Christopher Hitchens Dies

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
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[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
It is not “psychology”. It is a mind renewed in the holy Spirit of almighty God. I have against female senior pastors anyway that the Word of God forbids it. I now how anachronistic that may sound, but God’s truth is eternal.[/quote]

Psychology is the study of how people think. It is not definitionally against the Bible to study or explore how people think or feel. Noe does it make their thoughts or feelings de facto wrong or right, valid or invalid or biblical or unbiblical.

So that means that no such person exists, just because you havent heard of them yourself. I see.

[quote]Please hear this too. I once owned a personal library of well over 2000 volumes, about 40 or 45% of which was total crap. On purpose. I have read more heretical God hating heresy than dare I say everybody else in these threads combined. I will look at anything. Matthew 7:13-14 [quote]<<< 13-"Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. 14-“For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it”. >>>[/quote] God does not leave it up to us to define His truth for Him. He has a very narrow and simple plan. YOU are dead. HE will make you live. On His terms His way.
[/quote]

Are you making a judgment on me individually friend? You don’t even know me, aside from what I allow people to read on the internet, which may or may not be my actual thoughts on any given matter at hand anyway. I play devils advocate quite a bit. and secondly what does that last statement above have anything to do with the thread anyway?

[quote]It ain’t about good morals (which is a joke for all these emergent whores anyway) or nifty sayings and peachy lovey feelings. It’s about life and death. Debbie Blue is a proclaimer of doctrines of demons for those who “will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires, turning away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths”. Come on, you know where that is. Listen to that reprehensible “sermon” on the golden calf and tell me what you think.

See you think guys like Push are funny. That tells me a lot. I would very much like to hear your view on what she says in that getting out of Egypt piece. 10/16/11 – Getting Out of Egypt (Rev. Debbie Blue) | House of Mercy I can predict it now. Ohhhhh, yer jist seeing it yer way… she didn’t mean anything bad. We are lost. The western world is lost and floundering in a sea of satanic broad minded tolerance.
[/quote]

If I got upset and angry by everything I disagreed with or found immoral, i’d be dead from ulcers and a heart attack. We laugh so we don’t end up in a watchtower. whats the phrase? “i laugh to keep from crying”? Something along those lines. I bet Jesus had a sense of humor too. I’ll be he could laugh at himself (not that I am saying swinging is biblical in any way, and of course I am not remotely comparing the two situations or people. Just in case you had some question for some unfathomable reason)

[quote]
Here. Ya want something worth reading for somebody who actually loves the one true God of all creation. His By Grace--"John Gill: A Body of Doctrinal & Practical Divinity-Table of Contents" That’s how the bible is done my friend. [/quote]

You seem to know a lot about the Bible. You definitely seem to think you have a pretty all-encompassing view on what is and is not specifically and exactly taught in the Bible too. But you’re not the only one. I know a number of Ph.Ds in theology and divinity that are friends of the my fathers family, who also would happen to take issue with a few things you’ve said in your blanket statements. Is it too far of a stretch to think you’ll get to the Pearly Gates one day and God will go “Crap Trib, you really screwed the pooch on that passage. I wasn’t saying that at all. That’s ok, come on in i’ll set you straight after dinner”?

Regarding the sermons, I am at work on my mobile typing all this, and I am busy. I am not going to read an entire encyclopedia, which it looks like the links is, linking to an entire series of books. Was there some smaller part of thatthat whole thing you wanted me to read?

And you never addressed my statement about CS Lewis or Tolkien. Did they have anything of substance to add or not?

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You know Tirib, I feel the need to point out the fact that you never answered my questions or actually addressed my posts. You asked for bible verse to back up my argument, and I more than provided them. I’ve held up my end of the deal, and you’ve ducked and dodged ever since.

At least Mr. Chen had the balls to actually say that he thinks those shitty bible verses are just fine with him, and that if god IS a murdering, hateful, torturous, child sacrificing son of a bitch who happens to also have a proclivity for rape, well then so be it. He’s fucking god, and he can if he wants to.

Seriously. What…The…Fuck? Is this what you really believe? Dawkins is right, in that belief such as yours in god, is absolutely a delusion. Just do yourself a favor; answer my questions and address my posts.

