Competeing Currencies

[center]Let’s Legalize Competing Currencies

by Ron Paul[/center]

Before the US House of Representatives, February 13, 2008

I rise to speak on the concept of competing currencies. Currency, or money, is what allows civilization to flourish. In the absence of money, barter is the name of the game; if the farmer needs shoes, he must trade his eggs and milk to the cobbler and hope that the cobbler needs eggs and milk. Money makes the transaction process far easier. Rather than having to search for someone with reciprocal wants, the farmer can exchange his milk and eggs for an agreed-upon medium of exchange with which he can then purchase shoes.

This medium of exchange should satisfy certain properties: it should be durable, that is to say, it does not wear out easily; it should be portable, that is, easily carried; it should be divisible into units usable for everyday transactions; it should be recognizable and uniform, so that one unit of money has the same properties as every other unit; it should be scarce, in the economic sense, so that the extant supply does not satisfy the wants of everyone demanding it; it should be stable, so that the value of its purchasing power does not fluctuate wildly; and it should be reproducible, so that enough units of money can be created to satisfy the needs of exchange.

Over millennia of human history, gold and silver have been the two metals that have most often satisfied these conditions, survived the market process, and gained the trust of billions of people. Gold and silver are difficult to counterfeit, a property which ensures they will always be accepted in commerce. It is precisely for this reason that gold and silver are anathema to governments. A supply of gold and silver that is limited in supply by nature cannot be inflated, and thus serves as a check on the growth of government. Without the ability to inflate the currency, governments find themselves constrained in their actions, unable to carry on wars of aggression or to appease their overtaxed citizens with bread and circuses.

At this country’s founding, there was no government-controlled national currency. While the Constitution established the Congressional power of minting coins, it was not until 1792 that the US Mint was formally established. In the meantime, Americans made do with foreign silver and gold coins. Even after the Mint’s operations got underway, foreign coins continued to circulate within the United States, and did so for several decades.

On the desk in my office I have a sign that says: “Don’t steal – the government hates competition.” Indeed, any power a government arrogates to itself, it is loathe to give back to the people. Just as we have gone from a constitutionally instituted national defense consisting of a limited army and navy bolstered by militias and letters of marque and reprisal, we have moved from a system of competing currencies to a government-instituted banking cartel that monopolizes the issuance of currency. In order to introduce a system of competing currencies, there are three steps that must be taken to produce a legal climate favorable to competition.

The first step consists of eliminating legal tender laws. Article I Section 10 of the Constitution forbids the States from making anything but gold and silver a legal tender in payment of debts. States are not required to enact legal tender laws, but should they choose to, the only acceptable legal tender is gold and silver, the two precious metals that individuals throughout history and across cultures have used as currency. However, there is nothing in the Constitution that grants the Congress the power to enact legal tender laws. We, the Congress, have the power to coin money, regulate the value thereof, and of foreign coin, but not to declare a legal tender. Yet, there is a section of US Code, 31 USC 5103, that purports to establish US coins and currency, including Federal Reserve notes, as legal tender.

Historically, legal tender laws have been used by governments to force their citizens to accept debased and devalued currency. Gresham’s Law describes this phenomenon, which can be summed up in one phrase: bad money drives out good money. An emperor, a king, or a dictator might mint coins with half an ounce of gold and force merchants, under pain of death, to accept them as though they contained one ounce of gold. Each ounce of the king’s gold could now be minted into two coins instead of one, so the king now had twice as much “money” to spend on building castles and raising armies. As these legally overvalued coins circulated, the coins containing the full ounce of gold would be pulled out of circulation and hoarded. We saw this same phenomenon happen in the mid-1960s when the US government began to mint subsidiary coinage out of copper and nickel rather than silver. The copper and nickel coins were legally overvalued, the silver coins undervalued in relation, and silver coins vanished from circulation.

These actions also give rise to the most pernicious effects of inflation. Most of the merchants and peasants who received this devalued currency felt the full effects of inflation, the rise in prices and the lowered standard of living, before they received any of the new currency. By the time they received the new currency, prices had long since doubled, and the new currency they received would give them no benefit.

