Cheesetastics Anonymous

[quote]rainjack wrote:
Elkhntr1 wrote:
A couple of things I forgot to mention. Please ignore me if I bother you that much ignore me and I will afford you the same courtesy!

And about your line above “and I’ll show you just how retarded I am,” Please don’t, I don’t know if I could withstand an onslaught of that magnitude.

Elk - you are indeed bizarro rainjack.

Don’t confuse this with me agreeing with you - but that was funny.[/quote]

I know what you’re all gonna say, but I agree with RJ…that was pretty funny.
And the best part, Elk, is that you did it without quoting vroom!
<insert clapping hands guy!>

[quote]rainjack wrote:
Elkhntr1 wrote:
A couple of things I forgot to mention. Please ignore me if I bother you that much ignore me and I will afford you the same courtesy!

And about your line above “and I’ll show you just how retarded I am,” Please don’t, I don’t know if I could withstand an onslaught of that magnitude.

Elk - you are indeed bizarro rainjack.

Don’t confuse this with me agreeing with you - but that was funny.[/quote]

Don’t worry rainman, I would never make that colossal mistake.:wink:

I would like to take think I’m witty guy at times, but when someone is giving em away like that it’s hard in good conscience to take credit. Well at least I’m not doing any satooping with Lance Armstrong today. Ha, ha!

Greetings!!!

Today’s offering.

From the Associated Press:

Marines Find ‘Insurgent Lair’ Outside Baghdad
Saturday, June 04, 2005

LATIFIYAH, Iraq ? Hundreds of Iraqi and U.S. troops searched fields and farms Saturday for insurgents and their hideouts in an area south of Baghdad known for attacks, and the Marines said they discovered 50 weapons and ammunition caches and a huge underground bunker west of the capital fitted out with air conditioning, a kitchen and showers.

The joint U.S.-Iraqi force operating in Latifiyah (search) to the south was backed by American air power and said it had rounded up at least 108 Iraqis, mainly Sunnis, suspected of involvement in the brutal insurgent campaign to topple the Shiite-led government.

To the west of the capital, the 2nd Marine division said its forces had discovered 50 weapons and ammunitions caches over the past four days in restive Anbar province. The military said the find included a recently used “insurgent lair” in a massive underground bunker complex that included air-conditioned living quarters and high tech military equipment, including night vision goggles.

That bunker was found cut from a rock quarry in Karmah (search), 50 miles west of Baghdad. The Marines said the facility was 170 yards wide and 275 yards long.

In its rooms were “four fully furnished living spaces, a kitchen with fresh food, two shower facilities and a working air conditioner. Other rooms within the complex were filled with weapons and ammunition,” the announcement said.

The weapons included “numerous types of machine guns, ordnance, including mortars, rockets and artillery rounds, black uniforms, ski masks, compasses, log books, night vision goggles, and fully charged cell phones.”

In Latifiyah, 20 miles south of Baghdad, Iraqi and American forces launched a raid as part of Operation Lightning, a week-old assault aimed at rooting out insurgents conducting raids on the capital and sapping militant strength nationwide.

Great news!!!

JeffR

[quote]JeffR wrote:

Great news!!!

JeffR[/quote]

Which part? The part that admits that these people were living in fully furnished living spaces comfortably, or the part about us not finding even one of them in the place which means our intel might be compromised along with our communications? I can’t tell which I should be proud of.

When I was there in 2003, working with U.S. Army civil affairs, we were giving the Iraqis water and electricity in a few of the local villages.

Sunni’s ready to make a deal…sorry for more positive news. As if.

IRAQ: Rolling Up the Hideouts

June 5, 2005: A government research center has compiled statistics on the effects of terrorist violence in the past two years. The most telling statistic is that 83 percent of the Iraqis killed in the last 18 months have been Shia Arabs (who make up 60 percent of the population.) Most of the remaining dead were Sunni Arabs (20 percent of the population). The Kurds (most of the remaining 20 percent of the population), have protected themselves via a large militia and enthusiastic participation in the police and security forces.

Many of the police commandoes you see all over Iraq are Kurds. Releasing these statistics sends a message to the Sunni Arabs; we’re not going to put up with Sunni Arab support of terrorism much longer. Already, Sunni Arab leaders are complaining of death squads assassinating Sunni Arab religious leaders who have been outspoken in their hatred for Shias.

