[quote]pushharder wrote:
I was very impressed with much of what Ron Paul had to say
[/quote]
So was I…on the economy and Church and state.
John, sometimes your misinterpretation of the constitution is quite staggering.
Zeb, Where does the constitution say the US is supposed to be the world’s superpower?
You know for a fact it was not the intent of the constitution to empower the military-industrial-complex and the banksters while impoverishing its citizens.
Constitution be damned: evil is evil.
The world does not need US interference.
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
[quote]reddog6376 wrote:
None of which involved the USA
[/quote]
They involved the entire world. That’s why it became a world war. Poland, for instance was unable to remain neutral. See what I mean?[/quote]
And how did it benefit the US to defend Poland? Should we defend every country around the world that is ever invaded?
Ridiculous. Britain desperately needed WAR MATERIALS. Especially destroyers. Britain couldn’t feed itself without imports and without destroyers the fucking Uboats would’ve starved them out. Russia would’ve crumbled without US/British WAR MATERIALS.[/quote]
Fine we certainly could have sold, lent or given them all the war materials they needed I’m not saying we should not have supported them, but I don’t think we had cause to join their war.[quote]
The US never wanted to act as the world’s police. It was always forced into it by necessity. People realised that having the rest of the world exterminated and subjugated by Japs and Nazis would not be good for the US. People realised that having the rest of the world living under Communist dictatorships would not be good for the US. I understand how expensive and unfair it is but you’ve got no choice pal. You’re our police force. Get used to it.[/quote]
Remember that Hitler was an unintended consequence of the Treaty of Versailles. Had the US never entered WWI → no Treaty of Versailles → no Hitler → no WWII → no Holocaust → no 1947 UN Resolution 181 → no 65 years of Middle East war → no PLO, Hamas or Al Qaeda(?) → no 9-11(?). The law of unintended consequences.
[quote]
[quote]
I think we should mind our own business. Then if we are ever attacked in any fashion, we go to war and wipe the atackers off the face of the map. No Marshall Plan, no nation building, just smoke corpses. If we aren’t willing to go that far, then we don’t hae sufficinet cause for war.[/quote]
You WILL be attacked in EVERY fashion if you allow the rest of the world to be subjugated by Islamists/Communists. Even the conservatives here think I’m an extremist but your comments about smoking corpses and letting the rest of the world die becaue they’re not American is fucking morally AND rationally bankrupt.[/quote]
If they rest of the world clearly knew that any attack on the US would be met with overwhelming force, there would not be an attack. Particularly if we weren’t running around the world sticking our nose in everyone elses business. I don’t believe that if the US did not act as the worlds police force the rest of the world would die. They would realize they must provide for their own defence, and they would. By your logic, if you see two neighbors arguing over something that doesn’t concern you and you go over and pick one side and beging assaulting the other side, that is moral? I disagree.
Hindsight is a bitch, ain’t it?
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]reddog6376 wrote:
…Remember that Hitler was an unintended consequence of the Treaty of Versailles. Had the US never entered WWI → no Treaty of Versailles → no Hitler → no WWII → no Holocaust → no 1947 UN Resolution 181 → no 65 years of Middle East war → no PLO, Hamas or Al Qaeda(?) → no 9-11(?). The law of unintended consequences…
[/quote]
We could play this game for months and months and months:
On July 2, 1881, in a Washington railroad station, an embittered attorney who had sought a consular post shot and killed the 20th POTUS, James Garfield. Alexander Graham Bell, inventor of the telephone, tried unsuccessfully to find the bullet with an induction-balance electrical device which he had designed. Garfield’s death ushered in the Arthur administration which certainly set the stage for Grover Cleveland’s ascendancy to the hightes office in the land.
Had Grover Cleveland never been elected to the presidency twice in non concurrent terms the way for William McKinley to be elected would not have been paved. McKinley was responsible for the Spanish American War and for the United States annexing the Philippines, Guam, and Puerto Rico. This produced the early 20th century “imperialism” bent of successive administrations leading to the US’ entry into WWI and the subsequent Treaty of Versailles…Remember that Hitler was an unintended consequence of the Treaty of Versailles. Had the US never entered WWI → no Treaty of Versailles → no Hitler → no WWII → no Holocaust → no 1947 UN Resolution 181 → no 65 years of Middle East war → no PLO, Hamas or Al Qaeda(?) → no 9-11(?). The law of unintended consequences…
So Al Qaeda and 9-11 can absolutely be blamed ultimately on the dumb son of a bitch who invented the telephone. Cocksucker.