In the absence of legal tender laws, Gresham’s Law no longer holds. If people are free to reject debased currency, and instead demand sound money, sound money will gradually return to use in society. Merchants would have been free to reject the king’s coin and accept only coins containing full metal weight.

The second step to reestablishing competing currencies is to eliminate laws that prohibit the operation of private mints. One private enterprise which attempted to popularize the use of precious metal coins was Liberty Services, the creators of the Liberty Dollar. Evidently the government felt threatened, as Liberty Dollars had all their precious metal coins seized by the FBI and Secret Service this past November. Of course, not all of these coins were owned by Liberty Services, as many were held in trust as backing for silver and gold certificates which Liberty Services issued. None of this matters, of course, to the government, who hates to see any competition.

The sections of US Code which Liberty Services is accused of violating are erroneously considered to be anti-counterfeiting statutes, when in fact their purpose was to shut down private mints that had been operating in California. California was awash in gold in the aftermath of the 1849 gold rush, yet had no US Mint to mint coinage. There was not enough foreign coinage circulating in California either, so private mints stepped into the breech to provide their own coins. As was to become the case in other industries during the Progressive era, the private mints were eventually accused of circulating debased (substandard) coinage, and in the interest of providing government-sanctioned regulation and a government guarantee of purity, the 1864 Coinage Act was passed, which banned private mints from producing their own coins for circulation as currency.

The final step to ensuring competing currencies is to eliminate capital gains and sales taxes on gold and silver coins. Under current federal law, coins are considered collectibles, and are liable for capital gains taxes. Short-term capital gains rates are at income tax levels, up to 35 percent, while long-term capital gains taxes are assessed at the collectibles rate of 28 percent. Furthermore, these taxes actually tax monetary debasement. As the dollar weakens, the nominal dollar value of gold increases. The purchasing power of gold may remain relatively constant, but as the nominal dollar value increases, the federal government considers this an increase in wealth, and taxes accordingly. Thus, the more the dollar is debased, the more capital gains taxes must be paid on holdings of gold and other precious metals.

Just as pernicious are the sales and use taxes which are assessed on gold and silver at the state level in many states. Imagine having to pay sales tax at the bank every time you change a $10 bill for a roll of quarters to do laundry. Inflation is a pernicious tax on the value of money, but even the official numbers, which are massaged downwards, are only on the order of 4% per year. Sales taxes in many states can take away 8% or more on every single transaction in which consumers wish to convert their Federal Reserve Notes into gold or silver.

In conclusion, Madam Speaker, allowing for competing currencies will allow market participants to choose a currency that suits their needs, rather than the needs of the government. The prospect of American citizens turning away from the dollar towards alternate currencies will provide the necessary impetus to the US government to regain control of the dollar and halt its downward spiral. Restoring soundness to the dollar will remove the government’s ability and incentive to inflate the currency, and keep us from launching unconstitutional wars that burden our economy to excess. With a sound currency, everyone is better off, not just those who control the monetary system. I urge my colleagues to consider the redevelopment of a system of competing currencies.

The exigencies of the law mean that the government is always going to specify tax rates in one currency - and it’s going to be in dollars - which means that anyone who wants to use an alternative currency is going to accept currency risk. Additionally, the government is not going to retract the law that requires people in the U.S. to accept dollars as legal tender - while no one will have to accept any of the “alternative” currencies.

With a large number of alternatives, what are people going to do about counterfeiting? Bite the Liberty Dollars to check their metal content? Check the certificates? Who’s going to want to bear the risk on that sort of thing?

Not only that, but free trade is highly dependent on having currencies of known and accepted value to use for trade.

The government can leave the Liberty Dollar folks alone - it won’t matter.

[quote]BostonBarrister wrote:
The exigencies of the law mean that the government is always going to specify tax rates in one currency - and it’s going to be in dollars - which means that anyone who wants to use an alternative currency is going to accept currency risk. Additionally, the government is not going to retract the law that requires people in the U.S. to accept dollars as legal tender - while no one will have to accept any of the “alternative” currencies.