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“You can’t convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it’s based on a deep seated need to believe” -Dr. Carl Sagan

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[quote]Aragorn wrote:
A note to Quick Ben and a couple others (bigflamer perhaps). You might consider reading the book the Good and Beautiful God. I say that because it may aid you in understanding how in the world people like Tirib and Chen can possibly feel as they do about the goodness of God. Sort of a “sociology in action” thing. The book isn’t a proselytizing nightmare, although unfortunately for you it will not address the intellectual argument/debate/train wreck/pissing contest that you find so stimulating (and myself as well). So I recommend it on both those accounts.

I would suggest reading it with your cynicism off. I have a rather overactive cynicism button myself, but I think you’ll understand more about how many Christians like Tirib feel about God if you just read it like a book and think about it rather than going all Hitchens on it from the word “go” :P. I mean, come on, you already know you’re going to disagree with about everything in there from the start, so just read it to get an idea about how they feel. It’s an extremely easy read and short so I don’t think it should cause too much trouble. Note that I am not advising you or anybody else to do this out of any ulterior motive! I just think it will be useful for your future encounters with people of faith.

I might also suggest the book “Sensual Orthodoxy” for the same reason. Apologies to our resident swinger pushharder but it is not sensual at all in the way he might want unfortunately hahaha. It’s only like 100 pages or something, so for all intents you could cover it in an afternoon and be no worse for the wear. I don’t think it is as insightful as “Good and Beautiful God” or as…I dunno… accessible maybe? In the sense that I think G/B seems to concentrate solely on the question of how people feel about the christian God. But sort of the same vein. [/quote]

I think I already understand where Mr. Chen and Tirib are coming from. They’re convinced that god is the creator of all things and therefore human understandings of “right and wrong” have no bearing on “god”. They also believe that god may do whatever he wants to us, our families, and our loved ones since he created us and therefore owns us. They believe that we should be god’s happy and obedient little slave, and dare not use our capacity for reason to question the BS that’s right in front of us.

Yes, I smell what they’re cooking, I just aint about to eat it.

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Look man, my viewpoint is not the result of a thought process. The thought process itself is the result of being regenerated into new life in Christ. I would never in one trillion years WANT to believe anything I do on my own. Here you go again. PHD’s do NOT ipso facto make for sound biblical interpretation. I couldn’t care less. You can bring em here if ya want. I personally know barely educated former junkies (one was a hopeless needle freak smack addict) who have been delivered from that bondage by the “good and beautiful God”’ who I go to for guidance and accountability because they are loooong in the Lord, older than me and full of the Holy Spirit and the Word of the Lord. I’ll trust them over your bookworms any day. You don’t get that in a classroom.

In fact most alleged Christian institutes of higher learning are where the Debbie Blue’s of the world are born. You really don’t understand that salvation in Christ is not an intellectual exercise. It is a supernatural resurrection. Like Chen said. God is moving mightily among the meek and humble and abandoning the PHD ridden western world.

Oh I have no doubt that I have not gotten every single thing right. Nobody will in this life. There are some relatively peripheral ares of doctrine I haven’t even settled yet. However, I have everything right that really matters most. There are things you WILL believe if you are a truly redeemed Christian and things that you WILL NOT.

Try to get this. I love to laugh and make others laugh. I try to be humorous here all the time. You’ve seen. I also yawn (wiiiide) at blasphemous heathens. They can curse God, call Jesus profane names and post horrible sacrilegious images. I expect that. I just keep eating my walnuts and read on.

However, when someone claiming His name ties my precious beloved master and savior to filth, damnable heresy and blasphemy my blood boils. I had to get up and walk around listening that woman reproach and dishonor my Jesus by warping His Word into barely recognizable idolatry and calling it a “sermon”.

I have no use for Tolkien. Lewis pushed it, but I believe he was a Christian and had some good writings. Also the 39 article of Anglicanism, or the old Church of England, are rock solid though just like over here, all those reverent and godly confessions are pushed aside for all these “new viewpoints”.

There will NEVER EVER be anything new from God before the end of this world. If it’s new, it’s wrong. Period.

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[quote]bigflamer wrote:<<< and dare not use our capacity for reason to question the BS that’s right in front of us. >>>[/quote]What’s right in front of you, everywhere and in everything, but especially your mirror, is inescapable evidence of not just any God. But the God I am here telling you about. Your dead blindness is the problem. Not His comprehensive and universal revelation.
God is none of the things you say and neither do those passages affirm such.
How many did you look up in the Gill link I sent you?

