I give up.
[quote]SkyNett wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Anyone that still incorrectly believes, like RJ, that consumption drives the economy must ask the question why China hasn’t decided to start consuming its way to more wealth? After all, they have a much larger population with which to consume the stuff they already produce.
Dude, you are HILARIOUS.
You should take this act on the road…
Definitely - consumption is not what drives an economy…
Oh shit, that was actually hard for me to type with a serious face. I usually think RJ is a bit over the top, but if anyone deserves one of his spectacular verbal beat-downs, it’s you.
Good luck in life - I think you’re going to need it. [/quote]
Well, I can tell you that there are only a few people who post on these forums who are capable of handing out a verbal beat down to me.
RJ is not one of them and can barely complete a sentence without slipping into fits of vulgarity – such is his wit.
If you’d like to try you are welcome. Though, I do not suffer fools gladly.
That said, good luck you you, Mr. SkyNett.
[quote]SkyNett wrote:
BTW - your irrational fear of China reminds me of that South Park episode where Cartman has vicious nightmares about the booming Chinese economy and an inevitable take-over of the U.S.
What’s next - you going to show up at a P.F. Changs with some fake buckteeth and glasses in an attempt to ascertain the invasion plan? ; )[/quote]
???
Uh…follow along please.
[quote]SkyNett wrote:
BTW - your irrational fear of China reminds me of that South Park episode where Cartman has vicious nightmares about the booming Chinese economy and an inevitable take-over of the U.S.
What’s next - you going to show up at a P.F. Changs with some fake buckteeth and glasses in an attempt to ascertain the invasion plan? ; )[/quote]
As long as nobody gets shot in the dick 
Actually, every time he posts he beats you down.
I can see you’re one of those people who feels like he’s the winner as long as he keeps saying so.
Very funny. And no, I wouldn’t bother discussing this with you, but I can see you’re a guy who reads a lot of books - but doesn’t really seem to comprehend what he’s reading.
Good luck with the fools - don’t suffer too much. Oh, and do me a favor - drop me a PM when the Chinese land on American soil - or start asking us to immediately pay back debt - whichever comes first. ; )
[quote]Rocky101 wrote:
As long as nobody gets shot in the dick
[/quote]
Yea - Butters was certainly going nuts with the dick shooting. Not cool! ; )
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Well, I can tell you that there are only a few people who post on these forums who are capable of handing out a verbal beat down to me.
RJ is not one of them and can barely complete a sentence without slipping into fits of vulgarity – such is his wit.
[/quote]
I give you beat downs on a regular basis, dipshit. You have yet to stand up to any of them.
My vocabulary has no bearing whatsoever on your stupidity in general, or you total lack of anything approaching real world common sense.
If that is the windmill you need to slay to feel like you actually possess a set of testicles, knock yourself out.
I think you have done more to make my point about how utterly goat-fucking stupid you are than anything I could have said.
Thanks for playing. Now fuck off.
[quote]rainjack wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
rainjack wrote:
You get more fucking stupid with each post.
Hush, peon.
You first dipshit.
You don’t get it. You never have, and you never will. China needs us. You think they are going to demand payment for their loans. There is no way in hell they would do that, and even if they did, there is no way to force the US to pay up.
The US is, far and away China’s biggest customer, yet you don’t think demand has a fucking thing to do with international trade.
Seriously, you are one stupid fuck. [/quote]
I hope your not like this in ‘real life’.
[quote]Neuromancer wrote:
I agree that the US is not the only market,but it is certainly the biggest one.
[/quote]
Actually the EU overtook USA as China’s largest trading partner already in 2006. This, ofcourse in no way means that USA is not a vital trading partner to China.
[quote]Neuromancer wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
The US is not the only market for Chinese made products. Chinese businesses will sell anywhere they can. That is a fact.
The fundamentals that make the Chinese economy strong compared to the American economy is that the Chinese as a whole have virtually no debt and they produce more than they consume.
