Child Falls Into Dog Pen at Zoo

Off Topic
341

[quote]LoRez wrote:

[quote]WN76 wrote:

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:

[quote]WN76 wrote:

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]WN76 wrote:

I think it’s hard to judge someone’s survivability based on their appearance or their demeanor in a public place. Rest stops are relatively safe places for families to relax and get a meal while on the road from my experience. I’ve seen some pretty shady stops in the past though.

[/quote]

LOL

I would think the person who sees a rest stop as “safe” is exactly who we are talking about.

LOL @ “family rest stops”…aka, where to get raped.[/quote]

Oh man! I remember that one particular attempted rape. The woman (Alexandra Zapp) fought the fucker off (he was a repeat sex offender), but he ended up killing her in the bathroom stall.
[/quote]

This is a common rest stop along a highway I used to frequently travel.

Maybe you shouldn’t take your wife to places where the chance of rape is high?
[/quote]

Nice picture. Again, the illusion of safety.
You have thousands of people of all types coming and going daily. Not like the airport which is so heavily surveilled.
[/quote]

This is one of many along the highway I traveled. Are there shitty trucker stops? You bet. I don’t stop there because I don’t want the problems associated with shitty trucker stops. Especially when I’m with my wife.

Everyone should have a sense situational awareness. It doesn’t mean I think everyone should be in condition orange when they leave the house.
[/quote]

There’s a part of me that’s glad that you really don’t see the danger. That you really don’t see how something could go wrong in broad daylight, and nobody would even notice. I’m glad you’re not able to see “how could someone take advantage of the situation”. I feel a bit safer.

On the other hand, well, I think you’d be better off if you did see it.[/quote]

I don’t think you quite understood my point. I see a lot of victims in my line of work. I’m not ignorant of danger.

I always back my car into a spot after doing a loop of the parking lot, slice the pie when walking through a doorway, look at reflective surfaces, sitting with my back against a wall and with an unobstructed exit when possible, doors are always locked when I’m in the car, have keys in my hand when walking out to car, always looking at hands and belt-lines, etc. The list is endless.

My point is, you can’t live in a state of “OMG, this isn’t right, something is wrong, someone is going to hurt/kill me”. You CAN be aware of your surroundings and be able to recognize threat cues indefinitely. This is where I’m at 95% of the time.

Of course bad things happen when they shouldn’t. The idea is to be aware that it can happen so that IF something were to happen, you aren’t caught with your pants down.

Make sense?

342

[quote]WN76 wrote:

My point is, you can’t live in a state of “OMG, this isn’t right, something is wrong, someone is going to hurt/kill me”. You CAN be aware of your surroundings and be able to recognize threat cues indefinitely. This is where I’m at 95% of the time.

Of course bad things happen when they shouldn’t. The idea is to be aware that it can happen so that IF something were to happen, you aren’t caught with your pants down.

Make sense?

[/quote]

Wow. So in your mind…anyone who isn’t extremely casual is “OMG, this isn’t right, something is wrong, someone is going to hurt/kill me”?

Look, chances are high you will not die of old age. Something will likely take you out. People commenting that they don’t consider public reststops safe doesn’t equal “paranoia”.

343

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]WN76 wrote:

This is one of many along the highway I traveled. Are there shitty trucker stops? You bet. I don’t stop there because I don’t want the problems associated with shitty trucker stops. Especially when I’m with my wife.

Everyone should have a sense situational awareness. It doesn’t mean I think everyone should be in condition orange when they leave the house.

[/quote]

Once again…spoken like someone who likely hasn’t experienced much “danger” in real life.

Just so you can’t claim no one told you, I am sure many men here (especially those with military service) wouldn’t consider anything outside of their own home where they can control the environment to be “safe”…and then only as long as no one else breaks in or a fire isn’t started.

You are the kind of guy who loses his child in a restroom to a guy selling candy.

I mean…what if he was dressed nice and smiled a lot?

We once had a discussion here where people argued that it was strange for me to be on the look out when at a gas station at 3am. Many were convinced that if they had to be alert during these times, that it meant you were paranoid.

People like that are who criminals look for. They call that being a “mark”.
[/quote]

You don’t know anything about me, my experiences, or my training. I can guarantee I have a lot more relevant training in this area than you do as an Air Force MO.

A smart man recognizes the risks of going to a dangerous area at 3am, and DOESN’T go. A fool knows the risks, and goes anyway.

344

[quote]WN76 wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]WN76 wrote:

This is one of many along the highway I traveled. Are there shitty trucker stops? You bet. I don’t stop there because I don’t want the problems associated with shitty trucker stops. Especially when I’m with my wife.

