Complete AI Detoxification Timeframe?

Pharma TRT
1

Well here I am again after 3 years, still on the AI merry-go-round and can’t seem to get off this horrible ride. I can type a whole book about my experiences but its the same stuff you will find sporadically on the net of all the guys going through the AI-hell of ups and downs like a yo-yo with no end in sight. I honestly think that some people just stop fighting it and give up and continue the yo-yo and then we dont hear from them anymore, thats why its not talked about daily.

So for me particularly, it seems long term usage of a tiny dose of AI isn’t a possibility and neither is coming off all the way. What happens is that I come off an AI all the way, wait as long as possible (up to 3 months) and then eventually give up due to high e2 sides and get back on a small dose. Then after 6 or so months end up coming back off for the same reasons I did before, rinse and repeat, forever.

When I take AI long term, eventually my whole body starts to hurt, my joints hurt and I get injuries such as my rotator cuffs that prevent me from working out. So then I get off and go through the detox hell.

I usually give up after 2 or so months because I cant get any sleep and my quality of life goes down the tube. Without an AI I can only ever get 6 hours of sleep, I am very bloated, oily, extremely irritable, lethargic during the day, and I have a constant mild headache all the time. Eventually I just can’t live with it anymore and go back to the AI. The AI seems to get my head hormones in check so I feel good mentally, but the rest of my body starts to suffer.

My only question and the reason for me posting here today, is that if I wait long enough without the AI, such as a whole year, is there any chance my body will finally figure it out and I will stop having high e2 symptoms my whole life? Or would this show itself by 3 months like I have waited several times? If you look at the half life of Arimidex it would make no sense to have to wait anything beyond 6 to 10 days for it to clear your system, but for some reason you have to wait a lot longer for the rebound. It must really do a number on our endocrine systems and our bodies have to reprogram from scratch.

Anyhow here are my stats:

6’1
215
~15% BF
.2mg CYP x2 per week - 100mg
AI (when on) .05-.10mg x2 per week
BP is really good, I have a cuff at home and test weekly

All my labs are in order. With that above dosage of test I usually score around 800 for testosterone on labs and everything else is perfect. I normally can keep a 1300 test while maintaining all my other lab values, but the problem is, the higher I go on test, the worse my e2 sides are.

Any advice would be appreciated thank you.

2

I found aromasin to be more tolerable versus arimidex, mg per mg aromasin is weaker than arimidex.

Have you tried injecting smaller doses more frequently?

3

I have tried Aromasin in the past but it was over 10 years ago and I dont recall exactly what happened. Not opposed to it, but ultimately I am trying to find out if there is a way I can go totally without an AI. Im trying to find experiences of people that have totally come off and have been able to stay off. I am very curious as to whether some peoples genetics allow them to go without an AI and some are just bound to it forever.

It would be amazing if we find out that maybe all of us can go without an AI but have different time frames of how long we have to wait. Maybe some people have to wait 2 months and their body finally corrects their hormonal balance, maybe some have to wait 2 years.

As far as pinning, I’ve always done 2 times a week with long ester. I guess I would be willing to do more frequent, but every 3.5 days should work really well with a long ester. Whenever I’ve done labs consecutively, my values weren’t all over the place, they were steady throughout multiple tests in one week.

4

You could try the AI infrequently, you don’t have to take it on a consistent basis. So try taking every other time or skipping the next two scheduled doses.

You could try smaller doses, I had on hand a 0.050, .125 and a .250 anastrozole from a compounding (Empower) pharmacy. The pill form of AI’s doesn’t allow for accurately dosing below .5

5

Yea I have liquid form and dose at .05mg, which I dont think I could even go lower than that. I am really weary of dosing anything on a schedule that isn’t consistent because then the yo-yo really starts to swing.

6

I stopped anastrozole after three to four years and E2 levels of 20-25. I had no problem at all and E2 levels went to 55-60. I have never looked back.