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[quote]bigflamer wrote:

[quote]Aragorn wrote:
A note to Quick Ben and a couple others (bigflamer perhaps). You might consider reading the book the Good and Beautiful God. I say that because it may aid you in understanding how in the world people like Tirib and Chen can possibly feel as they do about the goodness of God. Sort of a “sociology in action” thing. The book isn’t a proselytizing nightmare, although unfortunately for you it will not address the intellectual argument/debate/train wreck/pissing contest that you find so stimulating (and myself as well). So I recommend it on both those accounts.

I would suggest reading it with your cynicism off. I have a rather overactive cynicism button myself, but I think you’ll understand more about how many Christians like Tirib feel about God if you just read it like a book and think about it rather than going all Hitchens on it from the word “go” :P. I mean, come on, you already know you’re going to disagree with about everything in there from the start, so just read it to get an idea about how they feel. It’s an extremely easy read and short so I don’t think it should cause too much trouble. Note that I am not advising you or anybody else to do this out of any ulterior motive! I just think it will be useful for your future encounters with people of faith.

I might also suggest the book “Sensual Orthodoxy” for the same reason. Apologies to our resident swinger pushharder but it is not sensual at all in the way he might want unfortunately hahaha. It’s only like 100 pages or something, so for all intents you could cover it in an afternoon and be no worse for the wear. I don’t think it is as insightful as “Good and Beautiful God” or as…I dunno… accessible maybe? In the sense that I think G/B seems to concentrate solely on the question of how people feel about the christian God. But sort of the same vein. [/quote]

I think I already understand where Mr. Chen and Tirib are coming from. They’re convinced that god is the creator of all things and therefore human understandings of “right and wrong” have no bearing on “god”. They also believe that god may do whatever he wants to us, our families, and our loved ones since he created us and therefore owns us. They believe that we should be god’s happy and obedient little slave, and dare not use our capacity for reason to question the BS that’s right in front of us.

Yes, I smell what they’re cooking, I just aint about to eat it.
[/quote]

Nor was I even remotely suggesting you do that :). I know your position, thats fine man. And I know that you understand exactly where Trib is coming from as well (seeing as you just reposted a summary from your point of view). I was talking about your stated question as to how anybody could love God, thats all. Since from your position it would be unthinkable for someone to actually LOVE that kind of God if they werent also murdering, sadistic assholes (obedience could be arguably understandable if your eternal soul is on the line as collateral). and quite understandably unthinkable. Just tossing out a resource that might give you an idea of how the other side could actually feel that way and be law abiding, ethical human beings.

Sorry if I touched a button, I was just thinking out loud.

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[quote]Aragorn wrote:

[quote]Quick Ben wrote:

[quote]Mr. Chen wrote:

Believe-Repent-Recieve. If you reject it, I’d say you’re the one that’s messed up.

[/quote]

This is just mind boggling. I cannot force myself to believe that Jesus was a God any more than you can force yourself to believe that he was not. What is so hard to understand about that?[/quote]

See, this is what I don’t understand about you–you seem to buy completely into the “environment” argument and say that one cannot possibly change their beliefs, which I don’t agree with and which for all practical purposes seems to be patently false when looking at the myriad conversion/deconversion stories famous and not-so-famous people have had throughout the centuries. (Not just Christianity either, all of it).

But then you say that you’re “searching” as you did earlier in the thread. Well…what on earth for? If you can’t change your beliefs why bother searching? “Searching” implies the possibility of change pretty overtly. Even though I do think that a “non-searching” person should still be relatively exposed and well-versed in religions (understand your opposition’s positions, etc) anyways. As I said before, it is the mark of an intelligent person to be able to seriously consider an idea without accepting it. Or, more succinctly “beware the man of one book”.