With a large number of alternatives, what are people going to do about counterfeiting? Bite the Liberty Dollars to check their metal content? Check the certificates? Who’s going to want to bear the risk on that sort of thing?

Not only that, but free trade is highly dependent on having currencies of known and accepted value to use for trade.

The government can leave the Liberty Dollar folks alone - it won’t matter.[/quote]

Not true at all. You are free to barter with any exchange medium you like. Currency is merely that. If I wanted to exchange CD players for DVD players it doesn’t matter as long as someone has a want for them. Forcing a particular currency as an exchange medium is wrong.

Free trade is not dependent on currency. It is dependent on two parties voluntarily agreeing on what is to be exchanged – it could be the example I used above. In trade, no one cares about currency. All one cares about is that one will eventually be able to exchange for goods. You could get paid in gold, would that hurt you financially? Would it stop you from being able to exchange for goods and services?

Also, you should not think so linearly. Technology makes exchange easy these days. No one goes around biting currency even though we know it is being continually debased. I doubt people would be carrying gold in their pockets. In stead it would be entrusted to banks to hold and you would have an account just like you do now where you can exchange digitally. The difference is those digits would actually represent something other than paper.

Wasn’t Liberty Dollar also printing paper money that was not fully backed by gold?

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
Wasn’t Liberty Dollar also printing paper money that was not fully backed by gold?

[/quote]

No.

[quote]
BostonBarrister wrote:
The exigencies of the law mean that the government is always going to specify tax rates in one currency - and it’s going to be in dollars - which means that anyone who wants to use an alternative currency is going to accept currency risk. Additionally, the government is not going to retract the law that requires people in the U.S. to accept dollars as legal tender - while no one will have to accept any of the “alternative” currencies.

With a large number of alternatives, what are people going to do about counterfeiting? Bite the Liberty Dollars to check their metal content? Check the certificates? Who’s going to want to bear the risk on that sort of thing?

Not only that, but free trade is highly dependent on having currencies of known and accepted value to use for trade.

The government can leave the Liberty Dollar folks alone - it won’t matter.

LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Not true at all. You are free to barter with any exchange medium you like. Currency is merely that. If I wanted to exchange CD players for DVD players it doesn’t matter as long as someone has a want for them. Forcing a particular currency as an exchange medium is wrong.

Free trade is not dependent on currency. It is dependent on two parties voluntarily agreeing on what is to be exchanged – it could be the example I used above. In trade, no one cares about currency. All one cares about is that one will eventually be able to exchange for goods. You could get paid in gold, would that hurt you financially? Would it stop you from being able to exchange for goods and services?

Also, you should not think so linearly. Technology makes exchange easy these days. No one goes around biting currency even though we know it is being continually debased. I doubt people would be carrying gold in their pockets. In stead it would be entrusted to banks to hold and you would have an account just like you do now where you can exchange digitally. The difference is those digits would actually represent something other than paper.[/quote]

You mean you’re free to barter provided you pay the tax assessed on the value of the transaction - sales taxes, and income taxes if you make a gain.

In trade, outside of barter, people do in fact care about currency - they care about receiving something of recognized value, and useful to them. How long do you think it would take to convince Chinese manufacturers to accept payments denominated in Liberty Dollars or whatever competing currency you come up with? A lot of negotiation in international purchase agreements can occur over the currency that will be used to pay for the goods. This is particularly true for futures contracts. And if you’re not getting paid in something you can immediately spend there is an extra element of risk involved - whatever you’re paid in may be illiquid or lose value - that risk is mitigated if it’s easy to convert whatever you’re paid with into something you can immediately spend.

So, again, why would someone in China want to accept payments in Liberty Dollars - Or whatever other new currency pops up in teh U.S. - when they know they can be paid in dollars and convert those immediately into Yuan? Why would a local bank in China even convert Liberty Dollars? I suppose you could convert to horrible, paper, fiat Yuan ahead of time - probably at a higher cost than converting dollars, because the bank would then be taking a less liquid “currency” and taking on risk. Sounds great.