By far, most people on TRT are not using aromatase inhibitors. I can’t recall ever seeing someone coming over from a PCP, endocrinologist or urologist being on an AI. Many coming from a TRT clinic are.

Regardless, you and your doctor need to determine what works for you. Even after being on TRT for several years, it may take some time and trial and error. Good luck.

7

You never actually mention what you’re taking. There’s several different options, including SERMs that might stop some of the side effects without pushing your e2 lower. Any labs at all to track when you’re feeling the highs and lows?

8

I use Arimidex and have lots of labs to support how I feel but they almost never make sense. They could say the same thing two different times but I feel way different. It all depends how long I’ve been on or off the AI not what the labs say.

Also I have Nolvadex on hand I can use if needed.

9

Do you recall how long it took after you came off the AI before you started to feel better? And I mean like fully leveled out with no sides to speak of? When I come off AI my e2 rises about 10 points per weak stopping around 50 or so but could be higher if I’m taking more test. Even when my e2 is only just starting to rise 40 may feel like 200 and then it gets to 50 and I feel even worse, but after a few weeks at 50 I then feel much better.

I don’t understand how my labs can say 50 and I feel horrible and then four weeks later they still show 50 but I feel significantly better. There is some strange stuff happening to our bodies when we take AI and it scares the hell out of me.

10

I didn’t feel bad. I was heavily influenced by others, Neal Rouzier in particular, and decided to stop. At some point, and I do not recall when, I realized that my joints felt much better. I never experienced any negative side effects from stopping anastrozole. Around six months later, when getting follow-up labs, my E2 level had almost tripled while my lipids improved 20%.

Perhaps, like many others, you are overly sensitive to hormonal fluctuations or change? Once your body adapts to the new levels you are fine. Many report this. I think the message here is do not focus heavily on lab numbers and frequent testing.

11

If they don’t make any sense, then they can’t support your symptoms. Maybe post some so we can see? Easier to help that way

12

I think I’m going to just grit my teeth and see what happens at the 6 month mark. Never made it that far before.

13

Do you mind elaborating on the symptoms you have when you have both high and low e2? I’m trying to figure out if some of my symptoms are from e2, either high or low.

I just started trt 3 weeks ago and I’m super tired. After lunch I have been crashing bad. I deal with anxiety as well. I just have 1 ultrasensitive estradiol test pre trt and it was 19.

14

Also you cannot tell anything after 3 weeks. You need 3 months at least to start trying to dial anything in. Give your body a chance to react and then go from there.

15

What I can tell you is that some of the symptoms are exactly the same and sometimes I have no idea at all if I’m high or low. Also I have friends on trt and their symptoms are not the same as mine. Even worse is that my lab work doesn’t always match up to my symptoms. I’ll start chasing high symptoms and continue taking AI until I feel like dying and then go in for labs only to find out I have 1 e2.

Sorry can’t be much help, everyone’s body is different, if I told you my symptoms it would only confuse you further, you have to learn your own body. . If you are taking HCG and an AI along with your test, good luck because that puts me on a rollercoaster from hell.

16

I was over the E2 guidelines for low & high. I went on .25 anastrozole every Friday morning (.25 per week) my recent blood test 3/14/21. 3 months later has me at 32.1. I’m thinking you were taking too much AI. My T was 10001. My free T was 27.6 I take 60mg every 3.5 days, intramuscular on my thighs.
My endocrinologist told me always start at the smallest amount and work higher.

AI
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17

I was taking .10mg a week (0.05 twice) so a lot lower than what you take. Have you ever tried to go off the AI totally for any long periods of time? I’m trying to find guys that went off it and after a long enough time their body no longer needed it.

