College Produces Dilberts

Off Topic
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[quote]Aleksandr wrote:

No, but a PhD in business from a world-class university does. Finance PhDs (these are the stars of the field, not a new graduate) are now making over 700k/year in industry, and to compete universities are paying 500k+ to the top researchers. The same thing goes for accounting PhDs. I do OB/HRM, and the numbers are much, much lower, but since we can work in industry or in academics, we still make much more than most PhDs.[/quote]

The original topic was referring to an undergrad degree. Of course people who graduate with masters or PhD’s in business will be making much more, 6 figures sometimes. This in itself is bullshit since business school is 2 years so in the span of two years most of these people go from having an earning potential of 35K to 3 times that…all from learning how to work in a group. A kid in my engineering PhD program was also doing an MBA at the same time. His exact comment was that “the MBA classes were a joke” compared to the easiest engineering classes he was taking…and this was a top 10 business school(Fuqua).

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[quote]pja wrote:
Aleksandr wrote:

No, but a PhD in business from a world-class university does. Finance PhDs (these are the stars of the field, not a new graduate) are now making over 700k/year in industry, and to compete universities are paying 500k+ to the top researchers. The same thing goes for accounting PhDs. I do OB/HRM, and the numbers are much, much lower, but since we can work in industry or in academics, we still make much more than most PhDs.

The original topic was referring to an undergrad degree. Of course people who graduate with masters or PhD’s in business will be making much more, 6 figures sometimes. This in itself is bullshit since business school is 2 years so in the span of two years most of these people go from having an earning potential of 35K to 3 times that…all from learning how to work in a group. A kid in my engineering PhD program was also doing an MBA at the same time. His exact comment was that “the MBA classes were a joke” compared to the easiest engineering classes he was taking…and this was a top 10 business school(Fuqua).

[/quote]

Keep in mind 2 things: 1) what a person finds difficult or hard is entirely subjective; I know guys that find engineering a joke, and have a really hard time in business courses and 2) It should be expected that PhD level courses will be much more difficult than MBA courses.

You mention that it is a top-10 MBA program, according to whom and in what category?

Also, a PhD in business takes a lot longer than 2 years. The school I’m in tries to get us out in 3-4 years, but many schools in Canada take a lot longer.

Finally, while you may have interpreted the original topic to be referring to undergrad degrees, I interpreted to be people finishing school with no work experience. My contribution is the observation that sometimes, the education determines a very high level of pay, regardless of work experience.

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[quote]Aleksandr wrote:
pja wrote:
Aleksandr wrote:

No, but a PhD in business from a world-class university does. Finance PhDs (these are the stars of the field, not a new graduate) are now making over 700k/year in industry, and to compete universities are paying 500k+ to the top researchers. The same thing goes for accounting PhDs. I do OB/HRM, and the numbers are much, much lower, but since we can work in industry or in academics, we still make much more than most PhDs.

The original topic was referring to an undergrad degree. Of course people who graduate with masters or PhD’s in business will be making much more, 6 figures sometimes. This in itself is bullshit since business school is 2 years so in the span of two years most of these people go from having an earning potential of 35K to 3 times that…all from learning how to work in a group. A kid in my engineering PhD program was also doing an MBA at the same time. His exact comment was that “the MBA classes were a joke” compared to the easiest engineering classes he was taking…and this was a top 10 business school(Fuqua).

Keep in mind 2 things: 1) what a person finds difficult or hard is entirely subjective; I know guys that find engineering a joke, and have a really hard time in business courses and 2) It should be expected that PhD level courses will be much more difficult than MBA courses.

You mention that it is a top-10 MBA program, according to whom and in what category?

Also, a PhD in business takes a lot longer than 2 years. The school I’m in tries to get us out in 3-4 years, but many schools in Canada take a lot longer.

Finally, while you may have interpreted the original topic to be referring to undergrad degrees, I interpreted to be people finishing school with no work experience. My contribution is the observation that sometimes, the education determines a very high level of pay, regardless of work experience.[/quote]

With regards to inflated salaries I was talking about an MBA…if you are doing a business PhD(which truthfully I wasn’t aware that many people did outside of those who plan on teaching) which takes 4-5 years and the result after that time is that you’ve contributed an original thesis which benefits the business industry than by all means you deserve a 6 figure salary. What is your thesis work on?

With regards to the ranking of Fuqua business school it usually is ranked high by all those know-it-all magazines…not sure how much that means though.

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A question for those of you who own or hire for a business. You interview 2 potential job candidates. Both are almost exactly alike as far as knowledge and requirements but one spent his time in college and the other in the military. Who would you choose and why?

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My “poorest” friend started at $70k, and he was embarrased.

however, we were all engineering majors, and so whatever…

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[quote]E-man wrote:
A question for those of you who own or hire for a business. You interview 2 potential job candidates. Both are almost exactly alike as far as knowledge and requirements but one spent his time in college and the other in the military. Who would you choose and why?[/quote]

It would come down to motivation, self-efficacy, and outcome expectancies. Depending on the job type, university or military experience would likely result in a better candidate.

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Hello All,
I just entered college at the age of 27.
Here’s my analysis of my fellow students.
MOST OF THEM ARE WASTING THEIR TIME!

