Charlie Brown Kwanza

Off Topic
61

[quote]Kuz wrote:

Don’t get me wrong. I think a lot of things that are wrapped in the mantle of “diversity” or “multiculturism” can be fairly divisive, but this one… don’t see it. If St. Patrick’s Day is not viewed as divisive, then why this?[/quote]

Karenga also created a Kwanzaa flag that consists of black, green, and red. The Kwanzaa Information Center states the color red represents blood: ?We lost our land through blood; and we cannot gain it except through blood. We must redeem our lives through the blood. Without the shedding of blood there can be no redemption of this race.? The Kwanzaa Information Center also notes that this flag ?has become a symbol of devotion for African people in America to establish an independent African nation on the North American Continent.?

That’s not divisive? Whose blood do you think needs to be shed to establish this new nation?

The Kwanzaa pledge of allegiance:

?We pledge allegiance to the red, black and green, our flag, the symbol of our eternal struggle, and to the land we must obtain; one nation of black people, with one God of us all, totally united in the struggle, for black love, black freedom and black self-determination.?

That’s not divisive?

62

[quote]doogie wrote:
Kuz wrote:

Don’t get me wrong. I think a lot of things that are wrapped in the mantle of “diversity” or “multiculturism” can be fairly divisive, but this one… don’t see it. If St. Patrick’s Day is not viewed as divisive, then why this?

Karenga also created a Kwanzaa flag that consists of black, green, and red. The Kwanzaa Information Center states the color red represents blood: ?We lost our land through blood; and we cannot gain it except through blood. We must redeem our lives through the blood. Without the shedding of blood there can be no redemption of this race.? The Kwanzaa Information Center also notes that this flag ?has become a symbol of devotion for African people in America to establish an independent African nation on the North American Continent.?

That’s not divisive? Whose blood do you think needs to be shed to establish this new nation?

The Kwanzaa pledge of allegiance:

?We pledge allegiance to the red, black and green, our flag, the symbol of our eternal struggle, and to the land we must obtain; one nation of black people, with one God of us all, totally united in the struggle, for black love, black freedom and black self-determination.?

That’s not divisive?

[/quote]

Not in my mind, nope…

Hell the Marine Corps Hymn might be considered divisive by some doogie, stating that Marines will be guarding heaven, etc.

It’s your perception that their pledge is divisive, but I don’t think that it is.

63

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
So I guess no one sees any humor in that?
I thought it was funnier than hell.
[/quote]

“Now hear me out or I’ll slap the black of y’all.”

I thought it was pretty good too, didn’t really find it overly offensive either.

64

[quote]doogie wrote:
Kuz wrote:

Don’t get me wrong. I think a lot of things that are wrapped in the mantle of “diversity” or “multiculturism” can be fairly divisive, but this one… don’t see it. If St. Patrick’s Day is not viewed as divisive, then why this?

Karenga also created a Kwanzaa flag that consists of black, green, and red. The Kwanzaa Information Center states the color red represents blood: ?We lost our land through blood; and we cannot gain it except through blood. We must redeem our lives through the blood. Without the shedding of blood there can be no redemption of this race.? The Kwanzaa Information Center also notes that this flag ?has become a symbol of devotion for African people in America to establish an independent African nation on the North American Continent.?

That’s not divisive? Whose blood do you think needs to be shed to establish this new nation?

The Kwanzaa pledge of allegiance:

?We pledge allegiance to the red, black and green, our flag, the symbol of our eternal struggle, and to the land we must obtain; one nation of black people, with one God of us all, totally united in the struggle, for black love, black freedom and black self-determination.?

That’s not divisive?

[/quote]

You’re right doogie it is offensive. Anybody who doesn’t think that this is offensive better think again. Especially crap like this;

“We must redeem our lives through the blood. Without the shedding of blood there can be no redemption of this race.”

I don’t think they’re talkig about slitting their own wrists, that only leaves one other option. That would be white peoples blood that these loons are talking about shedding.

With that said I don’t think every black person who celebrates this holiday wants to kill white people. I’d like to think that a huge majority doesn’t. But they ought to at least look into what they’re celebrating.

Those are very offensive words.

65

[quote]elevationgain wrote:
doogie wrote:
Kuz wrote:

Don’t get me wrong. I think a lot of things that are wrapped in the mantle of “diversity” or “multiculturism” can be fairly divisive, but this one… don’t see it. If St. Patrick’s Day is not viewed as divisive, then why this?