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:

Not true at all. You are free to barter with any exchange medium you like. Currency is merely that. If I wanted to exchange CD players for DVD players it doesn’t matter as long as someone has a want for them. Forcing a particular currency as an exchange medium is wrong.
[/quote]

Try paying the IRS with fucking DVD players, or CD players.

DO you do this as some sort of game? I can’t believe someone, anyone, would actually believe the bullshit you talk.

A free market currency is a dead idea (these days), Lift.

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
Wasn’t Liberty Dollar also printing paper money that was not fully backed by gold?

No.[/quote]

Wrong.

The feds say he did not have enough gold or silver to back his paper and I believe them. How in the world could he make money at such a venture if he had to save one dollars worth of gold or silver for every dollar he issued? Obviously he didn’t.

Nuthouse is a scammer and a crook.

You need to learn more or stop posting. This subject has been beaten to death and it is tiresome. You will not step outside your Lew Rockwell fantasy land and look at reality and frankly it is ruining a once good forum.

http://www.coinlink.com/News/top-stories/liberty-dollar-office-raided-gold-and-silver-coins-confiscated/

http://www.courierpress.com/news/2007/nov/15/liberty-dollar-office-raided/

[i]
Von NotHaus developed the Liberty Dollar in 1998 as an “inflation-proof” alternative currency to the U.S. Dollar, which he has claimed has devalued since the Federal Reserve was established in 1913. The silver medallions are produced by a private mint in Idaho on behalf of Evansville-based Liberty Services, which also issues paper notes which the group says are backed by silver reserves.

Liberty Dollar employees were at the office this morning cleaning up after the raid. They referred all questions to von NotHaus.

According to the e-mail, about a dozen agents arrived Wednesday morning and seized gold, silver, platinum, and nearly two tons of recently delivered Ron Paul Dollars. They also took all the files and all the computers and froze the group’s bank accounts, the e-mail said.

“We have no money. We have no products. We have no records to even know what was ordered or what you are owed,” von NotHaus wrote in the e-mail, which was sent to Liberty Dollar customers. “We have nothing but the will to push forward and overcome this massive assault on our liberty and our right to have real money as defined by the US Constitution. We should not to be defrauded by the fake government money.”

The e-mail said the gold and silver that backs up the paper and digital currency was confiscated, as were the dies used to mint the Liberty Dollars themselves. As a result, it warns that recent orders placed for Liberty Dollars may not be filled and it encourages supporters to band together for a class-action lawsuit.
[/i]

[quote]BostonBarrister wrote:
So, again, why would someone in China want to accept payments in Liberty Dollars - Or whatever other new currency pops up in teh U.S. - when they know they can be paid in dollars and convert those immediately into Yuan? Why would a local bank in China even convert Liberty Dollars? I suppose you could convert to horrible, paper, fiat Yuan ahead of time - probably at a higher cost than converting dollars, because the bank would then be taking a less liquid “currency” and taking on risk. Sounds great.
[/quote]
Why does anyone accept anything as an exchange medium? There must be an inherent want to it to accept it as an exchange medium. Right now, dollars are wanted but look at the value of the dollar right now compared to other currencies. This is because it is wanted less and less – because it just gets printed willy-nilly and it loses its value. This is easy to understand if we look at it in terms of debt. Why would the Chinese just keep taking on debt (trade deficits) from us if they know we are just going to keep printing money to pay them back?

If Liberty dollars were what the Chinese accepted as an exchange medium they would be guaranteed gold on demand. It is not the conversion that matters. The Chinese don’t actually hold dollars they hold debt and just value their money based on the debt they accept from us. They could just as easily convert from gold to Yuan depending on the exchange value with out a 3rd party dollar conversion – this would kill the dollar if they did it though.

Currency conversion was based on weights of gold before the conversion to pure fiat. Exchange rates never fluctuated. One dollar was worth 1/20 oz and one Pound Sterling was worth 1/4 oz gold, for example; and the dollar would always exchange 5 to 1 with the pound. Currency conversion is actually much easier to calculate on a commodity system.

Let’s pose this question: what would happen to us if the Chinese and the oil producing nations no longer accepted fiat but instead decided gold? Would it help or hurt us? Or would it have no effect at all?

