Concept of Infinity

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
542

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
<<< Out of curiosity, not criticism, what sect of Christianity do you pray for him to become?[/quote]If by “sect” you mean specific church or denomination? That misses the point. Saving grace is found in the person and work of Jesus Christ whose true body, His church, consists of all those genuinely called and regenerated unto new life in Him. I pray for Ephrem and abuncha other guys (and a couple girls) around here all the time.

Individually, by name. My prayer is simply that God would subdue their stubborn will and raise them from death to life thereby showing Himself mighty in the Earth as they become living testimonies to His grace, love and power. I tell Him how honored I would be if He should be so generous as to allow me to be used on His behalf and that He would always please season my speech with grace and that He would save me from the deadly poison of self righteousness in as far that depends on me. There’s also some individual stuff that is not for public consumption.

The Lord will take care of where they fellowship if any are truly His elect and respond to His call. There is no “my sect” that nobody can really know God without if that’s what you’re asking me.[/quote]

But not a catholic?

543

DD, why do you consider infinity to be supernatural? Do you think it is supernatural that time passes differently for two observers, based on the speed at which they are traveling? Just because it doesn’t resonate with our everyday experience doesn’t mean it becomes magical.

Manner cannot exist of its own accord? Matter, energy, and time exist whether or not we give them permission to exist.

544

[quote]Rational Gaze wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:
Do you accept the Cosmic Background Radiation as proof of the Big Bang?
[/quote]

You don’t even need that. Using highschool calculus, and assuming expansion, the strong energy condition, and isotropy you can show there was necessarily a big bang. You can relax isotropy and do it more generally, which is the content of the Hawking-Penrose theorem.[/quote]

Black holes still aren’t entirely proven, much less a black hole that contained all the matter in the universe. And calculating the regression of matter to a black hole is not simple math.

545

[quote]forlife wrote:
DD, why do you consider infinity to be supernatural? Do you think it is supernatural that time passes differently for two observers, based on the speed at which they are traveling? Just because it doesn’t resonate with our everyday experience doesn’t mean it becomes magical.

Manner cannot exist of its own accord? Matter, energy, and time exist whether or not we give them permission to exist. [/quote]

Infinity is just a concept. It isn’t a real thing. It’s a moving target. You guys are treating it as a number, and it is not.

And I understand time dilation, but that isn’t what I’m referring to. lim x->infinity is generally an answer that literally can never be. lim x->infinity of 1/x is zero, even though 1/x is never zero and cannot be zero. So yes, it is a mystic concept that doesn’t actually exist.

And I think you missed my point in that last part.

546

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
Black holes still aren’t entirely proven, much less a black hole that contained all the matter in the universe. And calculating the regression of matter to a black hole is not simple math.[/quote]

It’s a singularity, not a black hole. It is incredibly simple, you just use the Friedmann equations and integrate to prove that the scale factor is zero at some time t_0. Highschool calculus.

547

[quote]Rational Gaze wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
Black holes still aren’t entirely proven, much less a black hole that contained all the matter in the universe. And calculating the regression of matter to a black hole is not simple math.[/quote]

It’s a singularity, not a black hole. It is incredibly simple, you just use the Friedmann equations and integrate to prove that the scale factor is zero at some time t_0. Highschool calculus.[/quote]

A singularity causes a black hole. sorry I used the terms interchangeably.

Friedmann equations ignore the quantum aspects of a singularity. You cannot prove a singularity with them. Hawking is the one who figured it out the math much much later.

548

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]forlife wrote:
DD, why do you consider infinity to be supernatural? Do you think it is supernatural that time passes differently for two observers, based on the speed at which they are traveling? Just because it doesn’t resonate with our everyday experience doesn’t mean it becomes magical.

Manner cannot exist of its own accord? Matter, energy, and time exist whether or not we give them permission to exist. [/quote]

Infinity is just a concept. It isn’t a real thing. It’s a moving target. You guys are treating it as a number, and it is not.

And I understand time dilation, but that isn’t what I’m referring to. lim x->infinity is generally an answer that literally can never be. lim x->infinity of 1/x is zero, even though 1/x is never zero and cannot be zero. So yes, it is a mystic concept that doesn’t actually exist.

And I think you missed my point in that last part.[/quote]

You don’t know infinity is just a concept. Furthermore, don’t you believe your god is infinite?

I don’t see why you’re having such a hard time with the idea of infinity. Do you believe matter/energy can’t be created or destroyed, per the First Law of Thermodynamics? If matter/energy can exist forever going forward, what is so hard to fathom about matter/energy existing forever going backward?