Anyone that still incorrectly believes, like RJ, that consumption drives the economy must ask the question why China hasn’t decided to start consuming its way to more wealth? After all, they have a much larger population with which to consume the stuff they already produce.
I agree that the US is not the only market,but it is certainly the biggest one.
Seeing how the current conditions have led to so many factories closing in China,and seeing the discontent of the employees on some segments on tv,how do you think the population would react to wholesale layoffs and unemployment?There would be civil unrest.I think this would make the political rulers there very,very uncomfortable.
This is certainly what would happen if there was a sharp drop off in US demand for their products,in my opinion.
[/quote]
You are aware that they Chinese are a giant market in and off themselves?
If they stop from artificially keeping their currency low and to buy American debt they also have the money to consume their own products.
They simply need to change their production to satisfy Chinese demand.
[quote]SkyNett wrote:
Actually, every time he posts he beats you down.
I can see you’re one of those people who feels like he’s the winner as long as he keeps saying so.
Very funny. And no, I wouldn’t bother discussing this with you, but I can see you’re a guy who reads a lot of books - but doesn’t really seem to comprehend what he’s reading.
Good luck with the fools - don’t suffer too much. Oh, and do me a favor - drop me a PM when the Chinese land on American soil - or start asking us to immediately pay back debt - whichever comes first. ; ) [/quote]
They do not need to ask for their money back because they have a lot of short term bonds.
They only need to refuse to roll over your bonds.
[quote]winkel wrote:
Neuromancer wrote:
I agree that the US is not the only market,but it is certainly the biggest one.
Actually the EU overtook USA as China’s largest trading partner already in 2006. This, ofcourse in no way means that USA is not a vital trading partner to China.
[/quote]
I was not aware of that,thanks.
[quote]orion wrote:
Neuromancer wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
The US is not the only market for Chinese made products. Chinese businesses will sell anywhere they can. That is a fact.
The fundamentals that make the Chinese economy strong compared to the American economy is that the Chinese as a whole have virtually no debt and they produce more than they consume.
Anyone that still incorrectly believes, like RJ, that consumption drives the economy must ask the question why China hasn’t decided to start consuming its way to more wealth? After all, they have a much larger population with which to consume the stuff they already produce.
I agree that the US is not the only market,but it is certainly the biggest one.
Seeing how the current conditions have led to so many factories closing in China,and seeing the discontent of the employees on some segments on tv,how do you think the population would react to wholesale layoffs and unemployment?There would be civil unrest.I think this would make the political rulers there very,very uncomfortable.
This is certainly what would happen if there was a sharp drop off in US demand for their products,in my opinion.
You are aware that they Chinese are a giant market in and off themselves?
If they stop from artificially keeping their currency low and to buy American debt they also have the money to consume their own products.
They simply need to change their production to satisfy Chinese demand.
[/quote]
There is quite a bit of profit differential between chopsticks and LCD TV’s.
[quote]orion wrote:
Neuromancer wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
The US is not the only market for Chinese made products. Chinese businesses will sell anywhere they can. That is a fact.
The fundamentals that make the Chinese economy strong compared to the American economy is that the Chinese as a whole have virtually no debt and they produce more than they consume.
Anyone that still incorrectly believes, like RJ, that consumption drives the economy must ask the question why China hasn’t decided to start consuming its way to more wealth? After all, they have a much larger population with which to consume the stuff they already produce.
I agree that the US is not the only market,but it is certainly the biggest one.
Seeing how the current conditions have led to so many factories closing in China,and seeing the discontent of the employees on some segments on tv,how do you think the population would react to wholesale layoffs and unemployment?There would be civil unrest.I think this would make the political rulers there very,very uncomfortable.
This is certainly what would happen if there was a sharp drop off in US demand for their products,in my opinion.
You are aware that they Chinese are a giant market in and off themselves?
If they stop from artificially keeping their currency low and to buy American debt they also have the money to consume their own products.
They simply need to change their production to satisfy Chinese demand.
[/quote]
Yes,I am aware of that.
And I agree with you in theory.
