CEO Pay On The Rise...Shocking!

[quote]Inner Hulk wrote:

The problem lies in the fact though, that there’s a distinct difference between wealth and ridiculous excess. No man should have a billion dollars. No one. Not one single person. There’s no reason for such concentrated amounts of money.

[/quote]

This reasoning has one distinct flaw. It sounds like you think they have it all in their pocket, or in an easy access bank account. Most of the money like this is tied up in stocks, real estate, or other assets. Trump has a lot of money tied up in real estate, so he cannot just sell it tomorrow, and give it away.

If Gates were to sell too much of his Microsoft empire, another person may end up buying a controlling interest.

But even if they did have it all in some checking account, who are you to decide what is too much? They did not get there by accident, and they didn’t spend their weekends bullshitting in the bars.

Also if a person is told they are only allowed to make a certain amount, does that not mean their company must shut down if they made that in the first month? 11 months with employees out of work, and potential shortages of the product in question.

Seriously why is this anybody business? Too often the same people who say, “you have no right to say what goes on in my bedroom!” will turn around and say, “I have a right to say what goes on in your wallet.”

What hypocrisy. Without bringing in other people, why is a person not allowed to have massive wealth? But the poor? Again without bringing in other people. This is not a question of how he will use it, nor of how he got it, it is a question of why he is not allowed to have it.

Soup kitchen? Sounds like you are getting your beliefs about the poor from movies. I’ve seen some of these food distribution centers, and they ain’t given out soup. (And many of the recipients ain’t poor.)[quote]

As for my economic doom scenario, I meant that overpayed and concentrated wealth played a part. Small wages for the majority of Americans has led to the buy now pay later escapade which will eventually burst. [/quote]

Uh, no. This is related to the emotional IQ, and a big determining factor for wealth. This buy now pay later scenario is why so many people are not wealthy. It may be the single biggest factor that keeps Americans from being wealthy. Gee, I can’t afford to buy this, so I will pay an 18% (or more) premium so I can have it now.

What a great idea. How many people are still paying on the meal they ate months ago? Blaming others for your own financial foolishness is just scapegoating.[quote]

Also, companies with excessively compensated CEO’s have shown to hurt productivity among their work force.[/quote] It has? Where? [quote]Count that in with the fact that so many companies are sending US work offshores to cut employer costs and to avoid certain taxes, this goes back to meager income among a lot of Americans. US production is dropping, imports are rising, exports dropping, and the dollar is dropping against the yen and euro. How is this not a set up for economic disaster??[/quote]

Why do they always bring up outsourcing, while ignoring insourcing? (My spell checker doesn’t even know the word.) I don’t think US production is falling. Plus many people just do not understand about trade at all, The purpose of trade is not to sell our shit, its to get their shit. (Notice my eloquent language?) Rising imports are actually a sign of a good economy. And the dollar is being manipulated.

Clinton did it, and Bush is doing it too. A weaker dollar makes American products more attractive, and imports less so. You should be cheering for a weaker dollar as it will support less imports, and more exports.

I am not worried about the trade deficit. I am worried about the Federal Debt. The true debt, not the BS number they keep giving us.[quote]

Then again, there’s a possibility I have no idea what I’m talking about as I will admit my knowledge in this area is pretty limited. I’m just going on what I have read. Plus, I just know that someone having a bank account reading 500 million dollars is just wrong when my city’s poverty rate is higher than that of the state and national average and rising. I see too many people suffering while too many have so much to spare. It’s not right.

When is mankind going to progress?[/quote]

When we quit trying to solve the worlds problems in foolish ways. I have known poor, been poor, and married poor. The single biggest mistake I made was accepting help from my parents.

Here is an analogy we should all understand. Lets say you were going to do the bench press. You lay down under the weight, and another person grabs the bar, and does half the lifting for you. How is this going to help you get stronger? This is exactly what we are doing right now.

It’s the same in life. I avoid elevators, and get annoyed when people do not walk up the escalator in front of me. Too many people want it to be easy. The government is spending tons of money to take away the school of hard knocks. They are keeping people week, lifting the weight for them.