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:

Let’s pose this question: what would happen to us if the Chinese and the oil producing nations no longer accepted fiat but instead decided gold? Would it help or hurt us? Or would it have no effect at all?[/quote]

It would be idiotic, that is why no one is proposing such a thing except the people trying to trade you their gold for your paper dollars.

Ever wonder why the gold bugs are so willing to trade their gold for your worthless paper dollars?

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
The feds say he did not have enough gold or silver to back his paper and I believe them. How in the world could he make money at such a venture if he had to save one dollars worth of gold or silver for every dollar he issued? Obviously he didn’t.
[/quote]
So you understand the concept of stealing when private citizens do it but not when the government does it. Convenient. There is nothing to back up what you claim – neither was there ever charges filed for such a claim. The feds confiscated all their property is all it says. Nothing about fraud or counterfitting.

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
Ever wonder why the gold bugs are so willing to trade their gold for your worthless paper dollars?[/quote]

It’s called liquidity. Sometimes its easier to just write a check instead of carrying a suitcase full of $100 bills. But in order to write a check they have to be accepted first.

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
It would be idiotic, that is why no one is proposing such a thing except the people trying to trade you their gold for your paper dollars.
[/quote]
Why do you care what other people want to exchange?

[quote]
BostonBarrister wrote:
So, again, why would someone in China want to accept payments in Liberty Dollars - Or whatever other new currency pops up in teh U.S. - when they know they can be paid in dollars and convert those immediately into Yuan? Why would a local bank in China even convert Liberty Dollars? I suppose you could convert to horrible, paper, fiat Yuan ahead of time - probably at a higher cost than converting dollars, because the bank would then be taking a less liquid “currency” and taking on risk. Sounds great.

LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Why does anyone accept anything as an exchange medium? There must be an inherent want to it to accept it as an exchange medium. Right now, dollars are wanted but look at the value of the dollar right now compared to other currencies. This is because it is wanted less and less – because it just gets printed willy-nilly and it loses its value. This is easy to understand if we look at it in terms of debt. Why would the Chinese just keep taking on debt (trade deficits) from us if they know we are just going to keep printing money to pay them back?

If Liberty dollars were what the Chinese accepted as an exchange medium they would be guaranteed gold on demand. It is not the conversion that matters. The Chinese don’t actually hold dollars they hold debt and just value their money based on the debt they accept from us. They could just as easily convert from gold to Yuan depending on the exchange value with out a 3rd party dollar conversion – this would kill the dollar if they did it though.

Currency conversion was based on weights of gold before the conversion to pure fiat. Exchange rates never fluctuated. One dollar was worth 1/20 oz and one Pound Sterling was worth 1/4 oz gold, for example; and the dollar would always exchange 5 to 1 with the pound. Currency conversion is actually much easier to calculate on a commodity system.

Let’s pose this question: what would happen to us if the Chinese and the oil producing nations no longer accepted fiat but instead decided gold? Would it help or hurt us? Or would it have no effect at all?[/quote]

At the end of the day, any paper currency is accepted based on trust - the mutual agreement among the parties that it has value. Why would a manufacturer in China trust that whatever small bank is hawking Liberty Dollars over the U.S. government? The U.S. government not only has its reserves, but also the future taxation revenue generated by the entire U.S. economy.

And given the amount of worldwide trade, would there even be enough gold to back demand if it did become the agreed-upon value store. This was one of the problems that led countries off of the gold standard in the first place - it was an artificial impediment to economic growth.

Let the Liberty Dollar people play - there’s the slight chance it might become slightly more widely adopted than a Sacagawea coin… Of course there will be some hard-core support from Ron Paul supporters and people who want it to work - but it still won’t.

[quote]BostonBarrister wrote:
At the end of the day, any paper currency is accepted based on trust - the mutual agreement among the parties that it has value. Why would a manufacturer in China trust that whatever small bank is hawking Liberty Dollars over the U.S. government? The U.S. government not only has its reserves, but also the future taxation revenue generated by the entire U.S. economy.[/quote]

Yes, exactly. It all is a matter of trust. That is where money gets its value. When the Chinese quit trusting that our debt will be repaid the dollar loses its value. Gold, for example, is good as long as we keep enough to back up the loans on deposit.

