Condoleeza Rice Takes On Obama

[quote]pushharder wrote:
Bis, arguing for Iran to have The Bomb is so hopelessly beyond the pale that indeed, it deserves no response. It is lunacy of the highest order.

It’s like advocating that pedophiles be allowed to uninhibitedly run private kindergartens.[/quote]

When someone as prominent as Waltz writes something, it’s beneficial for students (all who are interested in the subject) of international relations and security studies to give his argument consideration with an open mind. One doesn’t have to agree with his thesis (I don’t, but it’s not because I believe that the Iranian regime would commit nuclear suicide) but it strengthens one’s own views by tempering them against the well formulated positions of others. It’s intellectually lazy to do otherwise. In this case, especially so considering how succint and to the point his essay is.

So the NPT is a coup for Iran but preventing Iran from becoming a nuclear weapons state is a preeminent concern of American foreign policy? Which one is it Sexrobot?

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]Bismark wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]Bismark wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]Bismark wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]Bismark wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

I’m not saying he necessarily deserved a novel prize, but Obama’s recommitment to the the non-proliferation regime in general and the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons (NPT) in particular deserve nothing but praise, along with his establishment of the biennial Nuclear Security Summit aimed at preventing nuclear terrorism [/quote]

A coup for Iran:

Rouhani calls on Israel to sign Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty ‘without delay’ - Jerusalem Post

[/quote]

Iran is a member. God forbid Israel become party to one of the most important security regimes in history.[/quote]

I know Iran is a member. They signed on in 1970, nine years before the IslamNazi regime came to power. I wonder which would have a more stabilising effect on the region: Israel with nuclear weapons and Iran without or a nuclear Iran and a nuclear free Israel .
[/quote]

Or both a la mode de Kenneth Waltz. His argument is interesting, not that I necessarily agree.

http://m.foreignaffairs.com/articles/137731/kenneth-n-waltz/why-iran-should-get-the-bomb[/quote]

Kenneth Waltz arguing that Iran should have the bomb? Surely you’re not serious? You’re serious?
[/quote]

He’s widely regarded as one of the most prominent scholars in international relations and is the founder of neorealism, a school which has dominated the discipline and American foreign policy. If you disagree with his thesis, go through the article point by point and dispute it. [/quote]

I know who he was. Daniel Pipes called him the stupidest strategist when he published that article. I don’t have time to wade through horseshit.
[/quote]

Do I refute an argument when I insult someone’s intelligence and then complain about putting in the intellectual groundwork? My thesis just became exponentially easier.

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]Bismark wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]Bismarck wrote:

…along with his establishment of the biennial Nuclear Security Summit aimed at preventing nuclear terrorism [/quote]

‘The leaders discussed North Korea, cybersecurity, maritime disputes, and Crimea - but not nuclear security.’ - the Diplomat[/quote]

You seem to be arguing for the sake of arguing. Your quick google search to research the NSS didn’t serve you as well as it should have. Here are the highlights from NSS 2014.

http://www.cfr.org/arms-control-disarmament-and-nonproliferation/nuclear-security-summit-statements/p21897[/quote]

Inspiring…[/quote]

It would be inspiring to you if someone with an (R) behind their name had Initiated. Which way is the wind blowing today?

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]Bismark wrote:

…it strengthens one’s own views by tempering them against the well formulated positions of others…

[/quote]

I don’t need to strengthen my views by tempering them in regards to kindergartners being schooled by pedophiles. Nor do I…Iran…Bomb…Waltz…
[/quote]

That logic behind your analogy is crude. Yes, because I’m sure you’re extremely well read on defensive realism and nuclear peace theory and couldn’t possibly learn more about either.

[quote]Bismark wrote:
So the NPT is a coup for Iran but preventing Iran from becoming a nuclear weapons state is a preeminent concern of American foreign policy? Which one is it Sexrobot?[/quote]

Both. If Iran is not required to adhere to the treaty itself but merely makes political capital from it or forces one sided concessions from Israel then it wins.

