Choke Hold Death in NYC and the Nanny State

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
301

[quote]NickViar wrote:

[quote]batman730 wrote:
To expand, Nick: I am a middle class professional. I pay taxes. I live in an area that generates a somewhat disproportionate number of calls for service.[/quote]
-I honestly can’t think of a middle class neighborhood that generates a disproportionate number of calls for service.

-Did you happen to elect to live in this neighborhood, believing that property values would go up and you could make a nice profit? [/quote]

Nope. A 1000sq/ft condo in my area is roughly $250 000. A small single family home in an iffy neighbourhood is $4-500 000. A small-medium single family home in a good neighbourhood is $750-800 000.

Our place is in an older lower/working class neighbourhood. Property values are still $2-400k roughly. I got in at around $200k cause it’s as much as I could afford, not hoping speculating against future values. I am not wealthy, but neither am I a drain on the system who deserves to raise a family in the third world by virtue of my address.

302

I know I have not said there is no need for police. I don’t think the police should ignore high crime areas (even if the majority of those residents are not tax payers). What I am advocating is that there is more ACCOUNTABILITY for the police.

For example, when there is a no knock raid on a low level offender and a flash bang grenade burns a baby’s face off, SOMEONE SHOULD GO TO JAIL. If I invaded someone’s home and disfigured an infant, I would certainly go to jail. WHY WAS NO ONE CHARGED? According to one of the articles I read, the city won’t even pay the child’s medical bills… That is unacceptable.

When a police officer SHOOTS an unarmed person who is NOT in the process of attacking them, that officer should be CHARGED.

If someone VIDEO TAPES an officer punching someone or beating them or tazering them unnecessarily, that officer should be CHARGED.

Do I need to elaborate further? I think we get the idea. And I’m not saying they should go to JAIL. I’m saying that if someone is harmed by the police, that officer needs to defend himself IN COURT for his actions and if found guilty, he should face the penalty of his crime. JUST LIKE THE REST OF US.

I think we can all agree that the officer who killed Mr. Garner should have at least been CHARGED with SOMETHING… If he’s innocent, then that would have come out in an OPEN TRIAL. Not a closed door bullshit hearing.

I also believe that the number of laws that lead to police confrontation need to be examined. Along with the ridiculous traffic practices of some jurisdictions. I know that here in Fairfax county Virginia where I currently live, the police are a revenue generating machine. That’s not protecting or serving anyone, it’s essentially another TAX in disguise. Since the Fairfax county PD doesn’t work for the IRS, I’d just assume them get out of the taxing me to live here business.

Don’t get me started on the criminal “justice” system…

303

[quote]NickViar wrote:

[quote]Will207 wrote:

[quote]batman730 wrote:

[quote]Brett620 wrote:
This is what I fear: a division created between the police and certain communities where the police start to take a “hands off” approach. And when they are called, the calls get slow-walked, diverted, held or are given poor service due to the mutual distrust. I’ve already heard talks about this in certain circles.

If we are so evil, fuck it. Police yourselfs. [/quote]

This is a legitimate fear. Can you imagine what NYC would look like after say 30 days if the patrol division of NYPD simply stopped going to calls? Mad Max anyone…[/quote]

Toronto Police has initiated policy that makes patrol officers issue what is essentially a transaction receipt if the police ask a person for ID. The result? Street Check submissions have dropped by 95%. The cops aren’t talking to people unless a crime is blatantly being committed. No contact, no complaint. I am curious to see how this will influence crime in the city. [/quote]

Bravo, Toronto. I bet it’s nice for the sane Toronto officers to not have to hear the dumbasses on the radio, running the name of every person they see…ALL NIGHT LONG.[/quote]

I’ve never heard that complaint before… You don’t even have use the radio to run names if you have a computer in your car.

304

AC,

Quick reply to your post. Busy day.

I wasn’t complaining about being a professional and accountable for my actions. I was explaining some of the checks and balances in place to ensure my conduct and practices are in line with law and policy.

As for the background checks, I want to emphasize that these systems ARE NOT FOR PERSONAL USE. Queries in the system MUST be relevant to the officer’s duties. Audits are conducted regularly and infractions are treated very seriously. Sometimes people lost access to the system. When that happens, you’re fucked because you’re no longer a very useful employee. Use of the system for non-police matters is strictly forbidden.

305

[quote]batman730 wrote:
Nope. A 1000sq/ft condo in my area is roughly $250 000. A small single family home in an iffy neighbourhood is $4-500 000. A small-medium single family home in a good neighbourhood is $750-800 000.

Our place is in an older lower/working class neighbourhood. Property values are still $2-400k roughly. I got in at around $200k cause it’s as much as I could afford, not hoping speculating against future values. I am not wealthy, but neither am I a drain on the system who deserves to raise a family in the third world by virtue of my address.[/quote]

How are welfare recipients living in an area with property values from $2-400k? Honestly, from the sounds of it, your idea of “disproportionate number of calls for service” may be entirely different than mine. I work in a place that is heavily populated by people whose families likely haven’t paid taxes, or even worked, for generations. Here, police calls from people that own ANYTHING are rare(other than for car crashes).