Everyone should have a sense situational awareness. It doesn’t mean I think everyone should be in condition orange when they leave the house.

[/quote]

Once again…spoken like someone who likely hasn’t experienced much “danger” in real life.

Just so you can’t claim no one told you, I am sure many men here (especially those with military service) wouldn’t consider anything outside of their own home where they can control the environment to be “safe”…and then only as long as no one else breaks in or a fire isn’t started.

You are the kind of guy who loses his child in a restroom to a guy selling candy.

I mean…what if he was dressed nice and smiled a lot?

We once had a discussion here where people argued that it was strange for me to be on the look out when at a gas station at 3am. Many were convinced that if they had to be alert during these times, that it meant you were paranoid.

People like that are who criminals look for. They call that being a “mark”.
[/quote]

You don’t know anything about me, my experiences, or my training. I can guarantee I have a lot more relevant training in this area than you do as an Air Force MO.

A smart man recognizes the risks of going to a dangerous area at 3am, and DOESN’T go. A fool knows the risks, and goes anyway.
[/quote]

Ok. I’ll trust that you know what you’re talking about.

I had gotten the impression that your view was “hey, this place is clean and well lit and there’s lots of people, it’s probably safe”. But if what you said in the last couple posts is true, then I apparently got the wrong impression.

On the other hand, circling the parking lot before parking just sounds paranoid to me, since you really can’t get much information from it.

345

[quote]LoRez wrote:

[quote]WN76 wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]WN76 wrote:

This is one of many along the highway I traveled. Are there shitty trucker stops? You bet. I don’t stop there because I don’t want the problems associated with shitty trucker stops. Especially when I’m with my wife.

Everyone should have a sense situational awareness. It doesn’t mean I think everyone should be in condition orange when they leave the house.

[/quote]

Once again…spoken like someone who likely hasn’t experienced much “danger” in real life.

Just so you can’t claim no one told you, I am sure many men here (especially those with military service) wouldn’t consider anything outside of their own home where they can control the environment to be “safe”…and then only as long as no one else breaks in or a fire isn’t started.

You are the kind of guy who loses his child in a restroom to a guy selling candy.

I mean…what if he was dressed nice and smiled a lot?

We once had a discussion here where people argued that it was strange for me to be on the look out when at a gas station at 3am. Many were convinced that if they had to be alert during these times, that it meant you were paranoid.

People like that are who criminals look for. They call that being a “mark”.
[/quote]

You don’t know anything about me, my experiences, or my training. I can guarantee I have a lot more relevant training in this area than you do as an Air Force MO.

A smart man recognizes the risks of going to a dangerous area at 3am, and DOESN’T go. A fool knows the risks, and goes anyway.
[/quote]

Ok. I’ll trust that you know what you’re talking about.

I had gotten the impression that your view was “hey, this place is clean and well lit and there’s lots of people, it’s probably safe”. But if what you said in the last couple posts is true, then I apparently got the wrong impression.

On the other hand, circling the parking lot before parking just sounds paranoid to me, since you really can’t get much information from it.[/quote]

It’s all good. Clean, well lit, public places are generally safer than dark, dirty places that aren’t open. Not saying it’s OK to completely relax…

As for the parking lot, you get to see who’s out in the parking lot, if there is another way in/out, get a view of the building, or if there is a better parking spot. Obviously I wouldn’t do this in a large parking lot at a mall or something. I do this on the job more than anything, and just made it a habit.

346

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]WN76 wrote:

My point is, you can’t live in a state of “OMG, this isn’t right, something is wrong, someone is going to hurt/kill me”. You CAN be aware of your surroundings and be able to recognize threat cues indefinitely. This is where I’m at 95% of the time.

Of course bad things happen when they shouldn’t. The idea is to be aware that it can happen so that IF something were to happen, you aren’t caught with your pants down.

Make sense?

[/quote]

Wow. So in your mind…anyone who isn’t extremely casual is “OMG, this isn’t right, something is wrong, someone is going to hurt/kill me”?

Look, chances are high you will not die of old age. Something will likely take you out. People commenting that they don’t consider public reststops safe doesn’t equal “paranoia”.[/quote]

Look, If you think getting gas at 3am is an adrenalin rush, try doing an unknown risk traffic stop at 3am with a car full of males and get back to me. That happens many times a night. If I freaked out every time I interacted with people after dark, I would die of stress. You maintain your situational awareness, and if you notice something, you deal with it.

There’s a risk anytime you leave your house. I always think to myself “Today could be the day” but I don’t let it get in the way of how I go about my life. The best way to not get fucked up is to not frequent places where people get fucked up.