Then there are the people who know how to work the system, and they are a much larger portion of the â¿¿poorâ¿¿ then you think. There are plenty of ways to get paid under the table, and some of them actually legal. I have known people who used to budget out exactly how much they spent at the grocery store, only because they wanted the total to end in a nickel or less. This gave them as much as 99 cents of change out of their food stamps.

And that would mean splitting up the purchases between the whole family, and going to the store more often. And then their cigarettes or booze were indirectly covered by food stamps. This is one of the reasons they went to the cards. No more change.

Not to mention the fact that many of the poor are addicted to something or other. I am not saying being poor causes a person to become and addict. I am saying being an addict makes a person poor. I guarantee we should not be giving money to these people.

Maybe not helping people, or helping people less, makes people like me sound mean, rude, and even evil. But it may be the best thing we could do for a person, not helping them.

Seriously I do believe it is good to help people, but too often what is being done turns into codependence.

[quote]Inner Hulk wrote:
I mentioned poverty because when I mentioned starving people, I was speaking on a global scale. Considering how interconnected and interdependent nations and businesses now are on each other, I included people from other nations. Since the US was specified I turned to poverty levels. When I think of people, I think of all people, not just those in the US.[/quote]

We can’t solve global poverty by giving money away. The best progress is made by having people help themselves.

In Africa, a lot of local farmers have been bankrupted by UN Food Aid programs. Who can sell his crops when he has to compete against “free?”

Similarly, when we pay for infrastructures, what often happens is that no one local has the know-how to perform maintenance on the installations, nor access to parts to repair them and eventually, they break and the local populations are back to square one.

There is no easy solution to that problem, but one thing is for sure: Giving money away rarely really helps someone. If it did, you wouldn’t have people who live their entire lives on welfare.

You can actually survive on less than you think, if you really cut it down to basics (lodging, clothing and food). No TV (save the cable subscription), no internet (save the ISP monthly payment, get access from the local library) etc.

Buying a home away from large population centers will be less expensive and you’ll probably get a larger property for the same money. You can buy clothes used for pennies or a fraction of the initial costs, etc.

[quote]Also, as I said earlier, I have no problem with people accumulating wealth. Many deserve it, especially those who are ambitious enough to start their own companies and put in the hard work and dedication to be successful. Great. Splendid. Fan-fucking-tastic.

The problem lies in the fact though, that there’s a distinct difference between wealth and ridiculous excess. No man should have a billion dollars. No one. Not one single person. There’s no reason for such concentrated amounts of money. Not when health care is too expensive for so many, not when the US government is too easily swayed by dollar signs, not when many have to line up at the soup kitchen.[/quote]

Why? Where do we put the line? A billion? 100 millions? If someone has an idea that can make him billions (ie. Microsoft) why should we artificially cap that success?

Some of the technological progress we enjoy is the fruit of billions invested in R&D. A microprocessor fabrication plant costs multiple billions of dollars to develop and build. Artificially limiting capital available would simply keep us back.

High tech health care is similarly expensive. How much do you think it cost to develop the first MRI machine? The first electronic microscope? etc. Very few people actually sit on their billions and do nothing with them. Most of them invest in companies and various other pursuit that make capital available for research and for things like loans, etc. that let the economy work and create more wealth.

A lot of people misuse credit, that’s true. But as for small wages, no one is being forced at gun point to work a low paying wage. Education is provided “free” in most Western countries, and everyone should at least get enough education to be able to read, write and do basic arithmetic.

If people don’t like working low paying jobs, they can put in the effort into developing some skills that will make them able to get a better salary. Why would a CEO limit his pay to one million a year and pay his janitors $200,000? Anyone taken off the street can push a mop and clean toilets. There’s is no shortage of “skill” for that job, so the offer far exceeds the demand and insures that that kind of low-skill job will always be low pay.

But the flipside of globalization is that it’s improving the quality of life in foreign countries. A lot of Indians are making better wages doing our technical support than they could otherwise dream of. As their level of life increases, they’ll want better wages too. The difficult period, for us, is that time until they reach a level of life comparable to ours. It might take 30-50 years, and during that time, jobs will be lost here to go over there.

