Christian Commits Mass Murder at Ft. Hood

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
61

I’m going to be as clear as I can:

The good and bad muslims are so entwined that they are inseparable. The ideas and concepts of the religion make it so. You also can NEVER stop Islam from attempting, via violence or otherwise, to control and dominate the world. It is a fundamental belief and teaching of Islam. FUNDAMENTAL.

Right now in mosques and madrasas around the world, and yes in the America as well, an Imam is sitting down and preaching intolerance, hate, violence and jihad to his flock. U.S. Foreign policy has nothing to do with it.

At its heart Islam is engaged in a war of culture with the entire world. We can stand up and resist or we will have sharia law.

62

Lixy, serious and sincere question for you:

I will grant that at least in many countries and on average worldwide, most Muslims are peaceful individuals that don’t want to kill others for any reason, including in the name of their religion, and don’t approve of others doing so. I think anyone that does not grant this is being unreasonable.

And I’ll grant that in countries such as the United States and I suppose Sweden, an individual peaceful Muslim or a community of such has little that they can do when they know of extremist Muslims, except say give tips to the FBI or other law-enforcement equivalent. (What percentage actually take a positive step such as that towards reducing Muslim terrorism, I have no idea. Some do however.) Direct action would be considered vigilantism, at least in the US.

My question relates to all those countries that are Muslim controlled.

How is it that where Muslims do have the control of a country, and we would hope that the majority are against terrorism, that it is not Muslims on the frontline against the extremists?

Why aren’t the extremists within countries such as Syria and Saudi Arabia being cracked down on by these countries? HARD?

If they really are violating the Koran and these countries are under Islamic law, should they not be?

It cannot be out of freedom of speech, as there is none. Say something insulting about the king or some other such thing and be found out, and you’re lucky if jail is all you get.

So how is it that the extremist murderers in the name of Islam are not being cracked down by these Muslim-controlled societies?

If it is the case that most Muslims are moderate and against terrorism, but the fact is that even when in control their societies really don’t lift a finger or even offer aid and comfort, what does this say?

Seriously, what do you think it says? What conclusion should the non-Muslim draw, and why?

63

Lixy is right about ONE thing. We’re bashing his religion. Now, I would bash Buddhism if it was as fucked up as Islam. I would start lots of threads showing how Buddhists want to wipe out the societies they live in, IF I could find any shred of evidence to go along with it.

The LEAST we can do to a moronic cult (and its followers) is to bash it.

64

http://www.abcactionnews.com/news/local/story/Several-shot-at-Orlando-office-building/of-7oQp9T0-UcjSmrgBWsA.cspx

And yes, I am opposed to radical Islam and its violence.

65

[quote]malty_goodness wrote:

i understand your point of view in regards to why you’d think an ‘authentic’ muslim cannot coexist with western cultures. but i believe this is more of a cultural thing rather than religion. compare a muslim from turkey, the middle east, india and southeast asia and you’d see the differences in practice, which is all due to the mix of culture with religion. it is more than possible to lead a straight and pious islamic life in america with no problems. i mean muslims are people too. we have normal lives to lead like everyone else. like getting the kids to school on time.[/quote]

Observing the 5 pillars will not get you into Islamic heaven. Allah may or may not choose to forgive your past sins whether or not you observe the 5 pillars. The only sure-fire way to get into heaven in the Islamic religion is dying a martyr’s death.

[quote]Volume 4, Book 52, Number 44:

Narrated Abu Huraira:

A man came to Allah's Apostle and said, [b]"Instruct me as to such a deed as equals Jihad (in reward)." He replied, "I do not find such a deed."[/b] Then he added, "Can you, while the Muslim fighter is in the battle-field, enter your mosque to perform prayers without cease and fast and never break your fast?" The man said, "But who can do that?" Abu- Huraira added, "The Mujahid (i.e. Muslim fighter) is rewarded even for the footsteps of his horse while it wanders bout (for grazing) tied in a long rope." [/quote]

[quote]Volume 4, Book 52, Number 46:

Narrated Abu Huraira:

I heard Allah's Apostle saying, "The example of a Mujahid in Allah's Cause-- and Allah knows better who really strives in His Cause----is like a person who fasts and prays continuously. [b]Allah guarantees that He will admit the Mujahid in His Cause into Paradise if he is killed,[/b] otherwise He will return him to his home safely with rewards and war booty." [/quote]
66

Non Jihadist western friendly Islam is like black liberation theology. Both are modern bastardizations of historical religions.

Islam, as founded and codified by those closest to it’s origins is utterly incompatible with western sensibilities.