But don’t you think that the two conditions you mention are rather large ones in real life?
[quote]Neuromancer wrote:
orion wrote:
Neuromancer wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
The US is not the only market for Chinese made products. Chinese businesses will sell anywhere they can. That is a fact.
The fundamentals that make the Chinese economy strong compared to the American economy is that the Chinese as a whole have virtually no debt and they produce more than they consume.
Anyone that still incorrectly believes, like RJ, that consumption drives the economy must ask the question why China hasn’t decided to start consuming its way to more wealth? After all, they have a much larger population with which to consume the stuff they already produce.
I agree that the US is not the only market,but it is certainly the biggest one.
Seeing how the current conditions have led to so many factories closing in China,and seeing the discontent of the employees on some segments on tv,how do you think the population would react to wholesale layoffs and unemployment?There would be civil unrest.I think this would make the political rulers there very,very uncomfortable.
This is certainly what would happen if there was a sharp drop off in US demand for their products,in my opinion.
You are aware that they Chinese are a giant market in and off themselves?
If they stop from artificially keeping their currency low and to buy American debt they also have the money to consume their own products.
They simply need to change their production to satisfy Chinese demand.
Yes,I am aware of that.
And I agree with you in theory.
But don’t you think that the two conditions you mention are rather large ones in real life?[/quote]
Some people assume that China is a country of blithering idiots who wish the same catastrophic collapse of the US as they do.
Orion assumes that all of China’s US holdings are short term. He has no clue what they are holding, but also assumes China shares the same desire to fuck the US as he does.
China isn’t nearly that stupid.
[quote]rainjack wrote:
orion wrote:
Neuromancer wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
The US is not the only market for Chinese made products. Chinese businesses will sell anywhere they can. That is a fact.
The fundamentals that make the Chinese economy strong compared to the American economy is that the Chinese as a whole have virtually no debt and they produce more than they consume.
Anyone that still incorrectly believes, like RJ, that consumption drives the economy must ask the question why China hasn’t decided to start consuming its way to more wealth? After all, they have a much larger population with which to consume the stuff they already produce.
I agree that the US is not the only market,but it is certainly the biggest one.
Seeing how the current conditions have led to so many factories closing in China,and seeing the discontent of the employees on some segments on tv,how do you think the population would react to wholesale layoffs and unemployment?There would be civil unrest.I think this would make the political rulers there very,very uncomfortable.
This is certainly what would happen if there was a sharp drop off in US demand for their products,in my opinion.
You are aware that they Chinese are a giant market in and off themselves?
If they stop from artificially keeping their currency low and to buy American debt they also have the money to consume their own products.
They simply need to change their production to satisfy Chinese demand.
There is quite a bit of profit differential between chopsticks and LCD TV’s.
[/quote]
Not really.
It depends what customers want at the time.
If they cannot afford LCD TV´s there is no profit in them at all.
That is why the Chinese would go through a tough period where they would need to shift their production to satisfy Chinese demand.
I am arguing that the Chinese are in a unique position to do so because their production base was in constant shift the last 20 years.
Right now they are lending you money to buy their products.
Why not keep the money and consume their production themselves?
[quote]Neuromancer wrote:
orion wrote:
Neuromancer wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
The US is not the only market for Chinese made products. Chinese businesses will sell anywhere they can. That is a fact.
The fundamentals that make the Chinese economy strong compared to the American economy is that the Chinese as a whole have virtually no debt and they produce more than they consume.
Anyone that still incorrectly believes, like RJ, that consumption drives the economy must ask the question why China hasn’t decided to start consuming its way to more wealth? After all, they have a much larger population with which to consume the stuff they already produce.
I agree that the US is not the only market,but it is certainly the biggest one.
Seeing how the current conditions have led to so many factories closing in China,and seeing the discontent of the employees on some segments on tv,how do you think the population would react to wholesale layoffs and unemployment?There would be civil unrest.I think this would make the political rulers there very,very uncomfortable.
