thinks they are evil, it is a ploy to avoid serious conversation on the disparity of the value of the wealthy’s dollar $.87 and the working class’s dollar $.70 [/quote]

You are looking only at one avenue of taxation, income. Rich folks tend to have many more avenues of taxation due to having more shit: property, sales, capitol gains, etc. Now while us lowly have some of that too, they tend to have those things at a much higher level. They own big houses, perhaps several of them. They own more and more expensive cars, have many investments, boats, planes, people and if the own a business, they pay tons of taxes on it too. So in reality they pay a lot of taxes, just not income. They perhaps get a break on income, but the get hosed some where down the line.[/quote]

Their planes port at municipal airports , their boats dock at public docks , Their trucks roll on public streets . The use more man hours of the police and fire because they have more assets to protect.
[/quote]
Ever try to buy a boat slip? Not cheap. They don’t use airports for free and every time they pay for a place to park their planes or boats, they get taxed. They get taxed for the plane too, it has to be registered like a car, same with a boat. They get taxed on the fuels too. For every asset a person has a tax is paid, the more assets, the more taxes are paid. Further, believe it or not you want people to buy these things. One they get taxed like a mother fucker for it, two, middle class people usually work on those things. What happens to the people at Ferrari if people don’t buy them? They are unemployed. Then you have the dealers, the shippers, the mechanics the parts dealers, etc. All unemployed.
The one thing you want rich people to do is spend their money. More then taxing them. The more they spend the more they get taxed. If you tax them more on one end, they spend less and therefore have fewer taxing opportunities. Don’t throw more taxes at them, get them to spend, spend, spend.

You’re not going to fix the disparity with income tax. That’s small piece of the pie for them. What we don’t want rich people to do, is hoard their money.[/quote]

I have to admit I have never tried to buy a boat slip, I will bet it is paid to private enterprise ?

Income tax for the middle class is %30 that is 3 in 10 dollars because the wealthy have more representation in Washington they have better tax rate , Half of the working people . I have always said that was the biggest loss the working class took with the loss of strong unions .

How are the wealthy going to hoard their money ? They could not do it unless the money market paid more than single digit returns

112

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
What don’t you think most burglaries happen at businesses ?[/quote]

Not sure how that matters. And burglaries aren’t then entire spectrum of crime that police are there to fight.

You are talking about people that largely service commercial airlines over private “rich people” jets. Which would again benefit someone who can’t afford a jet more than someone who can.

Yes, I am aware of that.

Where are you going with this? Because I feel like you are about to prove me point.

I don’t think anyone is, and if they are, they are wrong.

All I’m saying is the less money you earn the more you get in return for your tax payments. When it comes to taxes and government provided services, being wealthly typically has a shitty ROI, and it “pays” to be poor.

People like to talk in %'s because it makes them feel better about themselves. If living off of long term capital gains is so easy, do it. No one is stopping you but yourself, and you too can enjoy a tax rate that is lower. But, you will notice that when you cut the check, and pay taxes on phantom income (can’t tell you how often this happens, lol, but the blue bloods won’t bother to understand because the truth on income and wealth management scares them) you won’t be thinking one god damn second what % of your AGI you are paying. You will think, “Holy fuck, the IRS wants how much?”

(I think you know when I’m using “you” above I don’t me you as much as anyone complaining.)

113

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

I have to admit I have never tried to buy a boat slip, I will bet it is paid to private enterprise ? [/quote]

Those local enterprises pay quite a bit to the local government to get the slips, and those slips are worth more, sometimes, than the property attached to them. COme to Nantucket.

That is a lie Pitt. You have been lied to.

Do the math, the highest you can pay on taxable income of 99k (which will be atleast 8k lower than your salary, at least) is 22%.

You don’t get near 30% range until you are making around 380k as a single tax payer… That is the top 1%.

114

Hey Beans save your posting time for something that is more worthy. I’ve shown Pitt statistics right from the IRS regarding the top 1% paying 37% of all taxes, and the top 10% paying 70% of all taxes. Facts do not penetrate Pitts mind. It’s like he has a Star Trek type protective sheild all around his head.

“Incoming fact put up the sheild Sulu…bzzzz” Nothing gets in and the only things that come out are the tired worn out dogma that was placed in his head apparently when he was very young. “Rich are evil they don’t pay taxes…the middle class is shinking and it’s all the fault of the rich.” Oh and the gem of all gems “Regan was a bad President…bla bla bla.”

I’d love to read something that Pitt writes that is actually factually correct and not something that was drummed into his noggin before he could walk.

He’s a good enough guy but you will not get past that shield.

115

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
I have always said that was the biggest loss the working class took with the loss of strong unions .