Karenga also created a Kwanzaa flag that consists of black, green, and red. The Kwanzaa Information Center states the color red represents blood: ?We lost our land through blood; and we cannot gain it except through blood. We must redeem our lives through the blood. Without the shedding of blood there can be no redemption of this race.? The Kwanzaa Information Center also notes that this flag ?has become a symbol of devotion for African people in America to establish an independent African nation on the North American Continent.?

That’s not divisive? Whose blood do you think needs to be shed to establish this new nation?

The Kwanzaa pledge of allegiance:

?We pledge allegiance to the red, black and green, our flag, the symbol of our eternal struggle, and to the land we must obtain; one nation of black people, with one God of us all, totally united in the struggle, for black love, black freedom and black self-determination.?

That’s not divisive?

Not in my mind, nope…

Hell the Marine Corps Hymn might be considered divisive by some doogie, stating that Marines will be guarding heaven, etc.

It’s your perception that their pledge is divisive, but I don’t think that it is.
[/quote]

How stupid do you have to be to not think advocating the establishment of a SEPARATE nation in North America for Black people is not divisive. If David Duke said he wanted to establish a White nation in North America, you don’t think that would be divisive?

66

[quote]doogie wrote:
The Kwanzaa pledge of allegiance:

?We pledge allegiance to the red, black and green, our flag, the symbol of our eternal struggle, and to the land we must obtain; one nation of black people, with one God of us all, totally united in the struggle, for black love, black freedom and black self-determination.?

That’s not divisive?

[/quote]

The official Kwanzaa website doesn’t have anything about this ‘pledge of allegiance’.

It has something about the flag:

Bendera (The Flag)
The colors of the Kwanzaa flag are the colors of the Organization Us, black, red and green; black for the people, red for their struggle, and green for the future and hope that comes from their struggle. It is based on the colors given by the Hon. Marcus Garvey as national colors for African people throughout the world.

and then the author elaborates on what is meant by ‘their struggle’:

  1. How is Kwanzaa related to our struggle to achieve social justice and build a better world?

Kwanzaa organizes people, gives them a chance to ingather, and to reinforce the bonds between them, and to focus on positive cultural values and practice. And in reinforcing the bonds between us and reaffirming us in the best of our values, we are strengthened in our struggle for a morally grounded and empowered community, a just and good society and a world of peace and freedom.

Kwanzaa helps us to focus on the collective aspect of what we are about as a people with its focus on ingathering of the people, special reverence for the Creator and creation, commemoration of the past, recommitment to our highest values, and celebration of the good in life.

Kwanzaa was created out of the philosophy of Kawaida, which is a cultural nationalist philosophy that argues that the key challenge in Black people’s life is the challenge of culture, and that what Africans must do is to discover and bring forth the best of their culture, both ancient and current, and use it as a foundation to bring into being models of human excellence and possibilities to enrich and expand our lives.

It was created in 1966 in the midst of our struggles for liberation and was part of our organization Us’ efforts to create, recreate and circulate African culture as an aid to building community, enriching Black consciousness, and reaffirming the value of cultural grounding for life and struggle.

but it doesn’t mention anything about establishing territory of their own in North America.

So Doogie, is Dr. Maulana Karenga using the official website as a cover or what?

67

[quote]Mufasa wrote:
YEAAAHHH!!!

My BITCH got my back!!![/quote]

I’d hit it.

68

[quote]doogie wrote:

How stupid do you have to be to not think advocating the establishment of a SEPERATE nation in North America for Black people is not divisive. If David Duke said he wanted to establish a White nation in North America, you don’t think that would be divisive?
[/quote]

How stupid do you have to be to not think advocating the establishment of a SEPARATE nation of TEXANS in North America, and the celebration of that advocation is not divisive to the rest of the country?

See where I’m coming from Doogie?

Probably not, but oh well.

You’re probably thinking why don’t I leave Texas out of this, but it’s a very similar argument when you consider it. I’d still use this argument even if you weren’t from there.

And yes, some of the angst is becaue I’m not the biggest fan of Texas, thus making me think in turn that you’re not the biggest fan of African Americans.

GAINER.