I am not of the mind that people can just spontaneously believe something most times, although I will submit that it happens very occasionally, as your story of how it clicked all of a sudden in your head that you just didn’t “buy this shit” explains (unbelief is a belief too, in the strict philosophical sense of the word). I do however think that somebody who engages in serious research into any topic whether philosophy, religion, science, or politics CAN come to believe differently than they did before. Over time. With considerable internal and/or external debate. I do not see how the possibility of that happening is arguable considering the vast numbers of people who switch political positions, or positions in philosophy, or convert or de-convert from religion, or what-have-you. [/quote]

You’re making this way more complicated than it has to be, lol. I’m just saying that there is no way to force it. You can study, yes. You can experience. You can sit on a rock for 50 years like a self inquiring Hindu. You can live as a devout Christian. There is no telling what conclusions/beliefs you may arrive at. BELIEVE AND REPENT as a command is utterly useless. As for conversions, they usually seem to take place when people get married. If you want to marry a devout catholic and you are an agnostic anyway… you see where I’m going with that.

Thanks for the book recommendation btw, I’ll probably read it. If you’re curious about my motivation for being in this thread, I have no problem telling you; it’s easier than having it with my folks, because it’s almost impossible to do this without saying something hurtful. You nutbags are battle hardened debaters, so I don’t think you mind. haha

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[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Look man, my viewpoint is not the result of a thought process. The thought process itself is the result of being regenerated into new life in Christ. I would never in one trillion years WANT to believe anything I do on my own. Here you go again. PHD’s do NOT ipso facto make for sound biblical interpretation. I couldn’t care less. You can bring em here if ya want. I personally know barely educated former junkies (one was a hopeless needle freak smack addict) who have been delivered from that bondage by the “good and beautiful God”’ who I go to for guidance and accountability because they are loooong in the Lord, older than me and full of the Holy Spirit and the Word of the Lord. I’ll trust them over your bookworms any day. You don’t get that in a classroom.

In fact most alleged Christian institutes of higher learning are where the Debbie Blue’s of the world are born. You really don’t understand that salvation in Christ is not an intellectual exercise. It is a supernatural resurrection. Like Chen said. God is moving mightily among the meek and humble and abandoning the PHD ridden western world.

Oh I have no doubt that I have not gotten every single thing right. Nobody will in this life. There are some relatively peripheral ares of doctrine I haven’t even settled yet. However, I have everything right that really matters most. There are things you WILL believe if you are a truly redeemed Christian and things that you WILL NOT.

Try to get this. I love to laugh and make others laugh. I try to be humorous here all the time. You’ve seen. I also yawn (wiiiide) at blasphemous heathens. They can curse God, call Jesus profane names and post horrible sacrilegious images. I expect that. I just keep eating my walnuts and read on.

However, when someone claiming His name ties my precious beloved master and savior to filth, damnable heresy and blasphemy my blood boils. I had to get up and walk around listening that woman reproach and dishonor my Jesus by warping His Word into barely recognizable idolatry and calling it a “sermon”.

I have no use for Tolkien. Lewis pushed it, but I believe he was a Christian and had some good writings. Also the 39 article of Anglicanism, or the old Church of England, are rock solid though just like over here, all those reverent and godly confessions are pushed aside for all these “new viewpoints”.

There will NEVER EVER be anything new from God before the end of this world. If it’s new, it’s wrong. Period.[/quote]

So you are saying that Ph.D’s can’t also be wise born again christians? is that what you’re implying? hey, I also know ex-junkies that turned their lives around, of both the born-again and non-saved variety. And they’ve got some great things to share. But are you really implying that PhD folk can’t also be saved and wise? how do you know whether they are or not? How do you even know if they came from one of those conservative good Christian schools or a liberal and terrible one? You don’t. You can’t. And to summarily dismiss the experience of people who have spent their lives in such a way is sort of the height of pretentiousness. I might disagree with a lot of things–or everything–that Bertrand Russell said about theism, or Isaac Newton about time, but i’m not going to summarily dismiss everybody with a philosophy or physics doctorate because those people said things I believe are wrong. Experience and study deserve consideration even if it’s only todetermine that you think its bollocks, if only to shore up your current position with better defense. And it’s the height of arrogance to dismiss everybody in a given field because some of them say things you firmly believe are false or even evil. Especially when you son’t even lnow where they come from or even WHO THEY ARE.

I don’t want to argue with you. I am sorry you were offended by Ms. Blue. I dont know her, I don’t know anything ahe has done except for the one book I read. I never even said I believed it–i said it was an interesting read. “It’s the mark of an educated man to be able to entertain an idea without accepting or believing it”. I’ve never looked at anything she’s done or said aside from that book. And I certainly never claimed its validity as theology or history. I simply asked if it was too far fetched to consider the idea that you don’t have as firm a grasp on the exact biblicality of everything that other people say because you seem to be 100% sure about everything, all the time, every time. I find that hard to believe.