Just like hearing Nancy Pelosi, Ted Kennedy and Barack Obama claim they are Catholic/Christian. People can say and believe whatever they want and the United States has made a mission out of redefining everything including herself as whatever is most cool and groovy at the moment, but Islam and Christianity are claims of revelation by one truly existing and almighty immutable God himself and are hence not subject to revision and or adaptation to human fiat and caprice.

Bin Laden practices historic Islam. Non jihadists do not.

The Pope practices historic Catholicism. Nancy Pelosi and Ted Kenndy do not.

There are representatives of historic Christianity all over the world. Jeremiah Wright and his 60’s marxism wrapped in biblical terminology is not one of them.

67

[quote]PRCalDude wrote:
Bill Roberts wrote:
At this point there is no knowing his motivation. He may have been a crazy person, period, acting alone for whatever motivation from his personal life, whether deriving from his recent poor performance review or who knows what. Undoubtedly there is going to be thorough investigation into his contacts.

I’m putting my money on Sudden Jihad Syndrome. [/quote]

LOL!

68

[quote]Gregus wrote:
LOL! I have never met a more Naive people then Americans. Your Naivenes and childish outlook on life will cause and allow more and more crap like this to happen. And each time you will sit there and look for reasons that are anything other then just a simple fact that people CAN hate you just because, just because you’re an infidel. lol. Wake up.

[/quote]

Yes, that was my point about Occam’s butterknife.

Americans are really a bunch of credulous fools. It’s like CAIR director Nihad Awad said, “Address people according to their minds. When I speak with the American, I speak with someone who doesn’t know anything.”

69

[quote]lixy wrote:
The motive doesn’t matter now.

Even if it turns out to be completely unrelated to the guy’s faith, people will claim that the media are in cahoots with whatever new world order that’s trying to further an Islamist agenda. Others, on the other side, will still claim that he was doing The Work of God™, that this is true Jihad, and treat the man as some sort of hero.

Presumption of innocence for Muslims will slowly fly out the door, triggering a vicious circle where both sides get increasingly radicalized. I wouldn’t be surprised if, in my lifetime, Muslims start changing their names and/or hiding their religion to avoid persecution. [/quote]

lixy,

How do you act like such a whiner and look yourself in the mirror everyday and say, “I’m a man?” I mean, you’re basically sitting here worrying about ‘backlash’ while 12 people have just been murdered by yet another Muslim on a jihad. Doesn’t it ever occur to you we have a legitimate cause for outrage? Shouldn’t we be worried about the next Muslim that comes to the traditional Islamic understanding of Surahs 9:5 and 9:29?

Moreover, why should we worry about Muslims “becoming more radicalized,” whatever that means? You’re saying they’ll start blowing up more buildings and marketplaces and shooting up even more people in accordance with their religion?

They already do that. I bet when they set off a nuke in some American city, you’ll be saying the same things you’re saying right now.

70

Islam is infected with violent heresy. Not all muslims are violent and many do not condone it, but it does not nullify the fact that Islam has many followers who subscribe to the violence and if are to chicken to do it themselves, condone violence when it is done. The is rampant antisemitism with in its rank and file. The call for violence is wide spread…These are the indisputable facts.
I know from muslims that world wide islam is tearing itself apart because of internal strife, I think it is long over due to put a stop to the violence and actually behave in the peaceful manner that they proclaim to believe in. Which, consequently means to do away with hatred of the Jews as well.

These people have to clean their own houses. As long as they tolerate the violence with in their ranks, the violence will continue. I do not know what its going to take to convince them. All I know is I want to live in peace with them and not be afraid that one day their going to kill me just cause I am not muslim or what ever the reasoning for the violence. I really don’t care about the motivation anymore.

I am willing to bet my balls this guy killed these people because of his particular subscription to islam. Whether its right or wrong, I don’t know. If this is part of islam, I don’t know. I know they need to knock this shit off, that’s what I do know. I am pretty sure random killing is a sin even in islam, at least I hope it is.

71

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
How is it that where Muslims do have the control of a country, and we would hope that the majority are against terrorism, that it is not Muslims on the frontline against the extremists? [/quote]

I don’t know what countries you have in mind, but I would wager that they have more pressing issues.

In Saudi Arabia, that would make the Wahabi ruling class loose whatever legitimacy they have left. Saudi Arabia, by and large, is the place where most of the extremism we have and hate today came from.

In Syria, I believe they are cracking down HARD. Torture is common place, and people disappearing isn’t exceptional.

Cite one country that doesn’t crack down on people who kill other people.

Now you’re confusing me. What does freedom of speech have to do with killing people?

Where? Seriously.

