Close to Victory in Iraq!!

[Headhunter]

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
orion wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
Beowolf wrote:
“Again, even if this had been done 1 million times in the past, IT DOESN’T MAKE IT RIGHT AND SHOULD BE ROUNDLY CONDEMNED.”

To paraphrase JeffR from another thread…

Alright. Let’s follow your plan. Then:

When the lights go out in your apartment, when there is no food on the grocery store shelves, when there is no heat in the winter, maybe…just maybe, you’ll get it.

When a gang strips you of your coat and you are freezing to death, you can at least take comfort in the fact that America didn’t exert its bully-like ways to secure oil.

I have a better idea.

Draw your troops back, let some shithead assume power and simply buy the oil from him.

Since he is going to need the revenues to keep in power he has to sell.

After having not spent billions on the military and with cheap and stable oil prices you could repair your infrastructure to make it save for the 21st century.

Nope, that’d make too much sense. Let’s just go to war with the whole motherfucking world in our quest for resources, just like the empires of old.

I mean, what the fuck? Headhunter don’t give two shits, it ain’t gonna be him fighting the goddamn war. Who will get drafted? Me, working class New Jersey 23 year old, I’m the one that will do the damn fighting, so chickenhawks like him can sit there and preach death and hatred.

Baby, ain’t that America…[/quote]

So you and Orion now want to us to step back and trust that whoever is in charge, probably someone vile and evil enough to restore order by terror, will happily sell oil at a reasonable price? That they would never DREAM of using our reliance upon oil as a weapon against us?

And Irish, c’mon, if you’re afraid to fight, Canada’s only a few hours away.

OT: Didn’t both of you gents say that the Japs were provoked into attacking us because we withheld vital commodities from them, in an earlier thread? So, somehow, the Japs were provoked by the evil USA and the USA caused it all by not selling oil. But now, when the Arabs are driving up the price of oil and things are getting desperate, America is evil because it wants oil? Seems we’re damnned if we do and damnned if we don’t.
(If my memory is faulty here, I humbly apologize.)

[anon31651765]

[quote]Headhunter wrote:

So you and Orion now want to us to step back and trust that whoever is in charge, probably someone vile and evil enough to restore order by terror, will happily sell oil at a reasonable price? That they would never DREAM of using our reliance upon oil as a weapon against us?
[/quote]

Well the answer is to break the motherfucking addiction, not to murder the damn dealer and get kids killed in the process. Force is the last resort, dimplomacy the best one.

And Irish, c’mon, if you’re afraid to fight, Canada’s only a few hours away.

Where’s your motherfucking service record? Asthma my fucking ass.

I only fight for what I consider important, and I’m not dying for oil. Leave the country? If it came to a war that I though was unjust, damn right I would. I fight for no man, especially no oil barons.

OT: Didn’t both of you gents say that the Japs were provoked into attacking us because we withheld vital commodities from them, in an earlier thread? So, somehow, the Japs were provoked by the evil USA and the USA caused it all by not selling oil. But now, when the Arabs are driving up the price of oil and things are getting desperate, America is evil because it wants oil? Seems we’re damnned if we do and damnned if we don’t.
(If my memory is faulty here, I humbly apologize.)

No, I never said that. I’ve made clear in the past that WWII was, in my eyes, the Good War, and we were on the right side and made the right decisions, including the dropping of the atomic bomb to end it quicker.

[Headhunter]

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Headhunter wrote:

So you and Orion now want to us to step back and trust that whoever is in charge, probably someone vile and evil enough to restore order by terror, will happily sell oil at a reasonable price? That they would never DREAM of using our reliance upon oil as a weapon against us?

Well the answer is to break the motherfucking addiction, not to murder the damn dealer and get kids killed in the process. Force is the last resort, dimplomacy the best one.

And Irish, c’mon, if you’re afraid to fight, Canada’s only a few hours away.

Where’s your motherfucking service record? Asthma my fucking ass.

I only fight for what I consider important, and I’m not dying for oil. Leave the country? If it came to a war that I though was unjust, damn right I would. I fight for no man, especially no oil barons.

OT: Didn’t both of you gents say that the Japs were provoked into attacking us because we withheld vital commodities from them, in an earlier thread? So, somehow, the Japs were provoked by the evil USA and the USA caused it all by not selling oil. But now, when the Arabs are driving up the price of oil and things are getting desperate, America is evil because it wants oil? Seems we’re damnned if we do and damnned if we don’t.
(If my memory is faulty here, I humbly apologize.)

No, I never said that. I’ve made clear in the past that WWII was, in my eyes, the Good War, and we were on the right side and made the right decisions, including the dropping of the atomic bomb to end it quicker.[/quote]

What alternative IS there to oil? Seawater? And you do realize that if your car is plugged in recharging for the night, that requires either nukes (oh no!!) or a whole hell of a lot of coal and the waste from that. Despite political rhetoric to the contrary, we’re going to be dependent on oil for a long, long time.