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He ‘critiques Mother Teresa?’ Must be some really GOOD dirt! GOL

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[quote]Quick Ben wrote:

[quote]Aragorn wrote:

[quote]Quick Ben wrote:

[quote]Mr. Chen wrote:

Believe-Repent-Recieve. If you reject it, I’d say you’re the one that’s messed up.

[/quote]

This is just mind boggling. I cannot force myself to believe that Jesus was a God any more than you can force yourself to believe that he was not. What is so hard to understand about that?[/quote]

See, this is what I don’t understand about you–you seem to buy completely into the “environment” argument and say that one cannot possibly change their beliefs, which I don’t agree with and which for all practical purposes seems to be patently false when looking at the myriad conversion/deconversion stories famous and not-so-famous people have had throughout the centuries. (Not just Christianity either, all of it).

But then you say that you’re “searching” as you did earlier in the thread. Well…what on earth for? If you can’t change your beliefs why bother searching? “Searching” implies the possibility of change pretty overtly. Even though I do think that a “non-searching” person should still be relatively exposed and well-versed in religions (understand your opposition’s positions, etc) anyways. As I said before, it is the mark of an intelligent person to be able to seriously consider an idea without accepting it. Or, more succinctly “beware the man of one book”.

I am not of the mind that people can just spontaneously believe something most times, although I will submit that it happens very occasionally, as your story of how it clicked all of a sudden in your head that you just didn’t “buy this shit” explains (unbelief is a belief too, in the strict philosophical sense of the word). I do however think that somebody who engages in serious research into any topic whether philosophy, religion, science, or politics CAN come to believe differently than they did before. Over time. With considerable internal and/or external debate. I do not see how the possibility of that happening is arguable considering the vast numbers of people who switch political positions, or positions in philosophy, or convert or de-convert from religion, or what-have-you. [/quote]

You’re making this way more complicated than it has to be, lol. I’m just saying that there is no way to force it. You can study, yes. You can experience. You can sit on a rock for 50 years like a self inquiring Hindu. You can live as a devout Christian. There is no telling what conclusions/beliefs you may arrive at. BELIEVE AND REPENT as a command is utterly useless. As for conversions, they usually seem to take place when people get married. If you want to marry a devout catholic and you are an agnostic anyway… you see where I’m going with that.

Thanks for the book recommendation btw, I’ll probably read it. If you’re curious about my motivation for being in this thread, I have no problem telling you; it’s easier than having it with my folks, because it’s almost impossible to do this without saying something hurtful. You nutbags are battle hardened debaters, so I don’t think you mind. haha

[/quote]
Well firstly, please don’t call me a nutbag. i’ve tried throughout this thread to keep my questions and arguments purely neutral in regards to theology and theism/atheism, and simply approach the questions of how you believe or change beliefs. Keep in mind I have repeatedly said this is a global argument, not confined to theism/atheism, AND have tried to make it clear that this is a two way street with people being dissuaded of theism as well as persuaded of it. And made pains to make note that this change applies to both religious and every day beliefs.

Second, glad you’ll read the books. Despite what Tirib says, I am not suggesting them for their theological positions or anything else. Just the psychology (once again for Tirib, NOT saying that as a negative or an abnormal/pathological sense, because I don’t think there is anytjong pathological about believing in God) or “emotive” perspective.

And yeah, I agree, a forced conversion is no conversion at all lol.

Lastly, i’m sorry you can’t have these sorts of discussions with your parents or anybody you know, I enjoy a good solid discussion and am fortunate to have friends from all walks of life that do as well. It kicks mucho ass :slight_smile:

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[quote]Aragorn wrote:

And yeah, I agree, a forced conversion is no conversion at all lol.

[/quote]

Then you agreed with me all along that one cannot choose what to believe.