69

[quote]CaptainLogic wrote:
doogie wrote:
The Kwanzaa pledge of allegiance:

?We pledge allegiance to the red, black and green, our flag, the symbol of our eternal struggle, and to the land we must obtain; one nation of black people, with one God of us all, totally united in the struggle, for black love, black freedom and black self-determination.?

That’s not divisive?

The official Kwanzaa website doesn’t have anything about this ‘pledge of allegiance’.

It has something about the flag:

Bendera (The Flag)
The colors of the Kwanzaa flag are the colors of the Organization Us, black, red and green; black for the people, red for their struggle, and green for the future and hope that comes from their struggle. It is based on the colors given by the Hon. Marcus Garvey as national colors for African people throughout the world.

and then the author elaborates on what is meant by ‘their struggle’:

  1. How is Kwanzaa related to our struggle to achieve social justice and build a better world?

Kwanzaa organizes people, gives them a chance to ingather, and to reinforce the bonds between them, and to focus on positive cultural values and practice. And in reinforcing the bonds between us and reaffirming us in the best of our values, we are strengthened in our struggle for a morally grounded and empowered community, a just and good society and a world of peace and freedom.

Kwanzaa helps us to focus on the collective aspect of what we are about as a people with its focus on ingathering of the people, special reverence for the Creator and creation, commemoration of the past, recommitment to our highest values, and celebration of the good in life.

Kwanzaa was created out of the philosophy of Kawaida, which is a cultural nationalist philosophy that argues that the key challenge in Black people’s life is the challenge of culture, and that what Africans must do is to discover and bring forth the best of their culture, both ancient and current, and use it as a foundation to bring into being models of human excellence and possibilities to enrich and expand our lives.

It was created in 1966 in the midst of our struggles for liberation and was part of our organization Us’ efforts to create, recreate and circulate African culture as an aid to building community, enriching Black consciousness, and reaffirming the value of cultural grounding for life and struggle.

but it doesn’t mention anything about establishing territory of their own in North America.

So Doogie, is Dr. Maulana Karenga using the official website as a cover or what?[/quote]

The site used to be run directly by the United Slaves (Dr. Maulana Karenga’s group)and included the above statement and pledge. After this was pointed out on the internet (around 2000) and led to some bad press, it was quickly changed and now is just run by Dr. Maulana Karenga.

70

[quote]elevationgain wrote:
doogie wrote:

How stupid do you have to be to not think advocating the establishment of a SEPERATE nation in North America for Black people is not divisive. If David Duke said he wanted to establish a White nation in North America, you don’t think that would be divisive?

How stupid do you have to be to not think advocating the establishment of a SEPARATE nation of TEXANS in North America, and the celebration of that advocation is not divisive to the rest of the country?

See where I’m coming from Doogie?

Probably not, but oh well.

You’re probably thinking why don’t I leave Texas out of this, but it’s a very similar argument when you consider it. I’d still use this argument even if you weren’t from there.

And yes, some of the angst is becaue I’m not the biggest fan of Texas, thus making me think in turn that you’re not the biggest fan of African Americans.

GAINER.[/quote]

Shit. I hoped I edited “seperate” before it got quoted. As soon as I hit send, realized I spelled it wrong. Shouldn’t call people stupid without spell checking first.

Do you still have a problem with Emancipation Day?

So, really, if David Duke started a holiday advocating starting a White nation in North America, you wouldn’t think it was divisive?

I live in deep South Texas. You don’t really understand the demographics of where I’m at, do you? Amoung my group of friends, there is one other white guy and one white girl. He and I are both married to Hispanics. She’s married to a Black guy. We’re having Xmas dinner with two couples that are Black male/Hispanic female and Black female/Hispanic male. What I’m not a fan of is militant anybody who advocates shedding my blood to start their own country.

We were talking about Kwanzaa last week at my wife’s Xmas party. Some drunk said, “Happy Kwanzaa” to a friend of mine and it started a whole freaking debate. Most opposed it because it is anti-Christian. A couple (who are really into their heritage) opposed it because it is anti-African.

71

[quote]doogie wrote:

The site used to be run directly by the United Slaves (Dr. Maulana Karenga’s group)and included the above statement and pledge. After this was pointed out on the internet (around 2000) and led to some bad press, it was quickly changed and now is just run by Dr. Maulana Karenga.[/quote]

I’ll take your word for it. I definitely agree that people should question whether they want to celebrate a holiday created by a man who preaches black unity yet was convicted of sexually assaulting two African American women in 1971.

