The is rich and mega unconstitutional…Expect this shit to go all the way to the Supreme Court.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2201918/posts
http://www.cga.ct.gov/2009/TOB/S/2009SB-01098-R00-SB.htm
I call this one of those “oh shit” moments in American history. This violates the very tenets on which this country was founded. This should worry anybody who values freedom.
Who the fuck do these people think they are?
Anybody here support this legislation?
From what I can see (and I am no lawyer) the bill is just saying that if the church organises as a business then it needs to follow slightly more of the legislation around business than it used to.
It’s an existing law that is being amended.
Personally I don’t see why a Catholic Corporation shouldn’t have to follow exactly the same rules as any other corp.
It appears they got the message. It’s been pulled, from my understanding.
Of course it has. With the money and the power that the Church has in the US, if the Church wants a piece of legislation pulled it gets it.
Pretty scary in a country that has official division between the Church and the State.
Decisions made based on the say so of a group that talks to an imaginary friend for advice.
[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
Of course it has. With the money and the power that the Church has in the US, if the Church wants a piece of legislation pulled it gets it.
Pretty scary in a country that has official division between the Church and the State.
Decisions made based on the say so of a group that talks to an imaginary friend for advice.[/quote]
You must be paranoid…Freedom of religion is one of the most concrete tenets in the constitution.
They are awful scared of our imaginary friend.
[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
Of course it has. With the money and the power that the Church has in the US, if the Church wants a piece of legislation pulled it gets it.
Pretty scary in a country that has official division between the Church and the State.
Decisions made based on the say so of a group that talks to an imaginary friend for advice.[/quote]
Ok, now you’re getting a little scary with the atheism. The state has no business in this sphere.
Read this over a couple times, and recall what this legislation involved…
[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
Of course it has. With the money and the power that the Church has in the US, if the Church wants a piece of legislation pulled it gets it.
Pretty scary in a country that has official division between the Church and the State.
Decisions made based on the say so of a group that talks to an imaginary friend for advice.[/quote]
This coming from the guy who believes the IRA to be “Christian bombers” - am I wrong to detect an ever so slight phobia on your behalf?
[quote]JamFly wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
Of course it has. With the money and the power that the Church has in the US, if the Church wants a piece of legislation pulled it gets it.
Pretty scary in a country that has official division between the Church and the State.
Decisions made based on the say so of a group that talks to an imaginary friend for advice.
This coming from the guy who believes the IRA to be “Christian bombers” - am I wrong to detect an ever so slight phobia on your behalf?[/quote]
That was someone else. Though both sides of the argument in the North of Ireland do claim to be Christian therefore I would phrase it as bombers who are Christian not Christian bombers.
[quote]Sloth wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
Of course it has. With the money and the power that the Church has in the US, if the Church wants a piece of legislation pulled it gets it.
Pretty scary in a country that has official division between the Church and the State.
Decisions made based on the say so of a group that talks to an imaginary friend for advice.
Ok, now you’re getting a little scary with the atheism. The state has no business in this sphere.
Pretty scary in a country that has official division between the Church and the State.
Read this over a couple times, and recall what this legislation involved…
[/quote]
Are you seriously going to deny that the Church in the US is extremely powerful and politically connected. US Presidents routinely seek advice from religious leaders. Votes are won and lost on religious matters.
All it takes is a senior religious figure to start ringing around politicians threatening the loss of votes and the politicians step into line.
[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
Of course it has. With the money and the power that the Church has in the US, if the Church wants a piece of legislation pulled it gets it.
Pretty scary in a country that has official division between the Church and the State.
Decisions made based on the say so of a group that talks to an imaginary friend for advice.
Ok, now you’re getting a little scary with the atheism. The state has no business in this sphere.
Pretty scary in a country that has official division between the Church and the State.
Read this over a couple times, and recall what this legislation involved…
Are you seriously going to deny that the Church in the US is extremely powerful and politically connected. US Presidents routinely seek advice from religious leaders. Votes are won and lost on religious matters.
All it takes is a senior religious figure to start ringing around politicians threatening the loss of votes and the politicians step into line.
[/quote]
Voluntary association. And the right to free speech, and to lobby our government. But, what does any of that have to do with this legislation?
[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
Of course it has. With the money and the power that the Church has in the US, if the Church wants a piece of legislation pulled it gets it.
Pretty scary in a country that has official division between the Church and the State.
Decisions made based on the say so of a group that talks to an imaginary friend for advice.
Ok, now you’re getting a little scary with the atheism. The state has no business in this sphere.