[quote]
And given the amount of worldwide trade, would there even be enough gold to back demand if it did become the agreed-upon value store. This was one of the problems that led countries off of the gold standard in the first place - it was an artificial impediment to economic growth.[/quote]

It does not matter how much gold is in existence – or any money for that matter. There is no optimal amount as all goods will be priced in what actually exists; first there has to be a signal for that to be understood. If we were to go directly back to a gold standard prices would probably start out high in terms of gold but would come down as the signals are received to indicate the actual amount of gold in the system. Conversely if there is more than expected prices go up.

For example, a pair of shoes is exchanged for 1/100 oz gold but it soon becomes understood that there is less gold in the system than was actually thought; gold becomes more valuable and the price of shoes might drop to 1/150 oz gold. There is no optimal amount of money that needs to exist. How many pig teeth should be exchanged for a pair of sneakers? This is ultimately decided in the market place.

[quote]
Let the Liberty Dollar people play - there’s the slight chance it might become slightly more widely adopted than a Sacagawea coin… Of course there will be some hard-core support from Ron Paul supporters and people who want it to work - but it still won’t.[/quote]

Yes, its a gamble as is all economic matters. Money only serves a purpose of exchange and is only valuable as long as it is accepted. Why is our money less accepted in foreign exchange markets now?

Maybe it doesn’t matter how much gold is in existence in the long run, but in the short and medium runs it does matter - that’s why commodity standards tend to be associated with deflationary cycles.

I’m going to quote Tyler Cowen here: “There is little doubt that over the broad sweep of world history, commodity standards have outperformed paper money. But we don’t live in the broad sweep of world history, we live in 2008 and our ability to monitor and control central banks is unparalleled. The central banks of the wealthier nations work pretty well. My main worry with the gold standard is simply the pro-cyclicality of the money supply and for all its talk of money demand the paper doesn’t much address this concern. For instance would you really want a contracting money supply in today’s environment? And yes credit crunches of this kind happen in market settings too so you can’t blame it all on Alan Greenspan.”

[quote]rainjack wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:

Not true at all. You are free to barter with any exchange medium you like. Currency is merely that. If I wanted to exchange CD players for DVD players it doesn’t matter as long as someone has a want for them. Forcing a particular currency as an exchange medium is wrong.

Try paying the IRS with fucking DVD players, or CD players.

DO you do this as some sort of game? I can’t believe someone, anyone, would actually believe the bullshit you talk.

[/quote]

Unfortunately you can no longer do this, but for almost two hundred years, from 1600 to 1800 you could pay your US taxes with Hemp. Fact it was has used as a form of currency during that time period. How things have changed in one hundred years.

[quote]streamline wrote:
rainjack wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:

Not true at all. You are free to barter with any exchange medium you like. Currency is merely that. If I wanted to exchange CD players for DVD players it doesn’t matter as long as someone has a want for them. Forcing a particular currency as an exchange medium is wrong.

Try paying the IRS with fucking DVD players, or CD players.

DO you do this as some sort of game? I can’t believe someone, anyone, would actually believe the bullshit you talk.

Unfortunately you can no longer do this, but for almost two hundred years, from 1600 to 1800 you could pay your US taxes with Hemp. Fact it was has used as a form of currency during that time period. How things have changed in one hundred years.[/quote]

Given that in a world of competing currencies the official dollar would probably sink like a stone compared to a commodity backed currency most people would INSIST on paying their taxes in “official” dollars.

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:

Let’s pose this question: what would happen to us if the Chinese and the oil producing nations no longer accepted fiat but instead decided gold? Would it help or hurt us? Or would it have no effect at all?

It would be idiotic, that is why no one is proposing such a thing except the people trying to trade you their gold for your paper dollars.
[/quote]

They will switch to the Euro though and they are already doing that.

Ultimately the only thing that counts for the US is that they switch away from the dollar and no longer finance US debt (at least not demoninated in US dollar).

So, the people that have an alternative are already switching to the more stable, and gold like if you will, currency.