[quote]Mr. Chen wrote:
As to the Cana wedding question, I’ll address all your comments in this one post. I’m working with half my brain tied behind my back, so it’ll be easier for me.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
In a way this discussion reminds me of the teetotalers who INSIST that Jesus would NEVER had made actual alcoholic wine at the wedding in Cana. “No way!!!”
However, the “systematic” approach taken by the teetotaling crowd will simply not allow this, the proper, interpretation. [/quote]
I’m not interested in upholding anyone’s specific understanding. Before I was a Christian, I liked wine a lot. If the Saviour approved, I’d be glad to have a glass.
You are criticizing the systematic approach because you think it disagrees with your understanding of their culture.
First, I’ll say that Jesus is not obligated to do things according to the prevailing habits of the people as far as what was drunk at the average wedding. His motivation is righteousness first, not what will make everyone happy. So, he would be keeping in mind:
Pro 23:31 Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright.
Hab 2:15 Woe unto him that giveth his neighbour drink, that puttest thy bottle to him, and makest him drunken also, that thou mayest look on their nakedness!
[quote]Makavali wrote:
Unfermented wine? That’s just grape juice, why wouldn’t the Bible just say that instead of wine? If he’s creating this stuff out of water, I’m pretty sure they would make the effort to be somewhat accurate.[/quote]
In the bible, “wine” is a general term. There is “new” and “old.” Please note:
Mat 9:17 Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved.
Obviously, as the wine gets old it ferments, which would cause and old bottle to explode.
Yes, new wine is grapejuice, as this passages makes clear:
Mat 26:27 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it;
Mat 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
Mat 26:29 But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father’s kingdom.
One must also keep in mind that “wine” making was very primitive back then. Not the scientifically controlled process they use to day. Uncontrolled fermentation would not yield something that’s 7-10% alcohol, AND still taste good. NOBODY was drinking Christian Brothers back then. Sorry young Orion, it’s just more shenanigans by the monks.
And the systematic approach is required if you’re going to get it right, and to be one of the big boys:
Isa 28:9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
Isa 28:10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:
[/quote]
What is it you are saying about drinking? All wine was alcoholic in the ancient world right? Getting drunk is not always bad right? i.e. Noah, Abraham etc I don’t think there are many people who would argue that being a drunkard is okay but the beneficial aspects of alcohol were and are well known.
‘Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach’s sake and thine often infirmities.’ - 1 Timothy 5:23