Thanks for playing :slight_smile:

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[quote]Aragorn wrote:<<< So you are saying that Ph.D’s can’t also be wise born again christians? >>>[/quote]Noooo man I am not saying that. One of my all time heroes of the faith is DR Cornelius Van til. (try this: A Defense of Reformed (biblical) Presuppositional Apologetics by Cornelius VanTil ) The Dutchman who codified the modern school of trinitarian theistic presuppositional epistomology and apologetics out of which emerged what has become known as the transcendental argument for the existence of God. The very one I am incessantly declaring here. One of my absolute favorite living preachers is DR Voddie Bauchum ( What Is The Gospel? | SermonAudio ) A black man (who I’ve met) who walks this earth covered in the full armor of God, a mighty faithful WARRIOR for Jesus and true scholar of the holy scriptures. Not surprisingly he believes just about everything I do. He would probably think me being a bit lenient on “pastor” Blue.

BTW, sermonaudio.com has hundreds of thousands of actual sermons by thousands of preachers from all sorts of orthodox theological backgrounds. I know the criterion they use for allowing somebody’s work to be published there. They’re ALL more or less good. See there. You don’t have to agree with me on everything to be a Christian. It’s not about agreeing with ME at all. There is however a gospel core without which one displays their non Christian status.

There is also a moral core which if one is not seeking God to live by, it is evidence that have not been born again. The first epistle of John is all about this. He says there are children of God and children of the devil and which are which is obvious. No righteousness? No Jesus. (1 John 3:10) This whole I’m ok you’re ok “don’t judge” thing is a modern perversion. We are commanded TO judge those inside the church claiming to be Christ’s (1st Corinthians 5).

I don’t know who the elect are and I certainly cannot pass judgement on somebody’s final destiny. I can see fruit though and easily determine the credibility of somebody’s present testimony. I see it all the time here. Even very recently. Somebody posts behind me their approval of some long post of mine on Jesus, the gospel and or morality. I dip into their posting history and there they are with the filthy language trading porn sites. With another guy who was amenning my militant gospel posts last year. [quote]Aragorn wrote:<<< How do you even know if they came from one of those conservative good Christian schools or a liberal and terrible one? >>>[/quote]Who cares. That’s not the point. The point is what they SAY. Jesus said that “by their fruit you shall know them for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth SPEAKS”. You came at me with some guys with letters after their name who disagree with me as if that somehow qualified them as reliable sources of biblical truth. In the vast majority of cases today it’s just the opposite. What you see me declaring here has been believed by the church universal since ancient times. If they disagree with that they are heretics with no testimony.

See Paul told the church at Corinth that he feared that lest as the serpent deceived Eve by his cunnning that their minds would be led astray from the SIMPLICITY AND PURITY of devotion to Christ. (2nd Corinthians 2:13). I’ll bet a million that Debbie Blue and this other guy, if cornered, believe in neither the serpent nor Eve. The serpent wins and here you are acting as if these are the insightful people who should explain the “psychology” of that very “simplicity and purity” as declared by Mr. Chen and myself. Go ahead. That’s your right, but you do not get it at all.

The life and death gospel IS simple and pure. Everybody’s born dead and lost. Everybody. God born man in the person of Jesus of Nazareth has provided THE one and only solution that there will EVER EVER be. Those who entrust their lives to Him will live forever in the family of God Himself. Those who do not, whether they be in the choir at my church or the bush of sub Saharan Africa, will remain in their state of perdition for all eternity. None of this is intelligible without a literal first man who plunged us into sin and death. Jesus Himself said God created them male and female “IN THE BEGINNING”. Not after zillions of years of evolution. Either He’s lyin or those who deny that are. [quote]Aragorn wrote:<<< Experience and study deserve consideration even if it’s only to determine that you think its bollocks, if only to shore up your current position with better defense. >>>[/quote] Did you not see that I said I have read more abominable heresy than everybody else here combined. It’s on this page. [quote]Aragorn wrote:<<< And it’s the height of arrogance to dismiss everybody in a given field because some of them say things you firmly believe are false or even evil. >>>[/quote]I did not say “field”. I said denomination. And yes I can. When a given organization is all about destroying the authority of the Word of God and the truth of the gospel of Jesus Christ, I declare anybody who voluntarily associates themselves with it to be destroyers of the authority of the Word of God and the truth of the gospel of Jesus Christ. [quote]Aragorn wrote:<<< Especially when you don’t even know where they come from or even WHO THEY ARE. >>>[/quote] Oh, but I do. They tell me loud and clear by their loyalties and associations who and what they are. Just like I do. [quote]Aragorn wrote:<<< I simply asked if it was too far fetched to consider the idea that you don’t have as firm a grasp on the exact biblicality of everything that other people say because you seem to be 100% sure about everything, all the time, every time. I find that hard to believe.[/quote] I AM absolutely 100% sure and certain about everything I say all the time, every time unless otherwise noted. This is called conviction. I am NOT open minded, like Satan would love for me to be. The objections people throw at me bounce off like cottonballs off a Sherman tank. As I say. Everywhere it matters most? My concrete hardened decades ago. I have not heard a new argument for 20 years. Ohhh how offensive that is huh? This is the 21st century. Nobody can be that certain right? Unless of course they’re pushing junk science in defense of the utterly demonic doctrine of macro evolution. That we’re certain about.

