Confession

[pittbulll]

[quote]NickViar wrote:
Forgive me, State, for I have sinned. I have questioned You. I have doubted You. But You, Leader, have made me seen the error of my ways. Sometimes, I doubt the necessity of what You do for me. Forgive me, Leader, for I am but a man, and know not what’s best for me. If not for You, how would I even begin my day?

I awake each morning to an alarm from a cellular phone, whose manufacture and sale You no doubt blessed. I shower in water which you have improved by adding fluoride. I sometimes drink milk which You have made safe by mandating pasteurization. I drive to work in a car which You have approved. You keep me safe by putting lines on the road, telling me how fast I can go, telling me where to stop, and by putting a few men in blue polyester around town to make sure I listen to You.

I think I pass the home of a drug dealer on the way to work, but You keep me safe from him by passing laws which will punish me if I purchase his products. I’m pretty positive meth is bad for me, but how would I pass that house without stopping to buy some if not for You? Although You have not yet collected the guns I possess(What are You waiting for?), I trust You to protect me.

I know You are a good leader because I would be powerless to resist You if not. After all, You, and You alone, protect me from those foreigners who do things, lots of things. My guns could not protect me from them, so obviously, my guns are not a deterrent to You, who is far greater than they. Thank You, Leader, for the bountiful freedom you bestow upon me each day, and help me to be a more faithful servant to You.

I pledge allegiance to Your flag.[/quote]

So you think without a collective of people that organize things like roads , water , utilities , food safety and other terrible things, that you would not be living in a ghetto with none of these things ?

[Varqanir]

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]NickViar wrote:
Forgive me, State, for I have sinned. I have questioned You. I have doubted You. But You, Leader, have made me seen the error of my ways. Sometimes, I doubt the necessity of what You do for me. Forgive me, Leader, for I am but a man, and know not what’s best for me. If not for You, how would I even begin my day?

I awake each morning to an alarm from a cellular phone, whose manufacture and sale You no doubt blessed. I shower in water which you have improved by adding fluoride. I sometimes drink milk which You have made safe by mandating pasteurization. I drive to work in a car which You have approved. You keep me safe by putting lines on the road, telling me how fast I can go, telling me where to stop, and by putting a few men in blue polyester around town to make sure I listen to You.

I think I pass the home of a drug dealer on the way to work, but You keep me safe from him by passing laws which will punish me if I purchase his products. I’m pretty positive meth is bad for me, but how would I pass that house without stopping to buy some if not for You? Although You have not yet collected the guns I possess(What are You waiting for?), I trust You to protect me.

I know You are a good leader because I would be powerless to resist You if not. After all, You, and You alone, protect me from those foreigners who do things, lots of things. My guns could not protect me from them, so obviously, my guns are not a deterrent to You, who is far greater than they. Thank You, Leader, for the bountiful freedom you bestow upon me each day, and help me to be a more faithful servant to You.

I pledge allegiance to Your flag.[/quote]

So you think without a collective of people that organize things like roads , water , utilities , food safety and other terrible things, that you would not be living in a ghetto with none of these things ?
[/quote]

Ghettos are also organized by collectives. A ghetto would not be possible without the State.

[pittbulll]

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]NickViar wrote:
Forgive me, State, for I have sinned. I have questioned You. I have doubted You. But You, Leader, have made me seen the error of my ways. Sometimes, I doubt the necessity of what You do for me. Forgive me, Leader, for I am but a man, and know not what’s best for me. If not for You, how would I even begin my day?

I awake each morning to an alarm from a cellular phone, whose manufacture and sale You no doubt blessed. I shower in water which you have improved by adding fluoride. I sometimes drink milk which You have made safe by mandating pasteurization. I drive to work in a car which You have approved. You keep me safe by putting lines on the road, telling me how fast I can go, telling me where to stop, and by putting a few men in blue polyester around town to make sure I listen to You.

I think I pass the home of a drug dealer on the way to work, but You keep me safe from him by passing laws which will punish me if I purchase his products. I’m pretty positive meth is bad for me, but how would I pass that house without stopping to buy some if not for You? Although You have not yet collected the guns I possess(What are You waiting for?), I trust You to protect me.