IMO, the only reason you should start college is if you have a worthwhile purpose. You want to do (fill in the blank), and that job is a widespread need. Who does college benefit?
From my limited viewpoint, college benefits:

Engineering students
Those who want to be MD’s, Veterinarians,nurses,etc.
Accounting students
Most science related students, even though they may need to go to Grad school, and choose their specialty wisely(the healthcare field is a good bet)

What do all these students/majors have in common:specificity and widespread need. These people learn specific things, and those things are needed by MANY employers.

Who’s fucked? Almost everyone else. There are going to be some English majors who get jobs, but not many.

One annoying thing that I’ve learned is that when you ask a teacher or advisor “what’s a good thing to major in?” , they say one of two things:

1.Major in what I teach
2.Study what you love

I’m not sure, but I think they give these B.S. answers for 2 reasons:
1.They actually think that they are helping you, and don’t realize that they are extremely lucky to actually be using their History degree.
2.They are afraid to tell you “Don’t major in this because it’s a dead-end” because it’s bad for their employer (the college), and bad for themselves.

So mostly, DON’T GO TO COLLEGE TO FIND OUT WHAT YOU WANT TO BE. HAVE AN IDEA WHAT YOU WANT TO BE, MAKE SURE THAT THERE ARE ALOT OF JOBS IN THAT FIELD,AND THEN GO TO COLLEGE.

Comguy

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[quote]comguy1 wrote:

So mostly, DON’T GO TO COLLEGE TO FIND OUT WHAT YOU WANT TO BE. HAVE AN IDEA WHAT YOU WANT TO BE, MAKE SURE THAT THERE ARE ALOT OF JOBS IN THAT FIELD,AND THEN GO TO COLLEGE.

Comguy[/quote]

That goes back to how people are raised. Without any sort of guidance early on, most people will be those who have no clue where they want to be in 5 years.

If a kid in junior year of high school is completely clueless about even the general area they want to head in, that isn’t a good thing. I think vocational schools or “magnet schools” that focus the attention on a certain field would help many find what they want to do.

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[quote]magnadur wrote:
My “poorest” friend started at $70k, and he was embarrased.

however, we were all engineering majors, and so whatever…[/quote]

Where? What type of engineering? That’s high for a BS in engineering around here. New York is different.

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I don’t see a problem with someone discovering what they want to do when they are already in school. I planned on doing psychology, but I didn’t know I wanted to do business until I took a few business courses. I think I’m turning out just fine. I’m still doing psych, but in a business setting.

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My friends and I once convinced a university business student that Canada is on “metric time” and that there is 100 seconds in a minute (she’s lived here her entire life).

On another occasion she hooked up with a guy at a party without using protection. Later her friends told her, “you realize you could be pregnant right now!”

Her reply, “Well I don’t feel pregnant.”

She graduated with a Bachelor of Commerce in Sales and Marketing.

That pretty much sums it up.

– ElbowStrike

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[quote]PGJ wrote:
vroom wrote:

Colleges are not always very concerned with real world work-force issues. That’s not their job. Their job is to teach people to think about certain types of issues.

Colleges exist to make money. That’s it. The military academies are the exception (I can’t think of another school where EVERY student addends for free).

Why are football (sometimes basketball) coaches the highest paid employees of almost all colleges? Football (or basketball) brings in more money for the school than any thing else, especially at the Div I schools. Good football program equals big bucks

It’s a business. On paper, universities claim to be all about education and all sorts of lofty ambitions of character, integrity, leadership, blah, blah, blah…it’s about money.
[/quote]

First, I have to say: right on. College is a business, nothing more. Some of them are better at hiding it–some, like my school, are awful at hiding it. It’s just obvious.

As far as the original topic:
I am a college student currently. I picked a “major I like” instead of worrying about going out to make money after I was done. So, I study music: guitar performance and music business.

The interesting thing about the average music major is that we all work really hard to nail down what we learn in classes. Why? because without tools (ala music theory or aural skills or music history) we don’t succeed as performers, let alone teachers of music. I’m obviously slightly biased, but a really seriously music major comes out of school with a lot of real world experience because we have to. We have to learn how to teach a kid music; we have to learn how to write a resonable, scholarly paper; we have to learn music theory to make sense out of the ink on the page and turn it into music. It’s a constant journey of pushing yourself to your mental and physical(practicing) limits, then blowing through them. Put the average business major in the room with a guitar and say, “practice four hours” (what I usually practice in a day)and they’d go insane in 20 minutes. It takes dedication and extreme focus (which might be why I like weightlifting so much. who knew?) The real world experience we get is the idea of working hard to get to a goal–not the specifics of what we learn, but the application of that knowledge.

Then I see the average business major where I go to school. Now, my school is particularly well known in the are for its business program. I have only a few words to describe the average business major: disillusioned air-head. Not saying there aren’t smart people in the business school, but most of what I see are guys who go to school specifically for getting a job.

Personally, I’m looking forward to this whole “real world” thing. I’m looking forward to getting out there and actually doing some work. I’m tired of this class bullshit. I’m tired of the atmosphere at school, and I’m tired of the disillusioned people that make up most of the student population. I’m going to be vain for a moment say some things: i’m good at school. It’s not hard to get an A. I skipped every class in a psyschology course between a test and a final and scored the highest on the final I have on any of the tests. I have above a 3.5 GPA, and I rarely do anything in the way of class reading and homework. That’s just me–and it’s also why I have this sneaking suspicion that classes are mostly bullshit.

I can’t wait to get some more experience and work in a real career situation (not just have a job). I just need to finish up this precusor that tells employers I’m “trainable.” One more year.

End Rant. Sorry, that was long.