Preaching against Shia “heretics” is a coded way of supporting al Qaeda and the restoration of Sunni Arab rule in Iraq. Most Sunni Arab leaders have already gotten the message; participate in a democratic Iraq, or face the wrath of the Kurds and Shia Arab majority population you have tormented for so long. Iraq doesn’t want to lose its Sunni Arabs, for they comprise the majority of college trained professionals, experienced government officials and military and police officers. But if the Sunni Arab support for terror continues, the Shia Arab and Kurdish politicians won’t be able to stop the retribution. Sort of the dark side of democracy

Out in western Iraqi, 55 kilometers west of Fallujah, Iraqi soldiers and U.S. Marines found a huge underground bunker system. Over 130,000 square feet in size, parts were air conditioned, and, the presence of fresh food in the kitchen area, indicates it was recently abandoned. Much equipment was left behind, including working, and charged, cell phones.

Entrance was via a trap door, hidden beneath a freezer in a building standing in the middle of the desert. The bunker system was one of many built by Saddam, and not revealed, or found, when Saddam fell. This one was built into a rock quarry, which made it easy to hide the construction effort. The operation, west of Baghdad, that found this bunker system, also found fifty other weapons caches and hideouts.

The week long Iraqi operation in and around Baghdad was a big success. Over 700 arrests were made, and there was a dramatic drop in terror attacks inside the city. There was also a noticeable change in attitude by Sunni Arab leaders in Baghdad, who now have to deal with a non-Sunni Arab government that has obviously put together an effective police force, and growing professional army. This is the kind of armed force that Sunni Arabs used for decades to rule Iraq. Now the Shia Arabs have it, and are using it. Time to make a deal

Hedo, that’s great, but we both know a guerilla army operates on lies, kinda like we do at times. They will lay low and at times feign weakness and then “bam” throw down some some attacks after they have regrouped.

Unlike a conventional military power like us, they make do with what they have. And, what they have and we don’t is time.

If this indeed shows that they are fucked up and hurting then right on!

On what hedo wrote:

Okay, then. Great. Let’s pull out then! Let the Kurds and Shia’s subjugate the Sunnis if they won’t make a deal. Why should Americans (and Brits, Aussies, etc) still be risking their lives if the ‘effective police force, and growing professional army’ is in place?

Elk

Agreed. I like to see them capture this type of ordanance because it will not be used against us. Ultimately I think the Iraqi’s will decide which direction they want to take. If they don’t support the insurgents they will wither away. If the people support the insurgents then the battle will be hard to win.

Dean,

A pullout is premature. I think a force reduction will occur within the next 2 years. It is likely we will have permanent basing in Iraq for many years to come. Not to protect the Iraqi’s but to keep pressure on the neighbors to play nice with each other.

Holy shit, you guys can argue about anything!

[quote]Elkhntr1 wrote:
rainjack wrote:
Elkhntr1 wrote:
A couple of things I forgot to mention. Please ignore me if I bother you that much ignore me and I will afford you the same courtesy!

And about your line above “and I’ll show you just how retarded I am,” Please don’t, I don’t know if I could withstand an onslaught of that magnitude.

Elk - you are indeed bizarro rainjack.

Don’t confuse this with me agreeing with you - but that was funny.

Don’t worry rainman, I would never make that colossal mistake.:wink:

I would like to take think I’m witty guy at times, but when someone is giving em away like that it’s hard in good conscience to take credit. Well at least I’m not doing any satooping with Lance Armstrong today. Ha, ha!
[/quote]

Well I guess I have to let this one go… I was initially upset about you making fun of me… again… but as long as you can make some people laugh I guess it’s cool. So for now… Touche!

V

[quote]vroom wrote:
BULLSHIT. I call shenanigans so hard right now that the shenanigans are coming out of my nose. BULLSHIT!!!

Yeah, I think your “fair and balanced” is showing. Why, in all it’s great and balanced glory, isn’t FOX giving you what you want?

It’s a liberal conspiracy right? Moron.[/quote]

I’m a moron? But here you are like I knew you would be, trying to pick apart the reason for this thread just like I said you would.

PS I’m not here to be fair and balanced. Like I’ve said five gazillion times in this thread already. You are slow, and that’s not your fault, so I will restate yet again why I’m building this thread:

To tell the other side of the story that we don’t get from the MSM.

Call it a conspiracy, call it irresponsible, call it whatever you want, but it’s real. I happen to be very disappointed in our supposedly awesome and unbiased MSM. You are not. Oh well.

Here’s something I found after googling some tonight:

http://www.goodnewsiraq.com/index2.htm

Pretty cool site, it’s a couple of guys basically doing some news gathering of their own like we are doing here.

Here’s an analysis by a reporter in Kansas which surprised the heck out of me:

Mr. McClanahan’s editorial is almost two months old, but its message speaks to exactly what I’ve experienced trying to build this thread. I’ll highlight a quote from his essay:

As Lawrence F. Kaplan wrote recently on The New Republic’s Web site, ?The question ? is, when and if things turn out well in Iraq, will journalists even be able to recognize it? I’m not so sure.?