[/quote]

As a funny, haha type funny, aside. I’m looking at a fund with half a dozen unions and/or their pension plans invested. Imagine that, the unions invested in that evil evil, job killing Venture Capital…

lol

116

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Hey Beans save your posting time for something that is more worthy. I’ve shown Pitt statistics right from the IRS regarding the top 1% paying 37% of all taxes, and the top 10% paying 70% of all taxes. Facts do not penetrate Pitts mind. It’s like he has a Star Trek type protective sheild all around his head.

“Incoming fact put up the sheild Sulu…bzzzz” Nothing gets in and the only things that come out are the tired worn out dogma that was placed in his head apparently when he was very young. “Rich are evil they don’t pay taxes…the middle class is shinking and it’s all the fault of the rich.” Oh and the gem of all gems “Regan was a bad President…bla bla bla.”

I’d love to read something that Pitt writes that is actually factually correct and not something that was drummed into his noggin before he could walk.

He’s a good enough guy but you will not get past that shield.
[/quote]

eh… I love talking shop.

117

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

I have to admit I have never tried to buy a boat slip, I will bet it is paid to private enterprise ? [/quote]

Those local enterprises pay quite a bit to the local government to get the slips, and those slips are worth more, sometimes, than the property attached to them. COme to Nantucket.

That is a lie Pitt. You have been lied to.

Do the math, the highest you can pay on taxable income of 99k (which will be atleast 8k lower than your salary, at least) is 22%.

You don’t get near 30% range until you are making around 380k as a single tax payer… That is the top 1%.

[/quote]

True, I am middle class my total fed withholding is around 11%, that’s for SS and medicare included.

118

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

I have to admit I have never tried to buy a boat slip, I will bet it is paid to private enterprise ? [/quote]

Those local enterprises pay quite a bit to the local government to get the slips, and those slips are worth more, sometimes, than the property attached to them. COme to Nantucket.

That is a lie Pitt. You have been lied to.

Do the math, the highest you can pay on taxable income of 99k (which will be atleast 8k lower than your salary, at least) is 22%.

You don’t get near 30% range until you are making around 380k as a single tax payer… That is the top 1%.

[/quote]

It does not take much to over whelm this person , nothing hard

2 people
$120,000 gross
FED Income tax $ ?
Social Security $ ?
State of AZ tax $?

another point of disparity is SS Tax the cut off point is a huge disparity

119

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

Who should deside what is fair? The rich? The poor? The Middle?

[/quote]

The middle as the majority of those who fight and die to protect this nation come from there. [/quote]

Actually the majority of those who fight and die to protect this nation come from the wealthiest parts of the country 25% of active come from the top 5th, 40% of reserve come from the top fifth.

120

[quote]jnd wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]jnd wrote:

[quote]TLDR: Conservatives like low-effort thought and Science is witchcraft.
[/quote]

It does not say that conservatives “like” low-effort thought. It says that when people are engaged in low-effort mental processing this promotes politically conservative thoughts, not that political conservatives use low-effort thinking. No need to overstate the result to make your point.

The fact that conservatives propagate lies linking abortion to mental health difficulties (and increased breast cancer risks), and support abstinence-only education is far more damning than this study. Also cannot forget the new gem that women do not get pregnant via “legitimate” rape.

It is just sad how so many people wantonly ignore clear scientific results.

jnd[/quote]

I don’t know anything about claims of abortion affecting mental health difficulties. You’ll have to provide documentation for that gem; however, there is an increased risk of breast cancer when one uses the Pill! I’d have to see documentation for that claim, as well.

However, the last one is blatantly out of context and an actual misquote of Senate Hopeful Akin and ignores the fact that he apologized and said he mixed up his words.

I find it is the left-wing nuts like you that are guilty of the low thought, if by low thought I mean patently false and indefensible by any normal standard of debate.[/quote]

Didn’t realize I was a left wing nut guilty of low thought.

Akin is a tool who got caught expressing his fucked up view of the world. Mixed up his words??? If you want to give him a pass because you want to believe that he is a good christian man that’s on you. This leftwing low thinker likes that he won’t get out of the race.

If you have google use it. I won’t do your research for you. BTW there are about 1.7 million links when you search abortion and breast cancer link.

jnd[/quote]

You want me to produce your own documented sources for you? Lol. That’s not how it works. I’m sure that method worked good with your teachers in school.

Your teacher, “Where is your bibliography or references?”
You, “I won’t do your research for you.”

Listen up, it is not my research. You made a CLAIM, you show EVIDENCE. Otherwise…I just assume since you can’t produce documented sources for your claims you are making false claims and don’t know what you’re talking about.