[quote]Bismark wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]Bismark wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]Bismark wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]Bismark wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

I’m not saying he necessarily deserved a novel prize, but Obama’s recommitment to the the non-proliferation regime in general and the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons (NPT) in particular deserve nothing but praise, along with his establishment of the biennial Nuclear Security Summit aimed at preventing nuclear terrorism [/quote]

A coup for Iran:

Rouhani calls on Israel to sign Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty ‘without delay’ - Jerusalem Post

[/quote]

Iran is a member. God forbid Israel become party to one of the most important security regimes in history.[/quote]

I know Iran is a member. They signed on in 1970, nine years before the IslamNazi regime came to power. I wonder which would have a more stabilising effect on the region: Israel with nuclear weapons and Iran without or a nuclear Iran and a nuclear free Israel .
[/quote]

Or both a la mode de Kenneth Waltz. His argument is interesting, not that I necessarily agree.

http://m.foreignaffairs.com/articles/137731/kenneth-n-waltz/why-iran-should-get-the-bomb[/quote]

Kenneth Waltz arguing that Iran should have the bomb? Surely you’re not serious? You’re serious?
[/quote]

He’s widely regarded as one of the most prominent scholars in international relations and is the founder of neorealism, a school which has dominated the discipline and American foreign policy. If you disagree with his thesis, go through the article point by point and dispute it. [/quote]

He puts a whole lot of faith in the regime. Sane Ayatolas? He’s assuming that Iran would act more sane under the umbrella of nuclear protection, despite their rhetoric? I don’t think you can trust a country whose stated goal is to wipe Israel off the map with a nuclear weapon purely for defence purposes?
I don’t think using N. Korea as an example of how safe nuclear proliferation in enemy states who are bat shit crazy was a terrific analogy as to why Iran should get the bomb.
Oh so, N. Korea hasn’t used it…yet. But do we need yet another bag of nut jobs threatening everybody all the time? Having a nuclear Iran would not stabilize the region, as they would feel well protected in ramping up their rhetoric provoking an ever jumpy Israel who lives in a region who wouldn’t mind seeing every man woman and child from Israel murdered, in to action.

And we should trust that U.S. surveillance of the area is so good, that there is no way Iran couldn’t sneak some spare parts to terrorist groups without our notice? That’s just flat naive.

The only thing stopping diplomacy with Iran is Iran. There is zero reason to believe that a nuclearized Iran would be any easier to deal with. They weren’t all diplomatic before they had All built on the false premise that we have not nuked each other yet. Just because we haven’t had a full scale nuclear war by now doesn’t mean that an unstable power base as in the one Iran has couldn’t provoke one.
It’s frightening that this guy prominent scholar of international relations. The ‘just give’em what they want’ attitude doesn’t work, especially with crazies.

Missile defense on Russia’s door step is a bad idea, because it has the potential to undermine the stabilizing doctrine of MAD. It would present the Russian Federation with a security dilemma (a dilemma of interpretation and then a dilemma of response) which could lead to a vicious circle of insecurity as both sides procure greater numbers of increasingly sophisticated weapon systems to counter the other’s relative gains, resulting in heightened feelings of insecurity in both which drastically increases the chance of conflict. This is know as a security paradox. NATO expansion into the States traditionally in the Russian sphere of influence and increasingly pervasive western influence presents Russia with another security dilemma and precipitated the crisis in Crimea.

Another example of BHO’s weakness, intentionally depriving us of another diplomatic tool to contain Russia’s adventures:

“John Kerry told the Senate Foreign Relations Committee on Tuesday that “Russian provocateurs” had infiltrated eastern Ukraine in order to foment “an illegal and illegitimate effort to destabilize a sovereign state and create a contrived crisis.” Also on Tuesday, the Pentagon announced steep cuts to U.S. nuclear forces, four years ahead of schedule, in accordance with the 2010 New Start treaty with Russia.”

[quote]DrSkeptix wrote:
Another example of BHO’s weakness, intentionally depriving us of another diplomatic tool to contain Russia’s adventures:

“John Kerry told the Senate Foreign Relations Committee on Tuesday that “Russian provocateurs” had infiltrated eastern Ukraine in order to foment “an illegal and illegitimate effort to destabilize a sovereign state and create a contrived crisis.” Also on Tuesday, the Pentagon announced steep cuts to U.S. nuclear forces, four years ahead of schedule, in accordance with the 2010 New Start treaty with Russia.”

