Ofcourse matter can exist of it’s own accord. It exists, doesn’t it? That’s your proof.
Now give me proof of your uncaused cause.
[/quote]
It existing and having no ability to bring about it’s own existence is my proof.[/quote]
Not having proof is proof of not having proof. It doesn’t prove that of which you have no proof.
[/quote]
Not having proof and having evidence and theory that it can’t are 2 different things. I don’t know where you got the notion that idea was from lack of proof, any more than all of science.[/quote]
A theory that can’t be tested and posits something that, by definition, is unfalsifiable, is not a theory.
Ofcourse matter can exist of it’s own accord. It exists, doesn’t it? That’s your proof.
Now give me proof of your uncaused cause.
[/quote]
It existing and having no ability to bring about it’s own existence is my proof.[/quote]
Not having proof is proof of not having proof. It doesn’t prove that of which you have no proof.
[/quote]
Not having proof and having evidence and theory that it can’t are 2 different things. I don’t know where you got the notion that idea was from lack of proof, any more than all of science.[/quote]
A theory that can’t be tested and posits something that, by definition, is unfalsifiable, is not a theory.[/quote]
I was talking about matter/energy not being creatable in this universe. Not the theory of god.
Ofcourse matter can exist of it’s own accord. It exists, doesn’t it? That’s your proof.
Now give me proof of your uncaused cause.
[/quote]
It existing and having no ability to bring about it’s own existence is my proof.[/quote]
Not having proof is proof of not having proof. It doesn’t prove that of which you have no proof.
[/quote]
Not having proof and having evidence and theory that it can’t are 2 different things. I don’t know where you got the notion that idea was from lack of proof, any more than all of science.[/quote]
A theory that can’t be tested and posits something that, by definition, is unfalsifiable, is not a theory.[/quote]
I was talking about matter/energy not being creatable in this universe. Not the theory of god.[/quote]
Ofcourse matter can exist of it’s own accord. It exists, doesn’t it? That’s your proof.
Now give me proof of your uncaused cause.
[/quote]
It existing and having no ability to bring about it’s own existence is my proof.[/quote]
Not having proof is proof of not having proof. It doesn’t prove that of which you have no proof.
[/quote]
Not having proof and having evidence and theory that it can’t are 2 different things. I don’t know where you got the notion that idea was from lack of proof, any more than all of science.[/quote]
A theory that can’t be tested and posits something that, by definition, is unfalsifiable, is not a theory.[/quote]
I was talking about matter/energy not being creatable in this universe. Not the theory of god.[/quote]
You lost me here.
What’cha talking 'bout Brewster?
[/quote]
Me from above:
“It [matter] existing and having no ability to bring about it’s own existence is my proof.”
It logically flows that if nothing then always nothing. If nothing => matter? doesn’t make since. Matter cannot exist because of matter itself.
Me from above:
“It [matter] existing and having no ability to bring about it’s own existence is my proof.”
It logically flows that if nothing then always nothing. If nothing => matter? doesn’t make since. Matter cannot exist because of matter itself.[/quote]
But there was never nothing. There has always been something. That’s the whole point.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
<<< He’s gonna drop ya on yer head one day. I pray it’s BEFORE you die so you’ll fall from His shoulders into His arms as He makes you alive.
[/quote]
What if he makes me Catholic?
[/quote]LOL!! Outstanding!! Yer a real sport these last couple days ya know that. If He does, He will have most certainly not answered my prayers which I hasten to fully recognize as His right.
No, i means: how real is your religious experience to you. On a scale of 0 to 10?
[/quote]
define religious experience. Not trying to be an ass. I’m honestly trying to figure out what you are asking.[/quote]
I have no religious experience because i’ve no beliefs to support the experience.
Tiribulus has an intens religious experience because his beliefs do support that experience.
You say you have religious beliefs. How do those beliefs affect you in your everyday life?