This is certainly what would happen if there was a sharp drop off in US demand for their products,in my opinion.
You are aware that they Chinese are a giant market in and off themselves?
If they stop from artificially keeping their currency low and to buy American debt they also have the money to consume their own products.
They simply need to change their production to satisfy Chinese demand.
Yes,I am aware of that.
And I agree with you in theory.
But don’t you think that the two conditions you mention are rather large ones in real life?[/quote]
Those are huge obstacles, but todays situation is simply not sustainable.
As soon as it sinks in that they delay the inevitable and that time will only make matters worse, what are they to do?
[quote]rainjack wrote:
Neuromancer wrote:
orion wrote:
Neuromancer wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
The US is not the only market for Chinese made products. Chinese businesses will sell anywhere they can. That is a fact.
The fundamentals that make the Chinese economy strong compared to the American economy is that the Chinese as a whole have virtually no debt and they produce more than they consume.
Anyone that still incorrectly believes, like RJ, that consumption drives the economy must ask the question why China hasn’t decided to start consuming its way to more wealth? After all, they have a much larger population with which to consume the stuff they already produce.
I agree that the US is not the only market,but it is certainly the biggest one.
Seeing how the current conditions have led to so many factories closing in China,and seeing the discontent of the employees on some segments on tv,how do you think the population would react to wholesale layoffs and unemployment?There would be civil unrest.I think this would make the political rulers there very,very uncomfortable.
This is certainly what would happen if there was a sharp drop off in US demand for their products,in my opinion.
You are aware that they Chinese are a giant market in and off themselves?
If they stop from artificially keeping their currency low and to buy American debt they also have the money to consume their own products.
They simply need to change their production to satisfy Chinese demand.
Yes,I am aware of that.
And I agree with you in theory.
But don’t you think that the two conditions you mention are rather large ones in real life?
Some people assume that China is a country of blithering idiots who wish the same catastrophic collapse of the US as they do.
Orion assumes that all of China’s US holdings are short term. He has no clue what they are holding, but also assumes China shares the same desire to fuck the US as he does.
China isn’t nearly that stupid.
[/quote]
I know that US bonds have shifted from 30 year bonds to 10 year bonds and less.
That means that you constantly need to roll over your credit and it follows that you constantly need someone to lend you money.
Maybe they will, maybe they won´t, but they do not need to present their IOUs as some poster suggested.
Since your FED also needs to keep interest rates low to keep the US from collapsing and your government pumps money into the system as if they had invented it yesterday (inflation) your bonds are becoming increasingly unattractive.
At some point cutting the ties to the US will be the reasonable thing to do for the Chinese and it really only is a matter of time.
[quote]orion wrote:
rainjack wrote:
Neuromancer wrote:
orion wrote:
Neuromancer wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
The US is not the only market for Chinese made products. Chinese businesses will sell anywhere they can. That is a fact.
The fundamentals that make the Chinese economy strong compared to the American economy is that the Chinese as a whole have virtually no debt and they produce more than they consume.
Anyone that still incorrectly believes, like RJ, that consumption drives the economy must ask the question why China hasn’t decided to start consuming its way to more wealth? After all, they have a much larger population with which to consume the stuff they already produce.
I agree that the US is not the only market,but it is certainly the biggest one.
Seeing how the current conditions have led to so many factories closing in China,and seeing the discontent of the employees on some segments on tv,how do you think the population would react to wholesale layoffs and unemployment?There would be civil unrest.I think this would make the political rulers there very,very uncomfortable.
This is certainly what would happen if there was a sharp drop off in US demand for their products,in my opinion.
You are aware that they Chinese are a giant market in and off themselves?
If they stop from artificially keeping their currency low and to buy American debt they also have the money to consume their own products.
They simply need to change their production to satisfy Chinese demand.
Yes,I am aware of that.
And I agree with you in theory.
But don’t you think that the two conditions you mention are rather large ones in real life?
Some people assume that China is a country of blithering idiots who wish the same catastrophic collapse of the US as they do.