I almost forgot. My point about street people without formal education was simply to highlight the fact that the Christ glorifying handling of the Word of God and the wisdom it produces is the work of the Holy Spirit. Not the result of education though education can certainly be used in a Christ glorifying manner. The only thing that matters to God or Satan is whether someone is born again. The devil keeps his champions of wickedness clean, sober, healthy and happy. It is the bonus of all bonuses, the biggest gun of all if he can get them to claim Christ too. They’re much more efficient soldiers that way. A false Christian talkin about Jesus is a million times more useful to Satan than Christopher Hitchens.

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Dinosaur.

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[quote]Quick Ben wrote:
Dinosaur.[/quote]

Indeed.

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“The only thing that matters to God or Satan is whether someone is born again.” check

The only thing that matters to Tiribulus is whether someone ascribes to his exact brand of Christianity in order to get it “right”

I have been born again so since you’ve pointed out that that is the only thing that matters to God I think we can just agree to disagree on how the word is delivered and both enjoy the afterlife ;]

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Big lizards. Died largely in the flood and yes walked the earth with man which there is plenty of evidence for in the preponderance of the fossil record and elsewhere. No, I will not get into detail because it’s not my strength and no amount of evidence will matter anyway. Brother Joab would probably be much better here. Or maybe Mr. Chen. I don’t know.

Evidence cannot even be meaningfully discussed until epistemology is settled in the first place. Yours is that my God cannot exist.(your “objective” analysis is already a denial). Mine is that He alone is existence itself. We’ll get nowhere. I am also not restarting that discussion, which is all over these forums, here. I’ll point you to one where you can read for an hour and get caught up if you care, but you don’t which is fine.

How’s that study of your passages in Gill’s exposition comin there Sparky? I know you must be hard at work searching for accurate information on God’s judgement and sovereign prerogative in the OT right? I mean you just wanna know the truth don’t ya? I have to admit that it does sometimes get wearisome going over the same stuff over and over and over with people who think they’re putting a stake through your heart with canned warmed over arguments that have been around forever.

I pointed you to where answers can be found. God does not condone any thing He declares to be sin, but He sure does use it. Always has. Always will. Abortion is an abomination in His sight and yet he uses it to both spare those people future suffering AND to keep the pagan population down as the heathen kill themselves off. He made EXTENSIVE use of sin and corruption to bring horrific judgement on both Israel and the nations. What you call rape is humanitarian indeed or else there could never have been war then. What do we do with the women? In Israel’s case God commanded that they take them as wives, give them children and support them. He not did say to drag them into the tumbleweed, rape them and kill them like the pagans often did.

You started by strongly implying that Christianity has a history of child sacrifice as part of it’s practice. You have been all over the place and have inadvertently proven my case for me. No such thing has ever been.

198

You’d think they would be mentioned in the Bible at some point…

199

Show of hands:

who here believes the earth is 6000 years old and that the first man was created in the first week of existence? If you’re a Christian and DON’T believe any of those things, how do you make that fit with the bible? Even if you take Genesis as allegory, it seems like quite a stretch.

Just curious.

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[quote]Quick Ben wrote:<<< You’d think they would be mentioned in the Bible at some point…[/quote]They probably are though being quite common then they wouldn’t exactly be singled out for reporting. I am only one guy folks. I have my life and tons of other stuff here. Squatting Bear gets priority, but not just him. I also have PM’s goin you have no idea about. They’re all important to me including you guys. Yes, you are important to me, I can only do so much though. The web is world wide. Please look around. If you call that dodging I cannot help that.