[/quote]
Yes we could. My scenerio is no less likely Sex’s speculation that if the US hadn’t entered WWII the world would be ruled by Nazi’s and Communists, and if the US had a more non-intervention foreign policy we’d be under frequent attack.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]reddog6376 wrote:
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]reddog6376 wrote:
…Remember that Hitler was an unintended consequence of the Treaty of Versailles. Had the US never entered WWI → no Treaty of Versailles → no Hitler → no WWII → no Holocaust → no 1947 UN Resolution 181 → no 65 years of Middle East war → no PLO, Hamas or Al Qaeda(?) → no 9-11(?). The law of unintended consequences…
[/quote]
We could play this game for months and months and months:
On July 2, 1881, in a Washington railroad station, an embittered attorney who had sought a consular post shot and killed the 20th POTUS, James Garfield. Alexander Graham Bell, inventor of the telephone, tried unsuccessfully to find the bullet with an induction-balance electrical device which he had designed. Garfield’s death ushered in the Arthur administration which certainly set the stage for Grover Cleveland’s ascendancy to the hightes office in the land.
Had Grover Cleveland never been elected to the presidency twice in non concurrent terms the way for William McKinley to be elected would not have been paved. McKinley was responsible for the Spanish American War and for the United States annexing the Philippines, Guam, and Puerto Rico. This produced the early 20th century “imperialism” bent of successive administrations leading to the US’ entry into WWI and the subsequent Treaty of Versailles…Remember that Hitler was an unintended consequence of the Treaty of Versailles. Had the US never entered WWI → no Treaty of Versailles → no Hitler → no WWII → no Holocaust → no 1947 UN Resolution 181 → no 65 years of Middle East war → no PLO, Hamas or Al Qaeda(?) → no 9-11(?). The law of unintended consequences…
So Al Qaeda and 9-11 can absolutely be blamed ultimately on the dumb son of a bitch who invented the telephone. Cocksucker.
[/quote]
Yes we could. My scenerio is no less likely Sex’s speculation that if the US hadn’t entered WWII the world would be ruled by Nazi’s and Communists, and if the US had a more non-intervention foreign policy we’d be under frequent attack.
[/quote]
But his speculation is logically, immediately and directly plausible.[/quote]
I’ll grant you the WWI → … ->9/11 was a stretch (that’s why I put in the (?). But I stand by the WWI → … no WWII.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Hindsight is a bitch, ain’t it?[/quote]
Yep.
And Bell’s grandfather had been associated with work on elocution and speech and worked with the deaf, profoundly influencing Bell’s life’s work.
So to be honest…deaf people caused 9-11.[/quote]
So what you are saying is that 9-11 was inevitable. Interesting.
Being a Ron Paul supporter must be like being a Chicago Cubs fan. You can love them all you want but they just never even get to the world series.
[quote]reddog6376 wrote:
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]reddog6376 wrote:
…Remember that Hitler was an unintended consequence of the Treaty of Versailles. Had the US never entered WWI → no Treaty of Versailles → no Hitler → no WWII → no Holocaust → no 1947 UN Resolution 181 → no 65 years of Middle East war → no PLO, Hamas or Al Qaeda(?) → no 9-11(?). The law of unintended consequences…
[/quote]
We could play this game for months and months and months:
On July 2, 1881, in a Washington railroad station, an embittered attorney who had sought a consular post shot and killed the 20th POTUS, James Garfield. Alexander Graham Bell, inventor of the telephone, tried unsuccessfully to find the bullet with an induction-balance electrical device which he had designed. Garfield’s death ushered in the Arthur administration which certainly set the stage for Grover Cleveland’s ascendancy to the hightes office in the land.
Had Grover Cleveland never been elected to the presidency twice in non concurrent terms the way for William McKinley to be elected would not have been paved. McKinley was responsible for the Spanish American War and for the United States annexing the Philippines, Guam, and Puerto Rico. This produced the early 20th century “imperialism” bent of successive administrations leading to the US’ entry into WWI and the subsequent Treaty of Versailles…Remember that Hitler was an unintended consequence of the Treaty of Versailles. Had the US never entered WWI → no Treaty of Versailles → no Hitler → no WWII → no Holocaust → no 1947 UN Resolution 181 → no 65 years of Middle East war → no PLO, Hamas or Al Qaeda(?) → no 9-11(?). The law of unintended consequences…
So Al Qaeda and 9-11 can absolutely be blamed ultimately on the dumb son of a bitch who invented the telephone. Cocksucker.
[/quote]
Yes we could. My scenerio is no less likely Sex’s speculation that if the US hadn’t entered WWII the world would be ruled by Nazi’s and Communists, and if the US had a more non-intervention foreign policy we’d be under frequent attack.