[quote]If it is the case that most Muslims are moderate and against terrorism, but the fact is that even when in control their societies really don’t lift a finger or even offer aid and comfort, what does this say?

Seriously, what do you think it says? What conclusion should the non-Muslim draw, and why? [/quote]

I’m afraid I don’t understand your question at all. But it’s a horrible idea to draw conclusions based on generalizations. Majority-Muslim countries cannot be put in the same basket, and then used to draw a conclusion.

Please try to be more specific.

72

[quote]pat wrote:
Islam is infected with violent heresy. Not all muslims are violent and many do not condone it, but it does not nullify the fact that Islam has many followers who subscribe to the violence and if are to chicken to do it themselves, condone violence when it is done. The is rampant antisemitism with in its rank and file. The call for violence is wide spread…These are the indisputable facts.
I know from muslims that world wide islam is tearing itself apart because of internal strife, I think it is long over due to put a stop to the violence and actually behave in the peaceful manner that they proclaim to believe in. Which, consequently means to do away with hatred of the Jews as well.

These people have to clean their own houses. As long as they tolerate the violence with in their ranks, the violence will continue. I do not know what its going to take to convince them. All I know is I want to live in peace with them and not be afraid that one day their going to kill me just cause I am not muslim or what ever the reasoning for the violence. I really don’t care about the motivation anymore.

I am willing to bet my balls this guy killed these people because of his particular subscription to islam. Whether its right or wrong, I don’t know. If this is part of islam, I don’t know. I know they need to knock this shit off, that’s what I do know. I am pretty sure random killing is a sin even in islam, at least I hope it is.[/quote]

How can you really believe this stuff?

73

[quote]Cite one country that doesn’t crack down on people who kill other people.
[/quote]

Easy. It depends on if the person killed is kuffar or not. Pakistan won’t execute you if you kill a Christian. Neither would Egypt. Copts get killed there all the time and the government does nothing. Nor Iran. I’m pretty sure Saudi Arabia wouldn’t either, but there are precious few kuffar there to kill except for the foreign workers (slaves) brought in.

It isn’t illegal to kill kuffar under Islamic law.

74

What?! No cheering for a soldier murdering other people…oh wait, he wasn’t in Iraq or Afghanistan and he was…gasp! A MUSLIM!!!

75

Cite one country that doesn’t crack down on people who kill other people.

Cite my islamic nation that is at peace…with itself.

76

Bill, lixy,

One more data point on the guy’s motive. He yelled, “Allah Akbar!” before opening fire. Now lixy could still possibly attribute the shooting to some other motive, being an Islamic liar. What do you think, Bill?
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2009/11/a-person-behind-counter-stood-up-and-he-said-allah-akbar-and-just-opened-up-on-everybody.html

77

Maybe he burnt out from treating fellow soldiers who murdered fellow Muslims and he just lost it…?

The longer this pointless war lasts the more this is going to happen. Soldiers murder and that is all they are meant to do. No big surprise here, really.

78

[quote]pat wrote:
These people have to clean their own houses. [/quote]

The man is born in the US.

79

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Maybe he burnt out from treating fellow soldiers who murdered fellow Muslims and he just lost it…?

The longer this pointless war lasts the more this is going to happen. Soldiers murder and that is all they are meant to do. No big surprise here, really.[/quote]

Yeah, uh, you’re an imbecile.

80

[quote]PRCalDude wrote:
Bill, lixy,

One more data point on the guy’s motive. He yelled, “Allah Akbar!” before opening fire. Now lixy could still possibly attribute the shooting to some other motive, being an Islamic liar. What do you think, Bill?
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2009/11/a-person-behind-counter-stood-up-and-he-said-allah-akbar-and-just-opened-up-on-everybody.html
[/quote]

If that is correct then indeed that is evidence that Islam influenced his actions.

Major news organizations are reporting that some witnesses are saying this.

Of course, previously witnesses had said there were multiple shooters and it was reported Hasan was dead. At the 24 hour point, it’s a congealing fog rather than a clean set of certain facts.

I would be interested to know what sect of Islam his mosque is.

On getting into that area:

You know, if there were, say, a Christian sect that preached from the pulpit that the only sure way to Heaven was to kill, say, blacks, I think we can all be sure that the FBI would have a plant or two in just about every such church and pretty much everyone, whether belonging to the “left” or the “right” would applaud.

But somehow the idea that every mosque that preaches that the only sure way to Heaven is jihad should have an FBI agent in it is considered “divisive,” “intolerant,” and “discriminatory.”

Lixy, do you think the first sort of church should be subject to extensive investigation by undercover agents?

How about the mosque of the type described?