I wonder the same thing. I’m not saying that there is one hand behind all of the media bias here, I’m just saying that it exists. Obviously… take a look at any MSM outlet. And the point above is well spoken. What is it going to take for the MSM to change their stance on this? I don’t know about you guys, but I’m pretty damn hopeful about Iraq. If even half of what I’m expecting to happen comes to fruition, then the media is going to be forced to come to grips with the way they handled this whole Iraq affair.

Who’s going to be the first to say “sorry, my bad” ?

[quote]lothario1132 wrote:
Here’s an analysis by a reporter in Kansas which surprised the heck out of me:

Mr. McClanahan’s editorial is almost two months old, but its message speaks to exactly what I’ve experienced trying to build this thread. I’ll highlight a quote from his essay:

As Lawrence F. Kaplan wrote recently on The New Republic’s Web site, ?The question ? is, when and if things turn out well in Iraq, will journalists even be able to recognize it? I’m not so sure.?

I wonder the same thing. I’m not saying that there is one hand behind all of the media bias here, I’m just saying that it exists. Obviously… take a look at any MSM outlet. And the point above is well spoken. What is it going to take for the MSM to change their stance on this? I don’t know about you guys, but I’m pretty damn hopeful about Iraq. If even half of what I’m expecting to happen comes to fruition, then the media is going to be forced to come to grips with the way they handled this whole Iraq affair.

Who’s going to be the first to say “sorry, my bad” ?
[/quote]

Why, because Kaplan wrote an article? Well my 4th grade teacher said…

I think that the reasons for not printing positive stories on the war are due mainly to two factors, both of which have been pointed out:

  1. Nice stories don’t sell
  2. You can’t write a story on unsubstantiable/unquantifiable facts.

I definitely don’t think it’s because the news is taking a liberal view. See this article from the Seattle Times

http://archives.seattletimes.nwsource.com/cgi-bin/texis.cgi/web/vortex/display?slug=sundaygoodman03&date=20050403&query=why+media+ownership+matters

[quote]graphicsMan wrote:
Why, because Kaplan wrote an article? Well my 4th grade teacher said…[/quote]

??? I don’t get it. The fact that I posted this has nothing to do with Kaplan, it has to do with the fact that I actually found a reporter in Kansas who sees the bias, too. Most of them won’t own up to their “idiosyncrasies”.

All I meant to say was that just because a member of the media agrees with your standpoint doesn’t mean everyone in the thread will bow down to your wisdom.

The article in the Kansas City Star WAS interesting though.

For the record, I agree that good things are happening over there (along with bad things), and even though I didn’t agree with going over there in the first place, and the stated goals are not likely the driving force behind the war, I think some of the outcomes may be positive.

The most positive news we could hear is that the troops were finished over there and coming home.

[quote]graphicsMan wrote:
See this article from the Seattle Times
George Bush must have been delighted to learn from a recent Washington Post-ABC News poll that 56 percent of Americans still think Iraq had weapons of mass destruction before the start of the war, while six in 10 said they believe Iraq provided direct support to the al-Qaida terrorist network ? notions that have long since been thoroughly debunked by everyone from the U.S. Senate Intelligence Committee to both of Bush’s handpicked weapons inspectors, Charles Duelfer and David Kay.

Americans believe these lies not because they are stupid, but because they are good media consumers. Our media have become an echo chamber for those in power. Rather than challenge the fraudulent claims of the Bush administration, we’ve had a media acting as a conveyor belt for the government’s lies.

As the Pentagon has learned, deploying the American media is more powerful than any bomb. The explosive effect is amplified as a few pro-war, pro-government media moguls consolidate their grip over the majority of news outlets. Media monopoly and militarism go hand in hand.
[/quote]

This was very interesting.

[quote]graphicsMan wrote:

  1. You can’t write a story on unsubstantiable/unquantifiable facts.[/quote]

Might want to pass that along to Dan Rather.

The article was interesting but this article is little less one sided. If you go to the site, it breaks down in tons of detail the different parts of the communication industry and even who recieved the most money from them. President Bush was the lead recipient from all 3 groups and Kerry was second in two of three which I thought was interesting, the whole CYA of it.

http://www.publicintegrity.org/telecom/printer-friendly.aspx?aid=405

Party Total %
Democratic Party $82,632,000 56.19%
Republican Party $63,473,000 43.17%
Other/Independent $942,000 0.64%
Total $147,047,000

Source: Federal Election Commission contribution records from January 1998 to September 2004

And you other point about the troops coming home, please understand that is not going to happen, ever. We will have a drawdown eventually but as long as the Middle East is considered vital to US interest we will be there. Maybe not in the same numbers, but we will not pull out lock stock and barrel. As I have said before, I have been deploying to that region since 1989 and I don’t forsee it stopping.