Isn’t there a contradiction in your arguments? On one hand you want to help the global poor, but on the other you don’t want western corporations to give them jobs?

The problem with global economics (or pretty much any other subject matter) is that you can find books and articles to support just about any viewpoint you want.

Personally, I go from basic principles: People should be allowed to keep the fruits of their labors; should be allowed to enter freely into contracts and the government should try and keep out of as much business as possible.

Someone who has 500 millions, unless he stole them, has probably contributed something back to society. He probably has created many jobs and might run a company that allows thousands of employees to shelter, clothe and feed their families.

His 500 million his most likely invested in other companies, making capital available for various ventures that increase wealth.

I think your anger comes from looking at personal wealth in a vacuum. You have to consider the whole picture.

Yeah, our poor people are really struggling over here. If only those greedy CEO’s would give back more of their income then our poor could upgrade to Blu-ray or HD DVD.

[quote]orion wrote:
Inner Hulk wrote:

When is mankind going to progress?

Probably when they begin to understand that someone with 500 million on his bank account has no choice but to invest it and thereby creating wealth and jobs.

Any attempt to get in his way, i.e. redistribute his wealth, will keep us longer in the Dark Ages.

[/quote]

That makes way too much sense.

[quote]kelleyb wrote:
Yeah, our poor people are really struggling over here. If only those greedy CEO’s would give back more of their income then our poor could upgrade to Blu-ray or HD DVD. [/quote]

Most poor adults create their own situation by making poor decisions every day. Next time you see a poor person, observe him.

Maybe even talk to him. They tend to have an attitude of “I shouldn’t have to work! Fucking rich people should just give me money god damn it. What do they know about real work? Hell, I clean toilets for a living and don’t care to apply myself to something better!”

You get what you put in. Some people are lucky, but even they have to have some sense and the know how to keep their finances rolling.

[quote]Inner Hulk wrote:

As for half of those in poverty owning a home, I call bullshit. As do I for the family raising 7 children on 35k. Do there children survive solely on ramen noodles and other diabetic inducing diet styles? Sure, I could survive on 5k a year, it just means I’m going to die very young.[/quote]

How can you call bullshit? Did you go and actually watch the news clip on the family, which shows how they shop and plan for dinner? Or are you just winging it?

Instead of “calling bullshit” and ignoring the information provided for you, grow up and try and learn something before opining on it.

Truly.

[quote]texasguy1 wrote:

Most poor adults create their own situation by making poor decisions every day. Next time you see a poor person, observe him.

Maybe even talk to him. They tend to have an attitude of “I shouldn’t have to work! Fucking rich people should just give me money god damn it. What do they know about real work? Hell, I clean toilets for a living and don’t care to apply myself to something better!”

You get what you put in. Some people are lucky, but even they have to have some sense and the know how to keep their finances rolling. [/quote]

Exactly! I had a job selling insurance throughout the state (AR) and in some regions I was amazed at the ass backwards priorities some people had. I would be in a family’s filthy roach infested home with brown water stains on the ceiling and sagging shingle on the roof, but there would be a brand new Escalade in the driveway. Depreciable assets are not the way to build wealth.

Inner Hulk,

Why not find a nice communist/socialist country to move to? It sounds like you’re awefully bothered by all of this filthy capitalism. “It’s not fair!”, “they make too much money!”, “there should be a limit!”, “blah”, “blah”.

What a load of bullshit.

Ya know, I’m watching the game right now and the Colts are starting to open up on the Saints. Perhaps there should be a limit on points. Good grief.

http://www.nam.org/s_nam/doc1.asp?CID=14&DID=239206

2007 NAM Labor Day Report: Wages on the Rise

The National Association of Manufacturers�?? 10th Annual Labor Day Report provides a snapshot of the past year�??s economic trends as they relate to American workers. The 2007 report highlights how rising incomes are cushioning the impact of the housing downturn.

With the unemployment rate at just 4.6 percent, the report shows that worker pay is on the rise. Over the past year, 82 percent of the private sector workforce received real wage gains �?? the broadest gain in real wages in 7 years.

[quote]bigflamer wrote:
Inner Hulk,

Why not find a nice communist/socialist country to move to? It sounds like you’re awefully bothered by all of this filthy capitalism. “It’s not fair!”, “they make too much money!”, “there should be a limit!”, “blah”, “blah”.