306

[quote]Will207 wrote:
I’ve never heard that complaint before… You don’t even have use the radio to run names if you have a computer in your car. [/quote]

I have, and I understand that you don’t have to use the radio…a lot of police officers aren’t too bright.

307

[quote]NickViar wrote:

[quote]batman730 wrote:
Nope. A 1000sq/ft condo in my area is roughly $250 000. A small single family home in an iffy neighbourhood is $4-500 000. A small-medium single family home in a good neighbourhood is $750-800 000.

Our place is in an older lower/working class neighbourhood. Property values are still $2-400k roughly. I got in at around $200k cause it’s as much as I could afford, not hoping speculating against future values. I am not wealthy, but neither am I a drain on the system who deserves to raise a family in the third world by virtue of my address.[/quote]

How are welfare recipients living in an area with property values from $2-400k? Honestly, from the sounds of it, your idea of “disproportionate number of calls for service” may be entirely different than mine. I work in a place that is heavily populated by people whose families likely haven’t paid taxes, or even worked, for generations. Here, police calls from people that own ANYTHING are rare(other than for car crashes).[/quote]

Well, in all honesty the economic situation in my area is something of an anomaly and is definitely not representative of the situation in a larger US city. It was ill conceived to use my circumstances as an example.

Property values throughout my area skyrocketed in recent years due to the desireability of the area and a large influx of money from people moving from elsewhere. This affected the affluent areas as well as the more working class neighbourhoods. Suddenly any hovel was worth at least 300k for the land alone. Tiny pockets of “ghetto” hold out here and there in neighbourhoods where doctors and lawyers are stretched to afford.

Welfare recipients certainly aren’t buying 2-400k homes, but they are still renting them from back when the were 1-200k homes or living in gov’t subsidized co-ops and group homes right across the street. Run down apartment towers catering largely to people on social assistance are cheek by jowl with upscale boutique condo developments. It’s all a bit odd.

Businesses and well off individual taxpayers heavily subsidize policing for the rougher neighbourhoods as the rougher neighbourhoods are 3-400 yards away in many cases. My idea of a disproportionate number of calls is relative to the rest of the area served by my local PD. Drug houses get taken down fairly regularly and there is some violent crime, but all in all it’s Mayberry compared to a bad area in the US.

308

[quote]angry chicken wrote:
I know I have not said there is no need for police. I don’t think the police should ignore high crime areas (even if the majority of those residents are not tax payers). What I am advocating is that there is more ACCOUNTABILITY for the police.

For example, when there is a no knock raid on a low level offender and a flash bang grenade burns a baby’s face off, SOMEONE SHOULD GO TO JAIL. If I invaded someone’s home and disfigured an infant, I would certainly go to jail. WHY WAS NO ONE CHARGED? According to one of the articles I read, the city won’t even pay the child’s medical bills… That is unacceptable.

When a police officer SHOOTS an unarmed person who is NOT in the process of attacking them, that officer should be CHARGED.

If someone VIDEO TAPES an officer punching someone or beating them or tazering them unnecessarily, that officer should be CHARGED.

Do I need to elaborate further? I think we get the idea. And I’m not saying they should go to JAIL. I’m saying that if someone is harmed by the police, that officer needs to defend himself IN COURT for his actions and if found guilty, he should face the penalty of his crime. JUST LIKE THE REST OF US.

I think we can all agree that the officer who killed Mr. Garner should have at least been CHARGED with SOMETHING… If he’s innocent, then that would have come out in an OPEN TRIAL. Not a closed door bullshit hearing.

I also believe that the number of laws that lead to police confrontation need to be examined. Along with the ridiculous traffic practices of some jurisdictions. I know that here in Fairfax county Virginia where I currently live, the police are a revenue generating machine. That’s not protecting or serving anyone, it’s essentially another TAX in disguise. Since the Fairfax county PD doesn’t work for the IRS, I’d just assume them get out of the taxing me to live here business.

Don’t get me started on the criminal “justice” system…

[/quote]

The police union would never allow this, even though it makes the most sense. Every body of office is bribed to hell, so unless people start cutting checks nothing will ever change.

309

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

The coroner ruled the cause of death was asphyxiation due in large part to the choke. This isn’t some armchair quarterback diagnosis. It’s the coroners ruling. [/quote]

Only it’s not the coroner’s ruling:

[quote] Breitbart wrote:

Garner did not die of asphyxiation, as the head of the Patrolmenâ??s Benevolent Association noted at the time. The preliminary autopsy showed no damage to Garnerâ??s windpipe or neck bones…

[/quote]

Why do you keep misrepresenting the coroner’s findings? You’re running with the phoney narrative of the left. He wasn’t choked to death. I don’t understand why everyone keeps pretending otherwise. It’s institutionalised racism. A white cop can’t arrest anyone now without having to worry about these civil rights shysters and the AG and the President will throw him to the wolves.[/quote]

Lol, I forgot the semantics police run PWI. Sorry it wasn’t asphixiation (which is what I had read) it was mainly due to compression of the neck coupled with other things.