Atomic diplomacy? Are you serious? What is this, 1945-1952? Anyone who is passably familiar with the offense-defense balance and strategic nuclear weapons understands that they are inherently defensive in nature and serve as the ultimate deterrent, not as tools of “diplomacy”. If I put a gun to your head and tell you I will pull the trigger unless you cooperate, am I being diplomatic?

Even International Relations Realists; scholars and practitioners who believe in a Hobbesian world where power manifested as material capabilities is the ultima ratio in world politics; would find your argument to be naive to an alarming degree. You’re obviously wholly ignorant of the non-proliferation regime, are an ideological fundamentalist, or the most likely possibility, both. The United States is legally and morally obligated to reduce it’s nuclear arsenal. It has been since 1968.

Article VI of the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons (NPT) states that the nuclear weapons States those who had detonated a nuclear device before the treaty entered into effect; US, USSR, UK, France, and China are “to pursue negotiations in good faith on effective measures relating to cessation of the nuclear arms race at an early date and to nuclear disarmament, and on a treaty on general and complete disarmament under strict and effective international control.”

The direct violation of article VI (i.e, vertical proliferation, one of the P5 increasing the quantity of their nuclear arsenal) would constitute a material breach of the NPT, which would give the non-nuclear weapons States (NNWS) a legal and moral basis to disregard their article II obligations.

Article II states that the NNWS are “not to receive the transfer . . . whatsoever of nuclear weapons . . . or of control over [them].” Additionally, the NNWS are required
“not to manufacture or otherwise acquire nuclear weapons” nor “to seek or receive any assistance in the manufacture of nuclear weapons.”

Obviously a cascade of horizontal proliferation (NNWS joining the nuclear club) is a scenario the United States would like to avoid, and the Obama administration’s decision to recommit to the non-proliferation regime was a sage one.

http://www.un.org/en/conf/npt/2005/npttreaty.html

[quote]pushharder wrote:
LOL

Your turn, Doc. Go git 'im![/quote]

“The eagle does not hunt flies.”

[quote]pushharder wrote:
LOL

Your turn, Doc. Go git 'im![/quote]

I’m outclassed Push. He’s the real Hegemonster. He even thought there were 3 hegemons during the biploarity of the Cold War.

[quote]DrSkeptix wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:
LOL

Your turn, Doc. Go git 'im![/quote]

“The eagle does not hunt flies.”[/quote]

Says the man who was obviously wholly ignorant of the NPT while criticizing START II as weakness, a position that the staunchest of Offensive Realists wouldn’t subscribe to. The people you “discuss” foreign policy with at a dinner party may not know IR 101, but hey, neither do you.

Why am I wasting my time? He won’t address the complete refutation of his reflexive views of international politics. He’ll simply say “an eagle does not hunt flies” , “You’re a highly confused young man” or “I’m a medical doctor and that means I’m a subject matter expert on anything presently in discussion even if I have no training in it” while his cheerleaders tell me how wrong I am without providing any actual evidence of this being the case. The good Dr. will then scamper off to find someone who doesn’t call him on his bullshit.

So for the sake of discussion, the floor is open to anyone who believes that I am incorrect and that Dr. Ostensibly Omniscient (how Pushesque of me, I always enjoy those rhetorical flourishes) is indeed too above me to prove his position.

[quote]DrSkeptix wrote:
Another example of BHO’s weakness, intentionally depriving us of another diplomatic tool to contain Russia’s adventures:

“John Kerry told the Senate Foreign Relations Committee on Tuesday that “Russian provocateurs” had infiltrated eastern Ukraine in order to foment “an illegal and illegitimate effort to destabilize a sovereign state and create a contrived crisis.” Also on Tuesday, the Pentagon announced steep cuts to U.S. nuclear forces, four years ahead of schedule, in accordance with the 2010 New Start treaty with Russia.”

Also, who believes that the WSJ is a paragon of FP analysis and seeks it out as such? Is it because they leave out the academic and professional jargon you don’t understand? If I’m seeking authoritative medical analysis, should I also consult the WSJ?

[quote]DrSkeptix wrote:

“The eagle does not hunt flies.”[/quote]

I found your eagle avatar. I believe his attractiveness roughly correlates with your command of elementary concepts in international relations.