Reality isn’t always intuitive. Einstein turned science on its head by demonstrating facts about the universe, like the relativity of time, that people would have insisted were fantasy. Why is infinite matter and energy any different?

549

[quote]forlife wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]forlife wrote:
DD, why do you consider infinity to be supernatural? Do you think it is supernatural that time passes differently for two observers, based on the speed at which they are traveling? Just because it doesn’t resonate with our everyday experience doesn’t mean it becomes magical.

Manner cannot exist of its own accord? Matter, energy, and time exist whether or not we give them permission to exist. [/quote]

Infinity is just a concept. It isn’t a real thing. It’s a moving target. You guys are treating it as a number, and it is not.

And I understand time dilation, but that isn’t what I’m referring to. lim x->infinity is generally an answer that literally can never be. lim x->infinity of 1/x is zero, even though 1/x is never zero and cannot be zero. So yes, it is a mystic concept that doesn’t actually exist.

And I think you missed my point in that last part.[/quote]

You don’t know infinity is just a concept. Furthermore, don’t you believe your god is infinite?

I don’t see why you’re having such a hard time with the idea of infinity. Do you believe matter/energy can’t be created or destroyed, per the First Law of Thermodynamics? If matter/energy can exist forever going forward, what is so hard to fathom about matter/energy existing forever going backward?

Reality isn’t always intuitive. Einstein turned science on its head by demonstrating facts about the universe, like the relativity of time, that people would have insisted were fantasy. Why is infinite matter and energy any different? [/quote]

Yes, infinity is just a concept, much like god. I’m not having a hard time with infinity, because it is impossible for anyone to understand it.

And this last part just completely omitted all I talked about with time versus an uncaused cause.

550

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:
[/quote]Sorry, your family is dysfunctional. I pass.

Indeed it is. Being wholly comprised of wholly dysfunctional and undone individuals who by His grace recognize themselves as such and seek His holy face that they may be increasingly transformed into the image of His perfection and purity. Resurrected spiritual corpses though resurrected indeed, retain some of the stench of death until His return when this corruption shall put on the incorruptible. The whole world is dysfunctional Eph. Look around.[/quote]

Your “Holier than thou” attitude is what i call dysfunctional.

Yeah yeah, i know: you don’t want to be holier than me, and you realise that’s the impression you give, but they, that’s just the way things are.

blows a kiss

551

[quote]Rational Gaze wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:
Do you accept the Cosmic Background Radiation as proof of the Big Bang?
[/quote]

You don’t even need that. Using highschool calculus, and assuming expansion, the strong energy condition, and isotropy you can show there was necessarily a big bang. You can relax isotropy and do it more generally, which is the content of the Hawking-Penrose theorem.[/quote]

Cool.

552

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Rational Gaze wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:
Do you accept the Cosmic Background Radiation as proof of the Big Bang?
[/quote]

You don’t even need that. Using highschool calculus, and assuming expansion, the strong energy condition, and isotropy you can show there was necessarily a big bang. You can relax isotropy and do it more generally, which is the content of the Hawking-Penrose theorem.[/quote]

Black holes still aren’t entirely proven, much less a black hole that contained all the matter in the universe. And calculating the regression of matter to a black hole is not simple math.[/quote]

The singularity from which the universe was formed wouldn’t have been a black hole.

553

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]forlife wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]forlife wrote:
DD, why do you consider infinity to be supernatural? Do you think it is supernatural that time passes differently for two observers, based on the speed at which they are traveling? Just because it doesn’t resonate with our everyday experience doesn’t mean it becomes magical.

Manner cannot exist of its own accord? Matter, energy, and time exist whether or not we give them permission to exist. [/quote]

Infinity is just a concept. It isn’t a real thing. It’s a moving target. You guys are treating it as a number, and it is not.

And I understand time dilation, but that isn’t what I’m referring to. lim x->infinity is generally an answer that literally can never be. lim x->infinity of 1/x is zero, even though 1/x is never zero and cannot be zero. So yes, it is a mystic concept that doesn’t actually exist.

And I think you missed my point in that last part.[/quote]

You don’t know infinity is just a concept. Furthermore, don’t you believe your god is infinite?

I don’t see why you’re having such a hard time with the idea of infinity. Do you believe matter/energy can’t be created or destroyed, per the First Law of Thermodynamics? If matter/energy can exist forever going forward, what is so hard to fathom about matter/energy existing forever going backward?

Reality isn’t always intuitive. Einstein turned science on its head by demonstrating facts about the universe, like the relativity of time, that people would have insisted were fantasy. Why is infinite matter and energy any different? [/quote]

Yes, infinity is just a concept, much like god. I’m not having a hard time with infinity, because it is impossible for anyone to understand it.

