I have know idea of what to make of this. My erections, and libido are just okay, but I still have bad brain fog, low energy, and sleep a lot. Looks like I need to lower my test cyp injections until my Endo schedules follow up. Any thoughts?[/quote]
No Free T3? Your Free T4 could use some work.
I’m willing to bet your HIGH E2 is causing your symptoms to remain. Did he mention an AI?
I have know idea of what to make of this. My erections, and libido are just okay, but I still have bad brain fog, low energy, and sleep a lot. Looks like I need to lower my test cyp injections until my Endo schedules follow up. Any thoughts?[/quote]
No Free T3? Your Free T4 could use some work.
I’m willing to bet your HIGH E2 is causing your symptoms to remain. Did he mention an AI?
[/quote]
No T3, I haven’t been back to see him since lab, so no discussion about the high E2 yet. I am assuming my T levels are a little high and maybe causing the E2 to be high also. I am thinking if I lower my dose of T it will bring both down, but E2 may still be on the high side if it comes down. I am curious about my low IGF-1.
My Endo has had my lab for 3 weeks now and I finally called to ask what is going on, and set up a appointment. I asked the nurse to find out how much to lower my dose. She called back 2 days later and asked when was my last shot before my lab. I got really upset because I had told him when I went in for my first appointment. I still haven’t heard back from them and my appointment is a month away. I am not happy at all.
I stopped the T on my own for 11 days after the latest lab, because TT and FT was high, along with my E2. (see last labs) Since I haven’t got a response from the Dr I restarted and adjusted my dose from 15cc EOD, too 8cc EOD. I would like some feedback on this, and want to know if I should try to get HCG and a AI on my own and start it. I think I am on the right track because I feel better then I have in a long time, other then when I am stopping and starting the injections because of the worthless Doctors. I still have EQ problems, days where I am tired, and brain fog on some days.
My Endo’s office called today and said he wants me to stay off the T for 4 weeks and get new lab because my T was so high. So when I asked why, when I need to be on it anyway, and if I stop for 4 weeks I will start feeling like crap, and have to start all over again. It wasn’t even the nurse that I was talking to, so she asked her and I got a answer that the high T levels are why I feel bad.
Now I don’t know what to do. I believe that my high E2 levels are probably contributing to the way I feel, and will come down as I adjust my dose, but can the high T make me feel bad? If I don’t stay with him it will ruin my chances of getting prescriptions for everything I need.
Can someone with experience please chime in?
I went back to my GP on Monday because I didn’t want to stop TRT for a month, and do lab again like the new Endo wanted me to do. What a idiot, I have been on TRT for almost 2 years there is know reason for me to stop for new lab work. I printed off the protocols from here and he said he would look at them. I told him how I was doing the Test Cyp SQ EOD and he thought that was a good idea.
His nurse called me Friday ad said he wasn’t comfortable with treating me, because he thought he might be in over his head, so he is setting me up with another Endo at the KU School of Medicine. I believe he talked to the Dr there, and he is on board with the correct treatments. This is getting to be ridiculous and I hope this new Dr works out.
Hey man - frustrating situation!
For me the hardest thing about the whole TRT thing is the waiting. -wait to appt, wait for labs, wait for RX, wait for it to get in your system, wait for results. -it goes on and on. I’m hoping that one day I finally get everything figured out and dialed in. - Hang in. you will get it.
I dont know why your doc would take you completely off it because you do need it. - It will give you a good pre-TRT type lab though.
One thing I noticed (and agree with your doc about) is that you should lower your dose. I had almost the same numbers as you a few months after starting TRT. My T was about 1100 and my E2 was about 60. - I felt like hell! I cut my dose in half and it made a huge difference. - I think the biggest reason it makes you feel so awful is that it jacks up your E2 level.
56 is was high! Reducing your t dose will lower your E2 but you will probably also want to control it with Arimidex or another AI.
Hey man - frustrating situation!