347

[quote]WN76 wrote:

There’s a risk anytime you leave your house. I always think to myself “Today could be the day” but I don’t let it get in the way of how I go about my life. The best way to not get fucked up is to not frequent places where people get fucked up.

[/quote]

What I was getting at is how “semantics” caused you to think that everyone else was paranoid every time they left the house simply because they don’t see a public rest stop as “safe”.

No, I would never look at a rest stop and say “that looks like a safe place for the kids”.

Maybe a day care center with security…but no, not a public rest stop…no matter how trendy the lighting and decor.

348

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]WN76 wrote:

There’s a risk anytime you leave your house. I always think to myself “Today could be the day” but I don’t let it get in the way of how I go about my life. The best way to not get fucked up is to not frequent places where people get fucked up.

[/quote]

What I was getting at is how “semantics” caused you to think that everyone else was paranoid every time they left the house simply because they don’t see a public rest stop as “safe”.

No, I would never look at a rest stop and say “that looks like a safe place for the kids”.

Maybe a day care center with security…but no, not a public rest stop…no matter how trendy the lighting and decor.[/quote]

Would I let children wander around in any public place out of my immediate eye sight? Hell no. That doesn’t mean they can’t sit down at a table with me and eat some food and not worry about the proverbial Bogey-Man. The rest stops you are used to must be completely different from what I’m used to. If I thought my loved ones would be placed in danger at a particular rest stop, I would not even go there.

Just for arguments sake, lots of kids get sexually abused at day care centers, even the ones with trendy lighting and decor.

349

[quote]WN76 wrote:

Just for arguments sake, lots of kids get sexually abused at day care centers, even the ones with trendy lighting and decor. [/quote]

…Which is why you watch your ass everywhere…even the trendy places…regardless of if people on the internet think that is paranoid.

350

My son just turned 20. I still accompany him to the restroom at the rest stop.

If that’s paranoid, call me Ozzy.

351

For the record, the only thing I thought was paranoid was circling the parking lot before you park.

And my only reason was that it doesn’t give you a whole lot of information about threats. Some of the more obvious ones, sure, but it’s pretty ineffective for risk assessment; especially for things like kidnapping which doesn’t seem to tie too closely along socioeconomic lines.

352

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]WN76 wrote:

Just for arguments sake, lots of kids get sexually abused at day care centers, even the ones with trendy lighting and decor. [/quote]

…Which is why you watch your ass everywhere…even the trendy places…regardless of if people on the internet think that is paranoid.[/quote]

You always watch your ass. We’re arguing about levels of alertness here and it’s getting ridiculous.

I’m going to be more alert at a shitty, poorly lit rest stop with a lot of cover and “doesn’t look right” feeling (if I even stop there) than I would be at the rest stop I pictured because in the one pictured there is less of the unknown. People at each location are equally unknown because there is no way of knowing someone’s intentions if they wish to conceal them.

353

[quote]WN76 wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]WN76 wrote:

Just for arguments sake, lots of kids get sexually abused at day care centers, even the ones with trendy lighting and decor. [/quote]

…Which is why you watch your ass everywhere…even the trendy places…regardless of if people on the internet think that is paranoid.[/quote]

You always watch your ass. We’re arguing about levels of alertness here and it’s getting ridiculous.

I’m going to be more alert at a shitty, poorly lit rest stop with a lot of cover and “doesn’t look right” feeling (if I even stop there) than I would be at the rest stop I pictured because in the one pictured there is less of the unknown. People at each location are equally unknown because there is no way of knowing someone’s intentions if they wish to conceal them.
[/quote]

It’s nowhere near ridiculous yet. This is just the start.

354

[quote]LoRez wrote:
For the record, the only thing I thought was paranoid was circling the parking lot before you park.

And my only reason was that it doesn’t give you a whole lot of information about threats. Some of the more obvious ones, sure, but it’s pretty ineffective for risk assessment; especially for things like kidnapping which doesn’t seem to tie too closely along socioeconomic lines.[/quote]

Yea, well if your kid gets kidnapped, your little parking lot circle gave you information on the parking lot layout which may give you an advantage in closing up the pursuit. Maybe during the parking lot patrol, you spot a windowless van parked near a curb. When you realize your kid is gone, the van is no longer there. Police might find that interesting.

You don’t think knowing alternative entrances and exits and routes of travel may be important in the event of a kidnapping?