I know You are a good leader because I would be powerless to resist You if not. After all, You, and You alone, protect me from those foreigners who do things, lots of things. My guns could not protect me from them, so obviously, my guns are not a deterrent to You, who is far greater than they. Thank You, Leader, for the bountiful freedom you bestow upon me each day, and help me to be a more faithful servant to You.

I pledge allegiance to Your flag.[/quote]

So you think without a collective of people that organize things like roads , water , utilities , food safety and other terrible things, that you would not be living in a ghetto with none of these things ?
[/quote]

Ghettos are also organized by collectives. A ghetto would not be possible without the State.
[/quote]

I would disagree they are organized by Chance,Happenstance,accident

[pittbulll]

MY point was not the organization or the lack of , it was that the things he was complaining about are the things that make us NOT some 3rd world ghetto

[pittbulll]

he would not have to tolerate that evil gov here

[Varqanir]

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]NickViar wrote:
Forgive me, State, for I have sinned. I have questioned You. I have doubted You. But You, Leader, have made me seen the error of my ways. Sometimes, I doubt the necessity of what You do for me. Forgive me, Leader, for I am but a man, and know not what’s best for me. If not for You, how would I even begin my day?

I awake each morning to an alarm from a cellular phone, whose manufacture and sale You no doubt blessed. I shower in water which you have improved by adding fluoride. I sometimes drink milk which You have made safe by mandating pasteurization. I drive to work in a car which You have approved. You keep me safe by putting lines on the road, telling me how fast I can go, telling me where to stop, and by putting a few men in blue polyester around town to make sure I listen to You.

I think I pass the home of a drug dealer on the way to work, but You keep me safe from him by passing laws which will punish me if I purchase his products. I’m pretty positive meth is bad for me, but how would I pass that house without stopping to buy some if not for You? Although You have not yet collected the guns I possess(What are You waiting for?), I trust You to protect me.

I know You are a good leader because I would be powerless to resist You if not. After all, You, and You alone, protect me from those foreigners who do things, lots of things. My guns could not protect me from them, so obviously, my guns are not a deterrent to You, who is far greater than they. Thank You, Leader, for the bountiful freedom you bestow upon me each day, and help me to be a more faithful servant to You.

I pledge allegiance to Your flag.[/quote]

So you think without a collective of people that organize things like roads , water , utilities , food safety and other terrible things, that you would not be living in a ghetto with none of these things ?
[/quote]

Ghettos are also organized by collectives. A ghetto would not be possible without the State.
[/quote]

I would disagree they are organized by Chance,Happenstance,accident
[/quote]

Ghettos are organized by planning and populated by design, whether in the third world or in the first. People don’t choose to live in ghettos for the most part. They have no choice: the choice is made for them by other people who have very precise political reasons for them to be there.

[Varqanir]

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
he would not have to tolerate that evil gov here [/quote]

He would have to tolerate a different evil government there. Surely you don’t imagine that this picture depicts a community made up of free individuals who have elected to live this way? Show me a slum, and I will show you a government who has a vested interest in keeping the people living there in those conditions.

[ZJStrope]

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]NickViar wrote:
Forgive me, State, for I have sinned. I have questioned You. I have doubted You. But You, Leader, have made me seen the error of my ways. Sometimes, I doubt the necessity of what You do for me. Forgive me, Leader, for I am but a man, and know not what’s best for me. If not for You, how would I even begin my day?

I awake each morning to an alarm from a cellular phone, whose manufacture and sale You no doubt blessed. I shower in water which you have improved by adding fluoride. I sometimes drink milk which You have made safe by mandating pasteurization. I drive to work in a car which You have approved. You keep me safe by putting lines on the road, telling me how fast I can go, telling me where to stop, and by putting a few men in blue polyester around town to make sure I listen to You.

I think I pass the home of a drug dealer on the way to work, but You keep me safe from him by passing laws which will punish me if I purchase his products. I’m pretty positive meth is bad for me, but how would I pass that house without stopping to buy some if not for You? Although You have not yet collected the guns I possess(What are You waiting for?), I trust You to protect me.