[/quote]
It’s essentially the basis for all of my beliefs, to put it lightly. Without the belief is something higher, I cannot say who I would be though. I have tried and failed to justify much of my behavior and belief without the intrusion of the supernatural only to fail.
I would at minimum have no justification for who I am without it.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
<<< He’s gonna drop ya on yer head one day. I pray it’s BEFORE you die so you’ll fall from His shoulders into His arms as He makes you alive.
[/quote]
What if he makes me Catholic?
[/quote]LOL!! Outstanding!! Yer a real sport these last couple days ya know that. If He does, He will have most certainly not answered my prayers which I hasten to fully recognize as His right.
[/quote]
What if he made me atheist? He probably had his reasons for doing so, don’t you think?
Me from above:
“It [matter] existing and having no ability to bring about it’s own existence is my proof.”
It logically flows that if nothing then always nothing. If nothing => matter? doesn’t make since. Matter cannot exist because of matter itself.[/quote]
But there was never nothing. There has always been something. That’s the whole point.
[/quote]
An infinite regress means that the matter now exists because the matter before it did. and that matter was there because of the matter before it, to infinity.
That is an attempt at justifying matter because of matter. Turtles all the way down. “Always been” is just a better sounding way of saying it.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
<<< He’s gonna drop ya on yer head one day. I pray it’s BEFORE you die so you’ll fall from His shoulders into His arms as He makes you alive.
[/quote]
What if he makes me Catholic?
[/quote]LOL!! Outstanding!! Yer a real sport these last couple days ya know that. If He does, He will have most certainly not answered my prayers which I hasten to fully recognize as His right.
[/quote]
Out of curiosity, not criticism, what sect of Christianity do you pray for him to become?
No, i means: how real is your religious experience to you. On a scale of 0 to 10?
[/quote]
define religious experience. Not trying to be an ass. I’m honestly trying to figure out what you are asking.[/quote]
I have no religious experience because i’ve no beliefs to support the experience.
Tiribulus has an intens religious experience because his beliefs do support that experience.
You say you have religious beliefs. How do those beliefs affect you in your everyday life?
[/quote]
It’s essentially the basis for all of my beliefs, to put it lightly. Without the belief is something higher, I cannot say who I would be though. I have tried and failed to justify much of my behavior and belief without the intrusion of the supernatural only to fail.
I would at minimum have no justification for who I am without it.[/quote]
There’s a disconnect happening in my brain at the moment, lol. You are who you are, as you are. Why do religious beliefs come into play?
No, i means: how real is your religious experience to you. On a scale of 0 to 10?
[/quote]
define religious experience. Not trying to be an ass. I’m honestly trying to figure out what you are asking.[/quote]
I have no religious experience because i’ve no beliefs to support the experience.
Tiribulus has an intens religious experience because his beliefs do support that experience.
You say you have religious beliefs. How do those beliefs affect you in your everyday life?
[/quote]
It’s essentially the basis for all of my beliefs, to put it lightly. Without the belief is something higher, I cannot say who I would be though. I have tried and failed to justify much of my behavior and belief without the intrusion of the supernatural only to fail.
I would at minimum have no justification for who I am without it.[/quote]
There’s a disconnect happening in my brain at the moment, lol. You are who you are, as you are. Why do religious beliefs come into play?
[/quote]
God => morals => human rights => most everything else.
Me from above:
“It [matter] existing and having no ability to bring about it’s own existence is my proof.”
It logically flows that if nothing then always nothing. If nothing => matter? doesn’t make since. Matter cannot exist because of matter itself.[/quote]
But there was never nothing. There has always been something. That’s the whole point.
[/quote]
An infinite regress means that the matter now exists because the matter before it did. and that matter was there because of the matter before it, to infinity.
That is an attempt at justifying matter because of matter. Turtles all the way down. “Always been” is just a better sounding way of saying it.[/quote]
There was no matter before matter. There’s just energy at various wavelengths, and altough the wavelength changes due to supernovae or decomposition; energy is still energy.