The scumbags in the ME know this. They therefore have engineered one of the largest wealth transfers in history. $90 per barrel is in the offing, $100 is around the corner. Do you realize the consequences sooner or later of that? We’ll get a MASSIVE Great Depression and a military takeover here.

All of this can be averted if we strike NOW and get the oil at a reasonable price from the natives.

Oh, and yes I do have asthma and would happily take your place, if the chance arose. But then…you have a degree. You can be an officer! Imagine leading your company into Riyadh, capping ragheads, and securing the nearby oil fields for your country! Man, how sweet!!

[orion]

[quote]Headhunter wrote:

So you and Orion now want to us to step back and trust that whoever is in charge, probably someone vile and evil enough to restore order by terror, will happily sell oil at a reasonable price? That they would never DREAM of using our reliance upon oil as a weapon against us?

[/quote]

First of all, the bulk of your oil comes from Venezuela and Canada.

So, whatever some evil genius planned, who cares.

Then, those countries HAVE TO SELL.

Their medieval societies work because they can bribe their population, they cannot stop exporting for even half a year and even then you simply had to outbid the Chinese when it comes to Russian oil.

Plus, when oil prices continue to rise it makes sense to develop technologies to re-open old oil fields and/or explore previously inefficient ones.

When all else fails you can even make oil out of coal, so what is the problem?

[lixy]

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
All of this can be averted if we strike NOW and get the oil at a reasonable price from the natives. [/quote]

And by the time those natives come back crashing planes in your buildings and blowing shit up, it’ll be your kids problem. Right?

[The_Mage]

Actually the Mid-East is kind of stuck selling oil. It may seem that they have unlimited wealth, and could stop at any time, but the oil is what keeps the leaders in power over there. If it stops, the money goes away, as do the jobs.

Dubai figured this out, and is trying to get their country to have another source of income. Tourism.

We may be addicted to buying it, but they are addicted to selling it. It is why none of OPEC has ever cut to match quotas. Even now they are producing a half million barrels a day more then they are supposed to.

When Iraq was cut off, it didn’t take long for that country to start failing. The people were ready to get rid of Saddam, (which was the reason,) but some bleeding heart (easily manipulated) came up with the food for oil scam, and suddenly Saddam had billions, and power again.

There is one European country that is only producing about half of what it can. And last I heard is causing political problems because of that.

Every day technology advances, and oil becomes a little less important. We have developed the ability to turn almost anything into oil.

http://discovermagazine.com/2006/apr/anything-oil

We are also starting to get close to the time ethanol becomes an energy source here. One of the biggest problems was that there were no real refineries for ethanol in America. Now the opposite is about to occur. After the President’s speech a shot while ago, and the mention of ethanol, suddenly cities and counties across the country decided to get into ethanol.

Now there has been an overbuild, and once those refineries are up and running, the cost of ethanol will plunge, and unfortunately corn will rise. (Actually that is already happening.) Ethanol is not perfect of course, but the information saying it is a negative energy source is way out of date. If they were intelligent, (doubtful) the new refineries would have been built to be able to handle more then just corn.

The thing is while we do need oil, we will have no problem buying it, and if there actually was some sort of problem getting oil, we are in a position to shift to alternative energy sources, although that will take time and cost a lot. But we could do it. And ever day it becomes easier, and cheaper to do.

The only time a war for oil would make sense is if there was actually something preventing us from getting oil, and that has not occurred. Supplies may have been tight from time to time, but we have not experienced loss of oil for a long time, and plenty is flowing if you don’t listen to the peak oil loons that is. (Well they will eventually be right.)

[Headhunter]

[quote]lixy wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
All of this can be averted if we strike NOW and get the oil at a reasonable price from the natives.

And by the time those natives come back crashing planes in your buildings and blowing shit up, it’ll be your kids problem. Right?[/quote]

The oil fields will be the only areas occupied. We learned in Iraq that its simply better to let the people kill each other, which they seem to relish.

Certainly security will have to be stepped up. Chavez will have to be eliminated and the oil fields returned to their rightful owners. We’ll have to guard against terrorism. What of it? Is NOW better than that? Is being drained by vampires preferable?

[orion]

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
lixy wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
All of this can be averted if we strike NOW and get the oil at a reasonable price from the natives.

And by the time those natives come back crashing planes in your buildings and blowing shit up, it’ll be your kids problem. Right?

The oil fields will be the only areas occupied. We learned in Iraq that its simply better to let the people kill each other, which they seem to relish.

Certainly security will have to be stepped up. Chavez will have to be eliminated and the oil fields returned to their rightful owners. We’ll have to guard against terrorism. What of it? Is NOW better than that? Is being drained by vampires preferable?

[/quote]

Don`t you want to suck away their lifeblood because you are addicted to it?

Who is the vampire in your example?

[Headhunter]

[quote]orion wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
lixy wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
All of this can be averted if we strike NOW and get the oil at a reasonable price from the natives.