Orion assumes that all of China’s US holdings are short term. He has no clue what they are holding, but also assumes China shares the same desire to fuck the US as he does.
China isn’t nearly that stupid.
I know that US bonds have shifted from 30 year bonds to 10 year bonds and less.
That means that you constantly need to roll over your credit and it follows that you constantly need someone to lend you money.
Maybe they will, maybe they won´t, but they do not need to present their IOUs as some poster suggested.
Since your FED also needs to keep interest rates low to keep the US from collapsing and your government pumps money into the system as if they had invented it yesterday (inflation) your bonds are becoming increasingly unattractive.
At some point cutting the ties to the US will be the reasonable thing to do for the Chinese and it really only is a matter of time.[/quote]
The Euros are doing the same thing. China is lending Europe the same money.
This is cyclical. There was the same irrational fear of the Japanese, and the Saudis.
The world slowdown is affecting the Chinese economy as well. If your theories were correct, China would be immune to the global economy. They are not. They just put a shit ton of government money into their own economy to help keep it going.
If they try to fuck the US, they will only be hurting themselves.
Much to your chagrin, we will not be running naked and hungry in the streets anytime soon.
[quote]rainjack wrote:
orion wrote:
rainjack wrote:
Neuromancer wrote:
orion wrote:
Neuromancer wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
The US is not the only market for Chinese made products. Chinese businesses will sell anywhere they can. That is a fact.
The fundamentals that make the Chinese economy strong compared to the American economy is that the Chinese as a whole have virtually no debt and they produce more than they consume.
Anyone that still incorrectly believes, like RJ, that consumption drives the economy must ask the question why China hasn’t decided to start consuming its way to more wealth? After all, they have a much larger population with which to consume the stuff they already produce.
I agree that the US is not the only market,but it is certainly the biggest one.
Seeing how the current conditions have led to so many factories closing in China,and seeing the discontent of the employees on some segments on tv,how do you think the population would react to wholesale layoffs and unemployment?There would be civil unrest.I think this would make the political rulers there very,very uncomfortable.
This is certainly what would happen if there was a sharp drop off in US demand for their products,in my opinion.
You are aware that they Chinese are a giant market in and off themselves?
If they stop from artificially keeping their currency low and to buy American debt they also have the money to consume their own products.
They simply need to change their production to satisfy Chinese demand.
Yes,I am aware of that.
And I agree with you in theory.
But don’t you think that the two conditions you mention are rather large ones in real life?
Some people assume that China is a country of blithering idiots who wish the same catastrophic collapse of the US as they do.
Orion assumes that all of China’s US holdings are short term. He has no clue what they are holding, but also assumes China shares the same desire to fuck the US as he does.
China isn’t nearly that stupid.
I know that US bonds have shifted from 30 year bonds to 10 year bonds and less.
That means that you constantly need to roll over your credit and it follows that you constantly need someone to lend you money.
Maybe they will, maybe they won´t, but they do not need to present their IOUs as some poster suggested.
Since your FED also needs to keep interest rates low to keep the US from collapsing and your government pumps money into the system as if they had invented it yesterday (inflation) your bonds are becoming increasingly unattractive.
At some point cutting the ties to the US will be the reasonable thing to do for the Chinese and it really only is a matter of time.
The Euros are doing the same thing. China is lending Europe the same money.
This is cyclical. There was the same irrational fear of the Japanese, and the Saudis.
The world slowdown is affecting the Chinese economy as well. If your theories were correct, China would be immune to the global economy. They are not. They just put a shit ton of government money into their own economy to help keep it going.
If they try to fuck the US, they will only be hurting themselves.
Much to your chagrin, we will not be running naked and hungry in the streets anytime soon.
[/quote]
How would the Chinese be immune to a global crisis if I where correct?
Did I not write that their would need to be a major shift in their industry and that they would have to swallow that you will default on your debt?
They will go through a world of hurt but unlike the US they will come out of it stronger as they came in.
The US however will only go through a world of hurt.