Pretty scary in a country that has official division between the Church and the State.
Read this over a couple times, and recall what this legislation involved…
Are you seriously going to deny that the Church in the US is extremely powerful and politically connected. US Presidents routinely seek advice from religious leaders. Votes are won and lost on religious matters.
All it takes is a senior religious figure to start ringing around politicians threatening the loss of votes and the politicians step into line.
[/quote]
Yes…See the current president.Are you advocating removing the church? They hold no office, they deal in church matters.
Cockney Blue: I’m an atheist too but this bill is a DISGUSTING affront to the first amendment. I know you’d like to treat religions the same as any other private organizations, but the fact is, millions of people don’t get their moral code from Starbucks or Walmart.
Religions and religious institutions may not always deserve our respect, but until they start with the human rights violations, they are not our business to mess with.
So, things that force Churchs to do certain things, to organize a certain way, to marry certain people, hell even to let certain people IN are an affront to the liberty of their religious organization.
You don’t have to AGREE or even respect their organization, but you cannot meddle with it beyond talking to it’s members and trying to convince them to come to your side.
The Catholic Church has power in politics, not becaust the Church itself throwes it’s weight, but because their are a lot of Catholics in America, and if you haven’t forgoteen, we live in a Representative Republic. Representatives usually try to keep their constituents happy. And if their most vocal constituents are Catholic, Atheist, Mormon, Jewish, or whatever else, they will pander to them, sometimes rightly so.
It’s the various religions and ideals that keep a Republic in check, preventing it from swaying to one moral extreme or the other. Or at least that is the opinion I’ve always held. It is when EVERYONE latches on to some idea that we get some major issues.
[quote]Beowolf wrote:
Cockney Blue: I’m an atheist too but this bill is a DISGUSTING affront to the first amendment. I know you’d like to treat religions the same as any other private organizations, but the fact is, millions of people don’t get their moral code from Starbucks or Walmart.
Religions and religious institutions may not always deserve our respect, but until they start with the human rights violations, they are not our business to mess with.
So, things that force Churchs to do certain things, to organize a certain way, to marry certain people, hell even to let certain people IN are an affront to the liberty of their religious organization.
You don’t have to AGREE or even respect their organization, but you cannot meddle with it beyond talking to it’s members and trying to convince them to come to your side.
The Catholic Church has power in politics, not becaust the Church itself throwes it’s weight, but because their are a lot of Catholics in America, and if you haven’t forgoteen, we live in a Representative Republic. Representatives usually try to keep their constituents happy. And if their most vocal constituents are Catholic, Atheist, Mormon, Jewish, or whatever else, they will pander to them, sometimes rightly so.
It’s the various religions and ideals that keep a Republic in check, preventing it from swaying to one moral extreme or the other. Or at least that is the opinion I’ve always held. It is when EVERYONE latches on to some idea that we get some major issues.[/quote]
Well said.
[quote]pat wrote:
Beowolf wrote:
Cockney Blue: I’m an atheist too but this bill is a DISGUSTING affront to the first amendment. I know you’d like to treat religions the same as any other private organizations, but the fact is, millions of people don’t get their moral code from Starbucks or Walmart.
Religions and religious institutions may not always deserve our respect, but until they start with the human rights violations, they are not our business to mess with.
So, things that force Churchs to do certain things, to organize a certain way, to marry certain people, hell even to let certain people IN are an affront to the liberty of their religious organization.
You don’t have to AGREE or even respect their organization, but you cannot meddle with it beyond talking to it’s members and trying to convince them to come to your side.
The Catholic Church has power in politics, not becaust the Church itself throwes it’s weight, but because their are a lot of Catholics in America, and if you haven’t forgoteen, we live in a Representative Republic. Representatives usually try to keep their constituents happy.
And if their most vocal constituents are Catholic, Atheist, Mormon, Jewish, or whatever else, they will pander to them, sometimes rightly so.
It’s the various religions and ideals that keep a Republic in check, preventing it from swaying to one moral extreme or the other. Or at least that is the opinion I’ve always held. It is when EVERYONE latches on to some idea that we get some major issues.
Well said.[/quote]
Agreed.
[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
JamFly wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
This coming from the guy who believes the IRA to be “Christian bombers” - am I wrong to detect an ever so slight phobia on your behalf?
That was someone else. Though both sides of the argument in the North of Ireland do claim to be Christian therefore I would phrase it as bombers who are Christian not Christian bombers.[/quote]
No it was YOU and your intent was clear. You said:
Duuuuuude!