And this last part just completely omitted all I talked about with time versus an uncaused cause.[/quote]

I realize you don’t understand infinity. What I don’t get is why you think this means infinity must be supernatural, any more than time dilation is supernatural?

554

[quote]forlife wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]forlife wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]forlife wrote:
DD, why do you consider infinity to be supernatural? Do you think it is supernatural that time passes differently for two observers, based on the speed at which they are traveling? Just because it doesn’t resonate with our everyday experience doesn’t mean it becomes magical.

Manner cannot exist of its own accord? Matter, energy, and time exist whether or not we give them permission to exist. [/quote]

Infinity is just a concept. It isn’t a real thing. It’s a moving target. You guys are treating it as a number, and it is not.

And I understand time dilation, but that isn’t what I’m referring to. lim x->infinity is generally an answer that literally can never be. lim x->infinity of 1/x is zero, even though 1/x is never zero and cannot be zero. So yes, it is a mystic concept that doesn’t actually exist.

And I think you missed my point in that last part.[/quote]

You don’t know infinity is just a concept. Furthermore, don’t you believe your god is infinite?

I don’t see why you’re having such a hard time with the idea of infinity. Do you believe matter/energy can’t be created or destroyed, per the First Law of Thermodynamics? If matter/energy can exist forever going forward, what is so hard to fathom about matter/energy existing forever going backward?

Reality isn’t always intuitive. Einstein turned science on its head by demonstrating facts about the universe, like the relativity of time, that people would have insisted were fantasy. Why is infinite matter and energy any different? [/quote]

Yes, infinity is just a concept, much like god. I’m not having a hard time with infinity, because it is impossible for anyone to understand it.

And this last part just completely omitted all I talked about with time versus an uncaused cause.[/quote]

I realize you don’t understand infinity. What I don’t get is why you think this means infinity must be supernatural, any more than time dilation is supernatural?[/quote]

I understand time dilation. It has been measured. It can be calculated.

555

[quote]ephrem wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Rational Gaze wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:
Do you accept the Cosmic Background Radiation as proof of the Big Bang?
[/quote]

You don’t even need that. Using highschool calculus, and assuming expansion, the strong energy condition, and isotropy you can show there was necessarily a big bang. You can relax isotropy and do it more generally, which is the content of the Hawking-Penrose theorem.[/quote]

Black holes still aren’t entirely proven, much less a black hole that contained all the matter in the universe. And calculating the regression of matter to a black hole is not simple math.[/quote]

The singularity from which the universe was formed wouldn’t have been a black hole.

[/quote]

Yo are going to have to make that bigger.

556

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Rational Gaze wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:
Do you accept the Cosmic Background Radiation as proof of the Big Bang?
[/quote]

You don’t even need that. Using highschool calculus, and assuming expansion, the strong energy condition, and isotropy you can show there was necessarily a big bang. You can relax isotropy and do it more generally, which is the content of the Hawking-Penrose theorem.[/quote]

Black holes still aren’t entirely proven, much less a black hole that contained all the matter in the universe. And calculating the regression of matter to a black hole is not simple math.[/quote]

The singularity from which the universe was formed wouldn’t have been a black hole.

[/quote]

Yo are going to have to make that bigger.[/quote]

Clicking on the pic should enlarge it?

557

[quote]ephrem wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Rational Gaze wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:
Do you accept the Cosmic Background Radiation as proof of the Big Bang?
[/quote]

You don’t even need that. Using highschool calculus, and assuming expansion, the strong energy condition, and isotropy you can show there was necessarily a big bang. You can relax isotropy and do it more generally, which is the content of the Hawking-Penrose theorem.[/quote]

Black holes still aren’t entirely proven, much less a black hole that contained all the matter in the universe. And calculating the regression of matter to a black hole is not simple math.[/quote]

The singularity from which the universe was formed wouldn’t have been a black hole.

[/quote]

Yo are going to have to make that bigger.[/quote]

Clicking on the pic should enlarge it?
[/quote]

already tried that. Still tiny.

558

If you’re cool with time dilation, why are you leery of the idea that time is malleable? Once you accept that concept, time is no longer a linear, progressive quantity and eternity isn’t so far fetched.

559

[quote]forlife wrote:
If you’re cool with time dilation, why are you leery of the idea that time is malleable? Once you accept that concept, time is no longer a linear, progressive quantity and eternity isn’t so far fetched. [/quote]

None of that leads to a rational concept of infinity.

560

Using the genetic equivalent of the Hubble telescope, researchers have peered into the distant past and witnessed an explosion of new genes that happened more than 3 billion years ago.

561

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

already tried that. Still tiny.[/quote]