What a load of bullshit.

Ya know, I’m watching the game right now and the Colts are starting to open up on the Saints. Perhaps there should be a limit on points. Good grief.[/quote]

It isn’t fair that Indy has 24 more points than NO. The points should be shared equally.

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
bigflamer wrote:
Inner Hulk,

Why not find a nice communist/socialist country to move to? It sounds like you’re awefully bothered by all of this filthy capitalism. “It’s not fair!”, “they make too much money!”, “there should be a limit!”, “blah”, “blah”.

What a load of bullshit.

Ya know, I’m watching the game right now and the Colts are starting to open up on the Saints. Perhaps there should be a limit on points. Good grief.

It isn’t fair that Indy has 24 more points than NO. The points should be shared equally.[/quote]

No one should be allowed to have 34 points. The Colts score too many points. What’s the point in having that many?

The system is fucked up.

[quote]Inner Hulk wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
Fair? Life isn’t fair. If you don’t like it don’t work for them, buy from or invest their companies.

How cliche.

If you lived with a 100 people on an island and one group of 4 people found all the fresh water and food, you’d have no problem with them rationing it out in extremely small amounts to the rest of the 96 people?

I can’t understand people like you. No one should have millions of dollars while people are starving. If you believe otherwise, you’re insane.[/quote]

Too right!

[quote]Inner Hulk wrote:
Too many posts…

I mentioned poverty because when I mentioned starving people, I was speaking on a global scale. Considering how interconnected and interdependent nations and businesses now are on each other, I included people from other nations. Since the US was specified I turned to poverty levels. When I think of people, I think of all people, not just those in the US.

As for half of those in poverty owning a home, I call bullshit. As do I for the family raising 7 children on 35k. Do there children survive solely on ramen noodles and other diabetic inducing diet styles? Sure, I could survive on 5k a year, it just means I’m going to die very young.

Also, as I said earlier, I have no problem with people accumulating wealth. Many deserve it, especially those who are ambitious enough to start their own companies and put in the hard work and dedication to be successful. Great. Splendid. Fan-fucking-tastic.

The problem lies in the fact though, that there’s a distinct difference between wealth and ridiculous excess. No man should have a billion dollars. No one. Not one single person. There’s no reason for such concentrated amounts of money. Not when health care is too expensive for so many, not when the US government is too easily swayed by dollar signs, not when many have to line up at the soup kitchen.

As for my economic doom scenario, I meant that overpayed and concentrated wealth played a part. Small wages for the majority of Americans has led to the buy now pay later escapade which will eventually burst. Also, companies with excessively compensated CEO’s have shown to hurt productivity among their work force. Count that in with the fact that so many companies are sending US work offshores to cut employer costs and to avoid certain taxes, this goes back to meager income among a lot of Americans. US production is dropping, imports are rising, exports dropping, and the dollar is dropping against the yen and euro. How is this not a set up for economic disaster??

Then again, there’s a possibility I have no idea what I’m talking about as I will admit my knowledge in this area is pretty limited. I’m just going on what I have read. Plus, I just know that someone having a bank account reading 500 million dollars is just wrong when my city’s poverty rate is higher than that of the state and national average and rising. I see too many people suffering while too many have so much to spare. It’s not right.

When is mankind going to progress?[/quote]

Good rant, Hulk. I don’t care what the rest of the jaded, greedy, or compassionless ‘grown ups’ might argue. They can sit on their high horses all they like. You are saying what is right and I see things and feel exactly the same way.

As a solution, I don’t believe in Communism as an alternative, or that the filthy rich should have their money taken off them by force, but I do think that somehow there HAS to be an equalizer, because this world is way out of balance, and it has to come from WITHIN those with the money and power to make a difference. It has to be channelled in the right directions as well, and not just funnelled off blindly to whatever charities are around.

I don’t believe in charities, what good have they done? Not enough. I hardly see what they do. It’s infinitesimal compared to the suffering in the world.

I believe in direct assistance to those in need, provided in an effective way to a problem, that will make a lasting difference.