“On August 1, Garner’s death was found by the New York City Medical Examiner’s Office to be a result of “compression of neck (chokehold), compression of chest and prone positioning during physical restraint by police.”[3] Asthma, heart disease, and obesity were cited as contributing factors.[66] There was no damage to the windpipe or neckbones.[26] On August 1, the medical examiner’s spokesperson, Julie Bolcer, announced that Garner’s death has been ruled a homicide.[67] As of December 3, 2014 the United States Department of Justice launched further investigation towards the death.[68]”

“On Aug. 1, a New York City medical examiner determined that the cause of death in the Garner case was â??homicide,â?? specifically the neck compressions from the Pantaleoâ??s chokehold and â??the compression of [Garnerâ??s] chest and prone positioning during physical restraint by police,â?? according to spokeswoman, Julie Bolcer.”

By all means though, let’s just keep arguing semantics. Not the fact that this was ruled a homicide or anything. That’s not important at all…

310

[quote]angry chicken wrote:
I also believe that the number of laws that lead to police confrontation need to be examined. Along with the ridiculous traffic practices of some jurisdictions. I know that here in Fairfax county Virginia where I currently live, the police are a revenue generating machine. That’s not protecting or serving anyone, it’s essentially another TAX in disguise. Since the Fairfax county PD doesn’t work for the IRS, I’d just assume them get out of the taxing me to live here business.

[/quote]

From PG county, and currently live in DC and commute to Fairfax for work. You are spot on about the cops in Fairfax being a revenue generating machine. When I think of Fairfax, I think of road work, construction, traffic, and speed traps.

I only mention I’m from PG county b/c you mentioned in a prior post you won’t step foot in there anymore. Can’t say I blame you but it’s a big county and it’s not all “the cut”. Lots of woods and government workers (NSA, NASA, Agriculture, and lots more to come). Mom just retired, Dad is trying to sell his land/business. They can’t wait to get out of PG!

And if Fairfax is the land of revenue generating cops, MD is the land of speed cameras. It gets more ridiculous by the year. At least VA hasn’t gotten on the speed camera wagon.

311

[quote]batman730 wrote:

[quote]NickViar wrote:

[quote]batman730 wrote:
To expand, Nick: I am a middle class professional. I pay taxes. I live in an area that generates a somewhat disproportionate number of calls for service.[/quote]
-I honestly can’t think of a middle class neighborhood that generates a disproportionate number of calls for service.

-Did you happen to elect to live in this neighborhood, believing that property values would go up and you could make a nice profit? [/quote]

Nope. A 1000sq/ft condo in my area is roughly $250 000. A small single family home in an iffy neighbourhood is $4-500 000. A small-medium single family home in a good neighbourhood is $750-800 000.

Our place is in an older lower/working class neighbourhood. Property values are still $2-400k roughly. I got in at around $200k cause it’s as much as I could afford, not hoping speculating against future values. I am not wealthy, but neither am I a drain on the system who deserves to raise a family in the third world by virtue of my address.[/quote]

This sounds a lot like DC.

To NickViar - expensive real estate in sketchy hoods is usually just simple gentrification. That’s the case where I live at least. Sure, most people who buy real estate in sketchy hoods are doing so with the idea the neighborhood will improve and property values will rise. That’s not everything though. It’s usually the best you can afford.

If you’re a normal person without a trust fund, you are trying to get the best value in a 'hood that is reasonably live-able. For people who aren’t rich in DC, that means your first house is going to be in a neighborhood that is going through gentrification. It’s the best you can afford b/c the other neighborhoods require $900k for a decent sized town house. Anything cheaper and you’re in the cut and are a mark to be repeatedly robbed and fucked with.

312

[quote]angry chicken wrote:

I don’t know what the numbers are. I don’t have that data. I DO know that for something like 20 years, it was “common knowledge” that Prince Georges county (in Maryland) cops were corrupt and violent. I experienced that first hand. I live in Virginia now, so I don’t really follow local MD politics anymore - the state has just gone too liberal for me, despite the recent election. But for TWENTY years that I lived there and was “aware”, an entire county had a known reputation for corruption and brutality… I don’t know what it’s like now, I won’t set foot in PG county for any reason and I won’t allow my family to go there.

[/quote]

Spot on about PG cops. I was lifting back at my highschool during summer break in college and was talking to an older dude I played football with who had joined the PGPD. He was a total meatstick type and was vocal/proud of the brutality associated with PG cops. Said there was a reason the show COPS wanted to do PG for decades but the Chief would never be dumb enough to allow it. This was like 8 years ago, though.

The really bad parts of PG are all around the southeast DC border. People who were squeezed out of DC b/c of violence or rising property values. I’ve been around these types and it’s no shocker the PGPD has been molded the way it has. Not saying it’s acceptable but it’s reality.

313

Rev. Al Sharpton?s Viagra prescription found in Sandy Rubenstein?s home during probe that cleared famed lawyer of rape accusation: police source.

314

They say satire is dead: Military Pushes For Same Broad Rules Of Engagement As Civilian Police Forces

315

[quote]theuofh wrote:
They say satire is dead: http://www.duffelblog.com/2015/01/police-military/[/quote]

Absolutely remarkable. PC got us by the nuts…