I know You are a good leader because I would be powerless to resist You if not. After all, You, and You alone, protect me from those foreigners who do things, lots of things. My guns could not protect me from them, so obviously, my guns are not a deterrent to You, who is far greater than they. Thank You, Leader, for the bountiful freedom you bestow upon me each day, and help me to be a more faithful servant to You.

I pledge allegiance to Your flag.[/quote]

So you think without a collective of people that organize things like roads , water , utilities , food safety and other terrible things, that you would not be living in a ghetto with none of these things ?
[/quote]

Ghettos are also organized by collectives. A ghetto would not be possible without the State.
[/quote]

I would disagree they are organized by Chance,Happenstance,accident
[/quote]

Ghettos are organized by planning and populated by design, whether in the third world or in the first. People don’t choose to live in ghettos for the most part. They have no choice: the choice is made for them by other people who have very precise political reasons for them to be there.[/quote]

Exactly. Rent-Seeking governments = ghetto.

[pittbulll]

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]NickViar wrote:
Forgive me, State, for I have sinned. I have questioned You. I have doubted You. But You, Leader, have made me seen the error of my ways. Sometimes, I doubt the necessity of what You do for me. Forgive me, Leader, for I am but a man, and know not what’s best for me. If not for You, how would I even begin my day?

I awake each morning to an alarm from a cellular phone, whose manufacture and sale You no doubt blessed. I shower in water which you have improved by adding fluoride. I sometimes drink milk which You have made safe by mandating pasteurization. I drive to work in a car which You have approved. You keep me safe by putting lines on the road, telling me how fast I can go, telling me where to stop, and by putting a few men in blue polyester around town to make sure I listen to You.

I think I pass the home of a drug dealer on the way to work, but You keep me safe from him by passing laws which will punish me if I purchase his products. I’m pretty positive meth is bad for me, but how would I pass that house without stopping to buy some if not for You? Although You have not yet collected the guns I possess(What are You waiting for?), I trust You to protect me.

I know You are a good leader because I would be powerless to resist You if not. After all, You, and You alone, protect me from those foreigners who do things, lots of things. My guns could not protect me from them, so obviously, my guns are not a deterrent to You, who is far greater than they. Thank You, Leader, for the bountiful freedom you bestow upon me each day, and help me to be a more faithful servant to You.

I pledge allegiance to Your flag.[/quote]

So you think without a collective of people that organize things like roads , water , utilities , food safety and other terrible things, that you would not be living in a ghetto with none of these things ?
[/quote]

Ghettos are also organized by collectives. A ghetto would not be possible without the State.
[/quote]

I would disagree they are organized by Chance,Happenstance,accident
[/quote]

Ghettos are organized by planning and populated by design, whether in the third world or in the first. People don’t choose to live in ghettos for the most part. They have no choice: the choice is made for them by other people who have very precise political reasons for them to be there.[/quote]

I will say American Ghettos are organized by some one that is not representative .
Maybe all ghettos are

I would even change my original statement that ghettos aren’t a collective , they are but they are not an organized collective

I think that may be our present problem with our GOV. They are not representative and we have little say on the way they are organizing .

My original point was infrastructure would not happen for all , but for those that could afford it , if not for GOV

It is easy to sit back and criticize and I think throwing the baby out with the bath water is foolhardy

I doubt there would be much Gov intervention. You would probably have more trouble with want to be Gov

[NickViar]

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
I will say American Ghettos are organized by some one that is not representative .
Maybe all ghettos are

I would even change my original statement that ghettos aren’t a collective , they are but they are not an organized collective

I think that may be our present problem with our GOV. They are not representative and we have little say on the way they are organizing .

My original point was infrastructure would not happen for all , but for those that could afford it , if not for GOV

It is easy to sit back and criticize and I think throwing the baby out with the bath water is foolhardy

I doubt there would be much Gov intervention. You would probably have more trouble with want to be Gov
[/quote]

The problem with our government, and really all governments, no matter how representatives are chosen, is that it is far TOO representative. The will of the majority is enforced at the expense of the minority. That is the only way the State can exist.

[pittbulll]

[quote]NickViar wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
I will say American Ghettos are organized by some one that is not representative .
Maybe all ghettos are

I would even change my original statement that ghettos aren’t a collective , they are but they are not an organized collective

I think that may be our present problem with our GOV. They are not representative and we have little say on the way they are organizing .