18

Hi there, I am cutting my 1mg. into 4 parts .25mg ea. I take one piece each Friday morning until the pill is gone, then I cut another pill 4 ways for the next 4 weeks. Hoe do you get that tiny pill cut to down to .10mg? Are you getting them form a compound pharmacy? Since taking .25mg anastrozole it has brought my lab results down to 32.1 from the upper 40’s. When I went out of “range” I became impotent. A few days after taking my first .25mg I was hard and happy. Even my lab results came back very decent. Along with the anastrozole I take 60mg every 3.5 days of Testosterone Cypionate. I also take on Mondays and Thursdays 0.25 mg of cabergoline to destroy two pituitary tumors on the front and back. My results are very good and I’m on the mend. Those tumors stopped all hormones (except prolactin which they feed on.) They even shut down my adrenal system which has recently started up, my bodies self repair is very slow but happening. This is my reason for getting on TRT. Totally exhausted, and NO libido. I have always taken lots of vitamins and still do. TRT has become my Hero.

19

I’m happy to hear this is working out for you, that’s amazing news. Anything that can kick cancers ass is a major success story. As far as my Arimidex, mine is in liquid form So I can vary the dosage much more than with pill.

You say you were impotent without the AI but how long did you go before hopping on the AI? It may have worked itself out if you have it some time. You don’t have to have a score of 32 or 29 to few good and have your body work properly. That’s one thing you will read a lot on the internet but it’s not true. A guy can have 100 e2 and be perfect with no sides and the rest of his labs line up.

Do you your joints hurt you?

20

Hi there, My tumors thankfully are not cancerous. If unchecked you become very drained, you age much faster and since the pituitary grows it will press the optic nerves, causing first tunnel vision then blindness. I was lucky to find this by getting a LowT blood test. I’ve been to more Dr.'s than on both hands, all of them said…your doing great. I took my blood test to my Endocrinologist and she became a bit uneasy. I had complained to her too. She took blood and ordered the MRI. High prolactin was the key, I had googled it and found a probability of macroadenomas. I started my TRT in 7/17/20, my brother a two months before. I saw how good he felt and followed his lead. Before my TRT all my joints ached very bad. Lots of lower back and shoulder pain. At first I had lots of water retention in my fight ankle. I wore compression socks and it helped very well. I called my GP’s office and the nurse sent a script for generic lasix. I peed a lot and it got rid of the excessive water. My face got fuller too. I needed that since my body was going through a very bad time caused by the tumors. At 4 months I noticed all my joint pain disappeared. This was a great benefit that I needed badly.
Our pituitary pumps out many hormones, my lack caused me to get very bad blood clots in my legs.(DVT). I was put on Xarelto. On my year, I went in for doppler and everything was gone. My Cardiologist told me to stay on the 20mg since I acquired AFIB three years ago and the TRT can cause clots. I take it every day knowing clots cannot form on this dose. With out the Zarelto my TRT could be risky. I started the AI about 3 months ago. My brother had the same trouble with getting erections on the higher E2. The .25mg fixed that pretty quickly. Before the AI one evening I couldn’t perform, I was like a rubber band and no sensation I got freaked out and the next morning I was at the LowT Dr.'s office for the AI. I decided not to take a full pill on my own. you-tube has lots of great experiences. Especially the guys in Europe. That’s why I went with the .25, 1X per week and it did the job perfectly. Honestly my best libido was in the 850 range. I’m at T 1001 because I want to get back some muscle quicker. I don’t feel my libido is as strong as it was. Or, maybe its the tax bill I have to soon put in the mail. I agree with you that you don’t need a score of 32 or 39. We all should realize that we all have a different physiology, however many of those guide lines on our lab tests do help the majority of people. Others that guide line is not optimal. You are spot on when you wrote A guy can have 100 e2 and be perfect, unfortunately for me that # would be disastrous. Why don’t you consider, taking your AI once in that micro dose of .10mg every 7 days. (You can even take it once every 10 days.) My brother started to have some aches in his joints his Dr. cut back his T, now he takes 0.1 mg. every 4 days. (that’s the first bar on the syringe, not much T) It seems like nothing but his T is currently at 840. And no shoulder or hand joint pain. I’m so amazed how buff he has become.