As for forming Black Power groups, I can easily forgive this. If I had been a black growing up in racist America in the 40s and 50s, I can’t say I wouldn’t have done the same thing.

Maybe he’s changed, I don’t know, but right now the website doesn’t advocate anything that seems to be divisive or radical in nature, so I can’t really say I have a problem with it.

72

I thought this video was pretty funny; does this make me a racist? Just wondering…

73

[quote]CaptainLogic wrote:

As for forming Black Power groups, I can easily forgive this. If I had been a black growing up in racist America in the 40s and 50s, I can’t say I wouldn’t have done the same thing.

[/quote]

I completely agree with you.

74

[quote]Sabrina wrote:
Lorisco wrote:

So it is a holiday for values? It would have actually accomplished this if it was related to some actual African holiday or widely recognized religious or cultural practice actually done in Africa.

So the point is bro, that it doesn’t relate to Africa because it is not a practice/observance that is actually done in Africa. This is why Kwanza is not recognized in Africa either.

You two (you and doog) are like some sort of twilight zone reverse think tank.

Africa is comprised of 54 countries with a population of approximately 900,000,000 people speaking over eight hundred languages. Could you please define these “African cultural practices” you would appear to be the self-appointed mouthpiece for?

[/quote]

Sabrina, Babe, you haven’t been paying attention. We don’t have to define the African Cultural practices because supposedly Kwanaz has already done that. So as good Black person following the crowd all I have to do is whatever Kwanza states I should do because it accurate to African culture don’t you know!

Thanks for helping me prove my point that Kwanza cannot possibly represent anything accurate related to African culture.

75

[quote]Kuz wrote:
The fact that anyone is actually somehow getting offended at the idea of Kwanza is really the hilarious part. So what if it’s not DIRECTLY tied to an African holiday? Does it have to be? Would that somehow make it suddenly “authentic” and permissible?

And to those who wonder about holidays celebrated in this country by people of a certain descent, but not back in the country of their ancestry, I am stunned that everyone is missing a HUGE one:

St. Patrick’s Day.

Ireland - A fairly simple religious holiday.

U.S. - A license to wear a crapload of green, claim to be Irish and drink yourself into a coma.

Now, Ireland has recently sought to expand on the holiday a bit in an effort to drum up some tourism, but overall, it is not celebrated in any close fashion in Ireland as it is here in the U.S. as the ultimate symbol of Irish pride.

So does that mean we have to cancel St. Patty’s Day?[/quote]

Kwanza

Africa - No Holiday

America - No Holiday

It’s meaning? - Know one really knows but it makes us feel policitcaly correct somehow.

76

[quote]Varqanir wrote:
Lorisco wrote:

No other races celebrate a holiday that did not come from their country of origin or their current country or residence.

So what you are essentially telling us is that in order to celebrate Christmas, one would have to be a resident of or emigrant from the Holy Roman Empire?

December 25 was originally the birthday of the Roman sun god Mithra, and was celebrated with a Bacchanal orgy called Saturnalia, until Emperor Constantine converted to Christianity and declared this holiday the celebration of Jesus’ birth. How’s that for a made-up holiday?

Oh, but perhaps you say that your statement does not apply to Christmas, because it is now a Christian holiday, so it is proper to celebrate it in America, being as America is a Christian nation?

Well, you know how many Christians there are here in Japan? About as many Zoroastrians as there are over there in America. You know how many Japanese people celebrate Christmas? Almost all of them.

Lorisco, we already realize that you are an idiot. There is no need to keep proving it by making statements on topics about which you know nothing.

Grates et io Saturnalia.[/quote]

Unlike Kwanza, Christmas is celebrated around the world by people in most all counties. It is a Christian holiday. And yes my little rocket scientist, the US is a Christian Country. Why do you think it states “In God We Trust” on our money? Retard!

77

[quote]k.elkouhen wrote:
doogie wrote:
Why use corn (brough to Africa by white settlers)?

The following link might explain the use of corn.
http://www.slaveryinamerica.org/history/hs_es_seminole.htm

But I’ve got another question.

Why is it called Kwanzaa ?