My original point was infrastructure would not happen for all , but for those that could afford it , if not for GOV

It is easy to sit back and criticize and I think throwing the baby out with the bath water is foolhardy

I doubt there would be much Gov intervention. You would probably have more trouble with want to be Gov
[/quote]

The problem with our government, and really all governments, no matter how representatives are chosen, is that it is far TOO representative. The will of the majority is enforced at the expense of the minoroty. That is the only way the State can exist.
[/quote]

In America’s case I would say that the only will being enforced is the will of our elected officials .

I do think there are many cases other than the war on drugs where the majority are disinformed to the extent of the majority controlling the minority with out good cause.

You need rules . The pict of the ghetto in Africa . Sanitation would be one rule , I am sure hard to enforce but worth the effort

[NickViar]

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
In America’s case I would say that the only will being enforced is the will of our elected officials .

I do think there are many cases other than the war on drugs where the majority are disinformed to the extent of the majority controlling the minority with out good cause.

You need rules . The pict of the ghetto in Africa . Sanitation would be one rule , I am sure hard to enforce but worth the effort
[/quote]

Ah, you see the problem with a government which represents the will of the majority. Elected officials need only convince the ignorant majority that A,B,C need to be done in order to make it happen.

How do you think the government would even write a “sanitation rule” for that community?

[pittbulll]

[quote]NickViar wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
In America’s case I would say that the only will being enforced is the will of our elected officials .

I do think there are many cases other than the war on drugs where the majority are disinformed to the extent of the majority controlling the minority with out good cause.

You need rules . The pict of the ghetto in Africa . Sanitation would be one rule , I am sure hard to enforce but worth the effort
[/quote]

Ah, you see the problem with a government which represents the will of the majority. Elected officials need only convince the ignorant majority that A,B,C need to be done in order to make it happen.

How do you think the government would even write a “sanitation rule” for that community? [/quote]

If I were king of that ghetto , I would charge a tax , I would convince the village they need to move because it is unsanitary there , I would go in put in a sewer system , put in a well and build they village around that , I would save and have a couple sites that had access to electricity via solar panels . Tax would be a MUST . You can not build infrastructure with out money

[NickViar]

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
If I were king of that ghetto , I would charge a tax , I would convince the village they need to move because it is unsanitary there , I would go in put in a sewer system , put in a well and build they village around that , I would save and have a couple sites that had access to electricity via solar panels . Tax would be a MUST . You can not build infrastructure with out money [/quote]
That’s a good idea. I’m on board. It looks like taxing those folks would be very lucrative.

[pittbulll]

[quote]NickViar wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
If I were king of that ghetto , I would charge a tax , I would convince the village they need to move because it is unsanitary there , I would go in put in a sewer system , put in a well and build they village around that , I would save and have a couple sites that had access to electricity via solar panels . Tax would be a MUST . You can not build infrastructure with out money [/quote]
That’s a good idea. I’m on board. It looks like taxing those folks would be very lucrative.[/quote]

You know if we could get some infrastructure and a functioning GOV we might get some private enterprise to gainfully employ some of the residents

[NickViar]

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]NickViar wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
If I were king of that ghetto , I would charge a tax , I would convince the village they need to move because it is unsanitary there , I would go in put in a sewer system , put in a well and build they village around that , I would save and have a couple sites that had access to electricity via solar panels . Tax would be a MUST . You can not build infrastructure with out money [/quote]
That’s a good idea. I’m on board. It looks like taxing those folks would be very lucrative.[/quote]

You know if we could get some infrastructure and a functioning GOV we might get some private enterprise to gainfully employ some of the residents [/quote]

Already having the money, apparently, why do those folks not take care of their infrastructure problem on their own?