For me the hardest part of the whole TRT thing is the waiting. Waiting for everything - appointments, lab results, stuff to get into your system. - Hang in and be patient. you will get it.
I do agree with your doc that you should reduce your testosterone dosing (but not stopping it completely).
A few months after I started TRT I had numbers just like yours and felt like hell. My T was about 1100 and my E2 was about 60. It was the high E2 that made me feel so crappy.
I cut my dose in half and it made a huge difference. I felt much better.
Reducing your T dose will reduce your E2 to a better amount. You should probably also control it with Arimidex or another AI.
I’m no doc, but spreading out your dose and lowering a bit should help the E2 issue. Give your body a few weeks and then re test to check if you need an AI and how much. Read the injection sticky. Dhea supplement would be good for you. Your tsh looks under control in the new labs. IGF1 is produce by the liver and is a good indicator of human growth hormone levels. If you can afford it look more in to it since that can make a huge difference.
You can also buy a quality IGF1 supplement but I honestly don’t know if they work or safety, do good research on it. Healthy fats like avocado, nuts, omega oil, and, a B complex can help your HDL levels. When you buy a B complex look preferably for methylcobalym as the source of b12 and folate for folic acid. Pick a brand that is GMP or USP certified and preferably contains no titanium dioxide or fillers. Best source of omega 3 is krill oil from what I’ve researched, it contains astaxanthin which helps prevent the liquid become oxidized, if you order some keep it in the fridge. Lastly get a vitamin D blood test. Good luck.
I make a trail mix of dry roasted peanuts, whole walnuts, raisans, and dark chocolate, and that is all I snack on at work and home. I am not taking any supplements right now. I will see the new Endo next Friday and ssk him about the IGF-1 as well. Probaly get new lab since I have lowered my dose. Thanks.
Had a appointment with my second Endo. I spent a lot of talking about HCG. They are defiantly not up to speed on TRT protocols. Anyway I filled them in on what I had been doing, and told them that I lowered T Cyp dose on my own because last labs were elevated. I spent so much time talking about the HCG I forgot to bring up the possible need for a AI.
He recommend Clomid and I let him know I did not want it, so he agreed to write me for HCG. He said he had never written it for what I wanted, and said something about loosing his good standing in the Endo community, and kind of chuckled.
Next day I got the new lab, which they only checked TT, and E2. My TT was down from 1182 to 828, and E2 is down from 66 to 36. The thing is ever since I lowered my dose my sex drive, and EQ has went to crap. What is weird is when my T & E2 was at the higher levels I had good desire and good EQ. I am even on Cialis daily and EQ is shitty.
They said they want me back for new labs in 6 weeks. I don’t know if I should wait until then and see if desire and EQ gets better, or try to get back in and mention taking a AI. Other then that I feel really good. The HCG hasn’t done much for my nuts yet, but I know it has helped my mood for some reason. If I can just get the libido and good EQ back I will be in better shape then I have in years.
[quote]KSman wrote:
you need more Synthroid , and need fT3 labs, a few do not convert T4–>T3 properly
Synthroid should take your TSH towards zero
Monitor your body temps as a dosing guide
you are GH deficient
E2: why are you not on anastole? Lowering T is not the point, that is capitulation
High E2 can be from liver problems or drugs that interfere with E2 clearance. Should be testing ALT, AST.
should be checking hematocrit when on TRT[/quote]
I can start taking more Synthroid. I have plenty of it. Currently at .5mg a day. I will look up info on T4–>T3 conversion and body temps. I did have complete labs done with all the other labs but no T3, I don’t know why. I didn’t post my other labs but I know ALT, and AST were actually in range this time. I have liver profile labs done every 6 months for the last 11 years because of Hep C. Usually they are slightly elevated but not by much.
I know I need to be on a AI but forgot to bring it up with new Doctor. I was spending time talking about the HCG, and everyone is always in a hurry. I might try calling and see if they will precscribe me one with out coming in. I would like to get the TRT Doctors name from you in case this Doc doesn’t work out, but PM’s are not working now.