I’d have to go as far as saying that there’s a finite amount of energy in the universe. This energy was not created, but has always been. The expressions of how this energy manifests itself however is infinite, and we’re lucky enough to experience one of those countless expressions.
No, i means: how real is your religious experience to you. On a scale of 0 to 10?
[/quote]
define religious experience. Not trying to be an ass. I’m honestly trying to figure out what you are asking.[/quote]
I have no religious experience because i’ve no beliefs to support the experience.
Tiribulus has an intens religious experience because his beliefs do support that experience.
You say you have religious beliefs. How do those beliefs affect you in your everyday life?
[/quote]
It’s essentially the basis for all of my beliefs, to put it lightly. Without the belief is something higher, I cannot say who I would be though. I have tried and failed to justify much of my behavior and belief without the intrusion of the supernatural only to fail.
I would at minimum have no justification for who I am without it.[/quote]
There’s a disconnect happening in my brain at the moment, lol. You are who you are, as you are. Why do religious beliefs come into play?
[/quote]
God => morals => human rights => most everything else.[/quote]
Me from above:
“It [matter] existing and having no ability to bring about it’s own existence is my proof.”
It logically flows that if nothing then always nothing. If nothing => matter? doesn’t make since. Matter cannot exist because of matter itself.[/quote]
But there was never nothing. There has always been something. That’s the whole point.
[/quote]
An infinite regress means that the matter now exists because the matter before it did. and that matter was there because of the matter before it, to infinity.
That is an attempt at justifying matter because of matter. Turtles all the way down. “Always been” is just a better sounding way of saying it.[/quote]
There was no matter before matter. There’s just energy at various wavelengths, and altough the wavelength changes due to supernovae or decomposition; energy is still energy.
I’d have to go as far as saying that there’s a finite amount of energy in the universe. This energy was not created, but has always been. The expressions of how this energy manifests itself however is infinite, and we’re lucky enough to experience one of those countless expressions.
[/quote]
To explain matter (the universe) you have to explain the systems and rules that govern it. And you can’t even do an infinite loop with the laws of the universe. What caused the laws of the universe?
But “always” (read infinity) is just a concept. You need to remove it from your hypothesis to make it a theory. Try your explanation without invoking an unfathomable inconceivable concept.
There was no matter before matter. There’s just energy at various wavelengths, and altough the wavelength changes due to supernovae or decomposition; energy is still energy.
I’d have to go as far as saying that there’s a finite amount of energy in the universe. This energy was not created, but has always been. The expressions of how this energy manifests itself however is infinite, and we’re lucky enough to experience one of those countless expressions.
[/quote]
To explain matter (the universe) you have to explain the systems and rules that govern it. And you can’t even do an infinite loop with the laws of the universe. What caused the laws of the universe?
But “always” (read infinity) is just a concept. You need to remove it from your hypothesis to make it a theory. Try your explanation without invoking an unfathomable inconceivable concept.[/quote]
Check chaos theory how ordered systems emerge from chaos.
I don’t know where the forces that rule the universe come from. Nobody knows.
You do realise that “god” is an unfathomable inconceivable concept, don’t you?
[quote]ephrem wrote:
<<< What if he made me atheist? He probably had his reasons for doing so, don’t you think?
[/quote]God doesn’t “make” anybody an “atheist”. Atheists don’t exist remember? He would have His reasons for leaving you dead in trespasses and sins though. To the resounding praise of his majestic holiness and flawless justice. I am not at liberty to view you as anything less than a creature made in the dignity of His image, marred though it is by sin. Just like me and no more deserving of His terrible judgments than I am. Hence I pray for and love you as a fellow man for whom I only wish the same unsearchable grace, mercy, peace and eternal assurance that have been so undeservedly showered upon me. I count it joy and a privilege to do so.
I know I may come off the wrong way to you guys sometimes. I don’t mean it like that. I just want you in my family.