Kwanzaa derives from the Swahili phrase “matunda ya kwanza”, meaning “first fruits”.

Nearly all african-americans come from West Africa : Ghana, Senegal, Gambie, Ivory Coast, Cameroun, Nigeria.

And Swahili is spoken on the East African coast from southern Somalia to northern Mozambique.

This just doesn’t make sense.[/quote]

And the light bulb goes on!

78

[quote]Lorisco wrote:
Kuz wrote:
The fact that anyone is actually somehow getting offended at the idea of Kwanza is really the hilarious part. So what if it’s not DIRECTLY tied to an African holiday? Does it have to be? Would that somehow make it suddenly “authentic” and permissible?

And to those who wonder about holidays celebrated in this country by people of a certain descent, but not back in the country of their ancestry, I am stunned that everyone is missing a HUGE one:

St. Patrick’s Day.

Ireland - A fairly simple religious holiday.

U.S. - A license to wear a crapload of green, claim to be Irish and drink yourself into a coma.

Now, Ireland has recently sought to expand on the holiday a bit in an effort to drum up some tourism, but overall, it is not celebrated in any close fashion in Ireland as it is here in the U.S. as the ultimate symbol of Irish pride.

So does that mean we have to cancel St. Patty’s Day?

Kwanza

Africa - No Holiday

America - No Holiday

It’s meaning? - Know one really knows but it makes us feel policitcaly correct somehow.

[/quote]

Wow… that’s just missing the point. It’s obviously a holiday or celebration to SOME people… otherwise we wouldn’t be having this entire discussion, now would we?

People asked for a situation where an ethnic group celebrates a holiday here in the U.S. that is not celebrated back in the land of their ancestry. I provided it. What’s so hard to understand about that?

79

My, my. You missed the point completely. I am Jack’s total lack of surprise.

Varqanir’s rebuttal: Many races celebrate Christmas, even though it is a holiday that did not originate from their country of residence or origin.

Varqanir, smiling: Isn’t that what I just said? And the Japanese, most of whom are not Christian, celebrate it as well, which further invalidates your statement.

Varqanir, truly amused by now: First off, I neither affirmed nor denied that the US is a Christian nation. The millions of Muslims, Jews, Buddhists, Hindus, Sikhs, Rastafarians and atheists living in America might have something to say about the subject, but it is beside the point.

No, what amuses me is that as evidence of your claim that the US is a “Christian Country”, you exhibit the “In God We Trust” motto on American currency. Has it ever occurred to you that believers of other religions beside Christianity might also trust in God?

Varqanir, reeling from this witheringly clever retort: Ach, laddie! Ye cut me to the quick! I’ll say nae more.

Except, perhaps, that I truly do pity you. I would hate to have to go through life with your level of perception and understanding.

80

[quote]Lorisco wrote:
Varqanir wrote:
Lorisco wrote:

No other races celebrate a holiday that did not come from their country of origin or their current country or residence.

So what you are essentially telling us is that in order to celebrate Christmas, one would have to be a resident of or emigrant from the Holy Roman Empire?

December 25 was originally the birthday of the Roman sun god Mithra, and was celebrated with a Bacchanal orgy called Saturnalia, until Emperor Constantine converted to Christianity and declared this holiday the celebration of Jesus’ birth. How’s that for a made-up holiday?

Oh, but perhaps you say that your statement does not apply to Christmas, because it is now a Christian holiday, so it is proper to celebrate it in America, being as America is a Christian nation?

Well, you know how many Christians there are here in Japan? About as many Zoroastrians as there are over there in America. You know how many Japanese people celebrate Christmas? Almost all of them.

Lorisco, we already realize that you are an idiot. There is no need to keep proving it by making statements on topics about which you know nothing.

Grates et io Saturnalia.

Unlike Kwanza, Christmas is celebrated around the world by people in most all counties. It is a Christian holiday. And yes my little rocket scientist, the US is a Christian Country. Why do you think it states “In God We Trust” on our money? Retard!

[/quote]

If you think the US is a “Christian country” then you have some studying to do. Most of the founding fathers were deists, if they indeed had belief. And while the country was certainly has a distinct Judeo-Christian heritage, it was also heavily influenced by several varieties of Enlightenment thinking in Europe, and by the radical Whigs of early 18th Century England.

P.S. The retard at the end of the statement is a nice touch, though.