Funny you mentioned GH, because the Doc said something about it and said they usally only precsribe it for kids because it is so expensive, but it may change in the future. WTF, I don’t get these guys if it is something I need then do your job!
What kind of conversation could I have with to justify the HGH? Thanks for the input!
Low GH increases some of the expected problems of aging. You can get Rx hGH for $300/month at 1 iu per day [hard to find a pharmacy that sells that low]. I had a very good response to 1 iu per day. The tests required are no longer very difficult as the age management doctors are now treating this as just another hormone deficiency. For me, all that was we had was a few years showing progressive decline, then after years of not testing, one test that had a low result. I feel a lot better with GH.
While GH is expensive, it may offset the costs of compensating for the medical costs that result from low GH. While heath insurance and medical plans may pick up those costs, there is great resistance to GH.
With GH my rate of skin cell turnover is greatly increased. That has always been high for me, but that was greatly reduced as I have aged. Adding TRT restored some of that, as it made me more anabolic [less catabolic]. TRT thickened my skin which had become thin, frail and inelastic. Adding GH illustrates an increase in cell turnover rates that is above and beyond the effects of TRT.
One’s IGF-1 response to hCG depends on how one’s liver responds to it an releases IGF-1. GH also has other direct effects not mediated by IGF-1. With my first injection my BP and pulse increased a lot, settled down after a couple of days. I mention that only to illustrate the point that there is more than GH–>IGF-1 happening.
IGF-1 has a reasonable half life that makes it a good proxy for GH levels. GH has a half life in serum of a few minutes. When you inject, the HG takes a while to leave the injection site and get into circulation. That does extend the time that GH would be in the blood, but once there, it is gone quickly.
Governments do not want you on GH and they like that it is so expensive that few will use it. The pension and health care cost impact of people living longer on GH is the problem.
Edit-added: After a severe surgical infection two years ago, I came out of the hospital with a flare of Osteo-arthritis that has been a real problem. It was getting worse. A month or so after starting GH [May 2012], the problem became much less inflammatory and my hands started to feel like they were healing.
So IGF-1 is the indicator of low GH? Looks like I got more studding to do. You said in another post that there is a good TRT Doctor near me. How do you suggest that I get the TRT Doctor information from you since my PM’s are not working for the last several weeks?
KSman, Now I know why the Doc said something about HGH. I have read a little on IGF-1 but there is so much stuff out there I am lost right now. It sounds like high Estrogen may effect IGF-1?, I also have Hep-C and that could very well be a player? I have never had any problems from it that I know of (other then the idiot DR’s prescribing chemo which probably caused some of my problems now plus the hell I went through from it).
Seems like HGH would be a good choice for me if I can get the Dr to write it. Are you seeing the TRT Doc that you mentioned? I assume he will write for the HGH. I know he doesn’t except insurance, but will insurance pick up scripts from these Docs? The guy I believe you are talking about is in a small town just NW of KC? Sorry for all the questions. Thanks for the info. Yes I’m in Wichita.
That is the right location. Tell them I sent you, they know my handle. There are two docs there now. I referred another guy from Wichita there, one visit then tele medicine since then. Insurance will be for a doctor who is out of plan and coverage for anything is then reduced. I have a high deductible plan and pay for things with an HSA card that is funded with pre-tax dollars; that is helpful. I do not make any claims to my insurance company, so do not know how that would work out.
Your liver’s IGF-1 response to GH might be reduced. One could test GH and IGF-1 at the same time, but GH levels change a lot with pulses. So hard to analyze and that might be costly as well. When injecting GH, one gets good data, knowing GH input and IGF-1 results.
Cool! If the Doc I have now doesn’t work out I will be going there next. I used to work for a company that our corporate office was in Lawrence. Made quite a few trips there. Also big KU fan! If I make it up that way I will give you a Shout. Thanks for all the info.