355

[quote]LoRez wrote:

[quote]WN76 wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]WN76 wrote:

Just for arguments sake, lots of kids get sexually abused at day care centers, even the ones with trendy lighting and decor. [/quote]

…Which is why you watch your ass everywhere…even the trendy places…regardless of if people on the internet think that is paranoid.[/quote]

You always watch your ass. We’re arguing about levels of alertness here and it’s getting ridiculous.

I’m going to be more alert at a shitty, poorly lit rest stop with a lot of cover and “doesn’t look right” feeling (if I even stop there) than I would be at the rest stop I pictured because in the one pictured there is less of the unknown. People at each location are equally unknown because there is no way of knowing someone’s intentions if they wish to conceal them.
[/quote]

It’s nowhere near ridiculous yet. This is just the start.[/quote]

We should start a new thread then.

356

[quote]WN76 wrote:

[quote]LoRez wrote:
For the record, the only thing I thought was paranoid was circling the parking lot before you park.

And my only reason was that it doesn’t give you a whole lot of information about threats. Some of the more obvious ones, sure, but it’s pretty ineffective for risk assessment; especially for things like kidnapping which doesn’t seem to tie too closely along socioeconomic lines.[/quote]

Yea, well if your kid gets kidnapped, your little parking lot circle gave you information on the parking lot layout which may give you an advantage in closing up the pursuit. Maybe during the parking lot patrol, you spot a windowless van parked near a curb. When you realize your kid is gone, the van is no longer there. Police might find that interesting.

You don’t think knowing alternative entrances and exits and routes of travel may be important in the event of a kidnapping? [/quote]

Well, sure, all information is useful. I just think it’s a bit of a long shot, for a couple reasons.

A windowless van by the curb is a lot more obvious. But generic SUVs with tinted rear windows fill up parking lots too. Assuming the kidnapper isn’t too stupid, they’re not going to be driving an “obvious” vehicle. And I think that’s a fairly safe assumption if they’re smart enough to figure out how to pull off a kidnapping in daylight in a populated rest area. In the 10-15 minutes you’ll spend inside, there will be a lot of vehicle turnover. You’re probably not going to know which vehicle it was.

Secondly, I’m assuming you’re already watching over your kid(s) when you’re inside. Except for restrooms [which don’t have emergency exits], the number of areas where a child could be kidnapped in plain sight is pretty limited, especially if you’re maintaining good situational awareness.

Now, I’m not saying it’s worthless, and I often do assess parking lot exits and “suspicious” vehicles when I’m stopping somewhere… I just don’t make a loop to do it. But I also don’t have kids.

357

[quote]LoRez wrote:

[quote]WN76 wrote:

[quote]LoRez wrote:
For the record, the only thing I thought was paranoid was circling the parking lot before you park.

And my only reason was that it doesn’t give you a whole lot of information about threats. Some of the more obvious ones, sure, but it’s pretty ineffective for risk assessment; especially for things like kidnapping which doesn’t seem to tie too closely along socioeconomic lines.[/quote]

Yea, well if your kid gets kidnapped, your little parking lot circle gave you information on the parking lot layout which may give you an advantage in closing up the pursuit. Maybe during the parking lot patrol, you spot a windowless van parked near a curb. When you realize your kid is gone, the van is no longer there. Police might find that interesting.

You don’t think knowing alternative entrances and exits and routes of travel may be important in the event of a kidnapping? [/quote]

Well, sure, all information is useful. I just think it’s a bit of a long shot, for a couple reasons.

A windowless van by the curb is a lot more obvious. But generic SUVs with tinted rear windows fill up parking lots too. Assuming the kidnapper isn’t too stupid, they’re not going to be driving an “obvious” vehicle. And I think that’s a fairly safe assumption if they’re smart enough to figure out how to pull off a kidnapping in daylight in a populated rest area. In the 10-15 minutes you’ll spend inside, there will be a lot of vehicle turnover. You’re probably not going to know which vehicle it was.

Secondly, I’m assuming you’re already watching over your kid(s) when you’re inside. Except for restrooms [which don’t have emergency exits], the number of areas where a child could be kidnapped in plain sight is pretty limited, especially if you’re maintaining good situational awareness.

Now, I’m not saying it’s worthless, and I often do assess parking lot exits and “suspicious” vehicles when I’m stopping somewhere… I just don’t make a loop to do it. But I also don’t have kids.[/quote]

I agree with you. It’s a bit on the paranoid side. I just do it out of habit because I do it at work.

359

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
My son just turned 20. I still accompany him to the restroom at the rest stop.

If that’s paranoid, call me Ozzy. [/quote]

I think you’re going off the rails on a crazy train…[/quote]

Heh heh!

Speaking of sons, Push, how’s yours recovering?