[pittbulll]

[quote]NickViar wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]NickViar wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
If I were king of that ghetto , I would charge a tax , I would convince the village they need to move because it is unsanitary there , I would go in put in a sewer system , put in a well and build they village around that , I would save and have a couple sites that had access to electricity via solar panels . Tax would be a MUST . You can not build infrastructure with out money [/quote]
That’s a good idea. I’m on board. It looks like taxing those folks would be very lucrative.[/quote]

You know if we could get some infrastructure and a functioning GOV we might get some private enterprise to gainfully employ some of the residents [/quote]

Already having the money, apparently, why do those folks not take care of their infrastructure problem on their own?[/quote]

You mean why don’t they form their own GOV. Probably when you talk tax , the people that do have money to tax are going to get all butt hurt and demagoguge the process.

I think in many cases people do not understand that what is best for all is best for them unless they are a predator or parasite

[NickViar]

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
You mean why don’t they form their own GOV. Probably when you talk tax , the people that do have money to tax are going to get all butt hurt and demagoguge the process.

I think in many cases people do not understand that what is best for all is best for them unless they are a predator or parasite
[/quote]

In other words you do, in fact, believe those folks choose to live that way, correct? I guess my next question is, why should somebody else get to decide what is best for them?

It seems to me that the War on Drugs also revolves around the belief that some people have to tell others what is best for them. Thank goodness for that, right?

[pittbulll]

[quote]NickViar wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
You mean why don’t they form their own GOV. Probably when you talk tax , the people that do have money to tax are going to get all butt hurt and demagoguge the process.

I think in many cases people do not understand that what is best for all is best for them unless they are a predator or parasite
[/quote]

In other words you do, in fact, believe those folks choose to live that way, correct? I guess my next question is, why should somebody else get to decide what is best for them?

It seems to me that the War on Drugs also revolves around the belief that some people have to tell others what is best for them. Thank goodness for that, right?[/quote]

No , I don’t think they choose to live that way. I think they uneducated and do not understand how to better their existence …

The war on drugs does not All come from some one wanting to control another . IMO The people that want status quo are the ones that are profiting from the war on drugs , Being (COPS) with out the WOD we would have to get rid of %70 because they would have nothing to do . Prison systems (PRIVATE PRISONS WOULD LOSE MONEY AND GO BANKRUPT) Now the municipalities are having multiple orgasms over the money they get to confiscate

Back to the main subject , I will compare a small company to our GOV . Lets say in this small company we have have 1 employee that constantly complains and bitches about how the company sucks . The company would fire him because he is causing problems and that is effecting moral and production .

Our Gov can not fire these problems . So we have groups that stir up the shit . And mostly the shit they are stirring is nonsense . But the people that are stirring the shit know that will create problems .

I think Libertarianism is one such way to stir the pot . I personally consider myself a libertarian . But you can not do away with all laws and regulations . You have to be careful actions have consequences

[NickViar]

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]NickViar wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
You mean why don’t they form their own GOV. Probably when you talk tax , the people that do have money to tax are going to get all butt hurt and demagoguge the process.

I think in many cases people do not understand that what is best for all is best for them unless they are a predator or parasite
[/quote]

In other words you do, in fact, believe those folks choose to live that way, correct? I guess my next question is, why should somebody else get to decide what is best for them?

It seems to me that the War on Drugs also revolves around the belief that some people have to tell others what is best for them. Thank goodness for that, right?[/quote]

No , I don’t think they choose to live that way. I think they uneducated and do not understand how to better their existence …

The war on drugs does not All come from some one wanting to control another . IMO The people that want status quo are the ones that are profiting from the war on drugs , Being (COPS) with out the WOD we would have to get rid of %70 because they would have nothing to do . Prison systems (PRIVATE PRISONS WOULD LOSE MONEY AND GO BANKRUPT) Now the municipalities are having multiple orgasms over the money they get to confiscate

Back to the main subject , I will compare a small company to our GOV . Lets say in this small company we have have 1 employee that constantly complains and bitches about how the company sucks . The company would fire him because he is causing problems and that is effecting moral and production .

Our Gov can not fire these problems . So we have groups that stir up the shit . And mostly the shit they are stirring is nonsense . But the people that are stirring the shit know that will create problems .

I think Libertarianism is one such way to stir the pot . I personally consider myself a libertarian . But you can not do away with all laws and regulations . You have to be careful actions have consequences
[/quote]

Would you be in favor of the government being able to “fire these problems?”

In what way are you a libertarian?