[/quote]
I didn’t speculate about the world being taken over by Japs and Nazis. I suggested that it was a good thing that the US entered the war for themselves and for the rest of the world.
I don’t intend to speculate about how things would’ve played out had America witheld destroyers and lend lease from Britain and kept supplying oil to the Japanese or something. It’s all hypothetical nonsense. What’s not nonsense is that it was a good idea for the US to help Britain and cut off oil to the Japanese for any number of reasons including its own security.
RE The Versailles Treaty:
How the European war came about is extremely complex and relates to the Great War and lots more besides. I don’t want to go into how the European war started too much because it’s incredibly complex and you keep having to go further back in history to explain it all. It’s ridiculous to say it resulted directly from the Versailles Treaty. There were the following elements:
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The fall of the three eagle dynasties(Habsburg, Hohenzollern and Romanov) due to numerous reasons not least of which was the tremendous casualties and cost of the Great War and existing revolutionary forces of the far-left which had been simmering since the 1880’s and went back further to the French and American revolutions and have parallels throughout history.
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The rise of militant Marxist/Socialist political groups/Unions and the arming of Freikorps by the Weimar republic to oppose them.
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The rise of a nutty Socialist personality cult with nationalist overtones in Italy and its emulation by an insane war veteren and tramp with a toothbrush moustache and a gang of thugs with the unter menschens and the lebensraum and the Cocaine eyedrops and the 70 million Hunns at his disposal and so forth.
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The stock market crash and the worldwide depression.
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The fact that the Hunns were getting brainwashed by toothbrush propaganda and Hindenburg was old and frightened and von Papen took the Reichstag and toothbrush man became Chancellor and the Reichstag fire and the marshall law and the snuffing of the leadership of one of the toothbrush gangs(SA) and the dictatorship and so forth.
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The fact that the 70 million Hunns were already rearming during the Weimer era and the toothbrush man stepped up that rearmament and France started getting worried and Britain too, and Poland and anyone else who lived near toothbrush land who wasn’t a Hunn.
Couldn’t be bothered, it’s too complex.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
Yes ^, Just like Ron Paul’s foreign policy views, to say the Versailles Treaty was THE reason for the rise of the Third Reich and its atrocities is…too simplistic. The world political chess game is and always has been one complicated mess.[/quote]
Well, let’s break it down. If the US had not entered WWI, do you think the Central Powers would have won or lost?
Interesting.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]reddog6376 wrote:
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]reddog6376 wrote:
…Remember that Hitler was an unintended consequence of the Treaty of Versailles. Had the US never entered WWI → no Treaty of Versailles → no Hitler → no WWII → no Holocaust → no 1947 UN Resolution 181 → no 65 years of Middle East war → no PLO, Hamas or Al Qaeda(?) → no 9-11(?). The law of unintended consequences…
[/quote]
We could play this game for months and months and months:
On July 2, 1881, in a Washington railroad station, an embittered attorney who had sought a consular post shot and killed the 20th POTUS, James Garfield. Alexander Graham Bell, inventor of the telephone, tried unsuccessfully to find the bullet with an induction-balance electrical device which he had designed. Garfield’s death ushered in the Arthur administration which certainly set the stage for Grover Cleveland’s ascendancy to the hightes office in the land.
Had Grover Cleveland never been elected to the presidency twice in non concurrent terms the way for William McKinley to be elected would not have been paved. McKinley was responsible for the Spanish American War and for the United States annexing the Philippines, Guam, and Puerto Rico. This produced the early 20th century “imperialism” bent of successive administrations leading to the US’ entry into WWI and the subsequent Treaty of Versailles…Remember that Hitler was an unintended consequence of the Treaty of Versailles. Had the US never entered WWI → no Treaty of Versailles → no Hitler → no WWII → no Holocaust → no 1947 UN Resolution 181 → no 65 years of Middle East war → no PLO, Hamas or Al Qaeda(?) → no 9-11(?). The law of unintended consequences…
So Al Qaeda and 9-11 can absolutely be blamed ultimately on the dumb son of a bitch who invented the telephone. Cocksucker.
[/quote]
Yes we could. My scenerio is no less likely Sex’s speculation that if the US hadn’t entered WWII the world would be ruled by Nazi’s and Communists, and if the US had a more non-intervention foreign policy we’d be under frequent attack.
[/quote]
But his speculation is logically, immediately and directly plausible.[/quote]
No, really, it isn’t. Communist regimes can’t stay in power for any reasonable length of time simply because the system is unworkable. It took the Soviet empire a while to crumble apart but it started very early, possibly even right after Stalin’s death. This idea of a communist world empire is simply laughable.