And by the time those natives come back crashing planes in your buildings and blowing shit up, it’ll be your kids problem. Right?

The oil fields will be the only areas occupied. We learned in Iraq that its simply better to let the people kill each other, which they seem to relish.

Certainly security will have to be stepped up. Chavez will have to be eliminated and the oil fields returned to their rightful owners. We’ll have to guard against terrorism. What of it? Is NOW better than that? Is being drained by vampires preferable?

Don`t you want to suck away their lifeblood because you are addicted to it?

Who is the vampire in your example?

[/quote]

You’re a staunch capitalist. Who’s property is it anyway? Goatherds and pigfarmers? They’d have never thought of how to use oil or how to have an industrial civilisation in a million years.

As I’ve said before, pay them a fee for crossing and using their land which happens to lie above the oil. Make their leadership use the money for schools, hospitals and the like — instead of for trips for shieks and el presidente to ski in the Austrian Alps.

[orion]

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
orion wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
lixy wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
All of this can be averted if we strike NOW and get the oil at a reasonable price from the natives.

And by the time those natives come back crashing planes in your buildings and blowing shit up, it’ll be your kids problem. Right?

The oil fields will be the only areas occupied. We learned in Iraq that its simply better to let the people kill each other, which they seem to relish.

Certainly security will have to be stepped up. Chavez will have to be eliminated and the oil fields returned to their rightful owners. We’ll have to guard against terrorism. What of it? Is NOW better than that? Is being drained by vampires preferable?

Don`t you want to suck away their lifeblood because you are addicted to it?

Who is the vampire in your example?

You’re a staunch capitalist. Who’s property is it anyway? Goatherds and pigfarmers? They’d have never thought of how to use oil or how to have an industrial civilisation in a million years.

As I’ve said before, pay them a fee for crossing and using their land which happens to lie above the oil. Make their leadership use the money for schools, hospitals and the like — instead of for trips for shieks and el presidente to ski in the Austrian Alps.

[/quote]

I am a capitalist and you want to take away stuff from people who own it now, whowever may have owned it previously.

If you want it, pay for it.

They are also more than capable of drilling for their own oil.

Iran actually puts her oil money into infrastructure, so I guess you are a-ok with them?

Relax-

They have to sell, you have to buy.

Or go the European route and built a pipeline to Russia, just in case.

It is for natural gas, but it will keep us warm if all else fails.

[BostonBarrister]

Things definitely appear to be getting better in Iraq.

http://pajamasmedia.com/xpress/michaelledeen/2007/10/20/maybe_were_winning_in_iraq.php

Also, check out this photo essay from Baghdad:

http://www.mudvillegazette.com/archives/009552.html

Not perfect yet – there are still some very dangerous areas in Iraq. But progress is occurring, and things are looking up in areas that had been all but written off.

[Headhunter]

[quote]BostonBarrister wrote:
Things definitely appear to be getting better in Iraq.

http://pajamasmedia.com/xpress/michaelledeen/2007/10/20/maybe_were_winning_in_iraq.php

Also, check out this photo essay from Baghdad:

http://www.mudvillegazette.com/archives/009552.html

Not perfect yet – there are still some very dangerous areas in Iraq. But progress is occurring, and things are looking up in areas that had been all but written off.[/quote]

Yup. Only a fool bets against the United States.

[Zap_Branigan]

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
BostonBarrister wrote:
Things definitely appear to be getting better in Iraq.

http://pajamasmedia.com/xpress/michaelledeen/2007/10/20/maybe_were_winning_in_iraq.php

Also, check out this photo essay from Baghdad:

http://www.mudvillegazette.com/archives/009552.html

Not perfect yet – there are still some very dangerous areas in Iraq. But progress is occurring, and things are looking up in areas that had been all but written off.

Yup. Only a fool bets against the United States.

[/quote]

Except in soccer.

[Zap_Branigan]

Greetings:

It is clear that Iraq is turning a corner. Not only are Sunni and Shia talking here in Baghdad, but the fighting definitely is abating. I’ll be out in Sunni and Shia neighborhoods all day Tuesday and Wednesday. Petraeus’ ideas are starting to work.

I’ve been watching for days as LTC Patrick Frank pulls neighborhoods together here in the Rashid district of Baghdad. We’ve been swamped going to reconciliation meetings. ( Spent hours in meetings today. ) LTC Frank is one of many battalion commanders I have seen who are winning in their zones. A Washington Post writer was here for several days and his observations were similar.
Again, I suggest to media to get in touch with Infantry battalion commanders around Iraq. They are the sweet-spot on the ups and downs in Iraq.

I am working with the National Newspaper Association to get the increasingly good news about Iraq to a wider audience. This is described in the latest dispatch, Resistance is Futile. With reader support, this effort can get current news from the ground in Iraq in to 2700 daily and weekly newspapers in the US.

Michael
Baghdad

http://www.michaelyon-online.com/wp/resistance-is-futile.htm