Celebrating Secession?

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
281

DD, I have no qualms with your argument, except for one thing: taxation and slavery are miles apart. I’m not going to deny that there are similarities between the two and that taxation can be a bad thing. But the MAJOR difference that you and others fail to realize is that slavery is inherently bad, whereas taxation is not.

There is absolutely NOTHING good about slavery for those who are enslaved, not even the providing of clothing, food or shelter, because it is provided, not earned. I’m sure someone as conservative as you are can understand the value in earning rather than having something provided. I certainly do.

There are bad things about taxation and we could argue until this thread is shut down about what those bad things are and how bad they are. But you cannot argue with any merit that there aren’t also some good things about taxation.

282

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:
Slaves were a cheap commodity. If you have a cheap pair of shoes that can be replaced for 20 or 30 bucks, do you bother with taking extra good care of them, or do you just wear them until they’re no good anymore, toss 'em out and get a new pair?[/quote]

So cheap in fact that EVERYBODY owned some – just like family pets, huh?

Hahahahaha!

You really have no clue.[/quote]

Obviously I meant cheap for those who had a need for them. Slaves were owned by the rich and were nothing more than property and an investment in their plantations. Given this, yes slaves were cheap, especially given the return on the investment that they represented.

By the way, you still haven’t answered those questions I posed to you earlier. Still letting Murray Rothbard do your talking for you? Or are you going to answer them yourself, which would require you to think for yourself? Perhaps you haven’t answered them because you have no answer.[/quote]

You’re lame. How long does it take to profit from a slave? Keep in mind they are not born with the ability to labor. They required production to a bare minimum of laboring capacity.

They were no cheaper than tractors are today. Moron.

No one does my thinking for me. I have done my homework but you are lazy and you fail.[/quote]

Your failure to answer those questions is revealing. You have no answer, plain and simple. If you did, you would provide them in your own words, not a pdf file written by someone else that probably does not contain the words “Abraham Lincoln”. You’re right, I’m lazy. I don’t have the work ethic required to sift through that file and search for your answers for you.

So come on, what are YOUR answers to those questions? If you’re so smart, they should roll right off your tongue and directly address each one with clarity and precision. Let’s see what you’ve got.

283

[quote]DBCooper wrote:
DD, I have no qualms with your argument, except for one thing: taxation and slavery are miles apart. I’m not going to deny that there are similarities between the two and that taxation can be a bad thing. But the MAJOR difference that you and others fail to realize is that slavery is inherently bad, whereas taxation is not.

There is absolutely NOTHING good about slavery for those who are enslaved, not even the providing of clothing, food or shelter, because it is provided, not earned. I’m sure someone as conservative as you are can understand the value in earning rather than having something provided. I certainly do.

There are bad things about taxation and we could argue until this thread is shut down about what those bad things are and how bad they are. But you cannot argue with any merit that there aren’t also some good things about taxation.[/quote]

Your points are inherently subjective, and I disagree, I don’t know what else to say about it.

Edit:
You can argue taxes are a necessary evil, but even if necessary, they are still evil.

284

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:
DD, I have no qualms with your argument, except for one thing: taxation and slavery are miles apart. I’m not going to deny that there are similarities between the two and that taxation can be a bad thing. But the MAJOR difference that you and others fail to realize is that slavery is inherently bad, whereas taxation is not.

There is absolutely NOTHING good about slavery for those who are enslaved, not even the providing of clothing, food or shelter, because it is provided, not earned. I’m sure someone as conservative as you are can understand the value in earning rather than having something provided. I certainly do.

There are bad things about taxation and we could argue until this thread is shut down about what those bad things are and how bad they are. But you cannot argue with any merit that there aren’t also some good things about taxation.[/quote]

Your points are inherently subjective, and I disagree, I don’t know what else to say about it.

Edit:
You can argue taxes are a necessary evil, but even if necessary, they are still evil.[/quote]

There are varying degrees of evil. You yourself provided the now-infamous comparison: taxation=slavery. It does not equal slavery because, while they may be evil, they are not evil to anywhere remotely the same degree.

285

[quote]kamui wrote:

a fully functional human is the result of the collective effort of a group. [/quote]

That is the key and will not be recognized by some.

286

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]kamui wrote:

a fully functional human is the result of the collective effort of a group. [/quote]

Lie. A human born wild with no human contact is self aware. To be human is to be self aware. You can not claim that is the product of a group.[/quote]

A human born wild with no human contact is DEAD.

287

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:

[quote]Big Banana wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:
Also, anyone who would argue that food and shelter for slaves is a benefit might want to consider this: there were a lot of slaves who felt that anything that kept them alive longer, especially well before the Civil War when there wasn’t any sort of major movement to free them, was hardly beneficial to them. Only to their owners was it beneficial.[/quote]

Working slaves to death is quite common throughout history.[/quote]

It is?

How common?

If I owned slaves I’d be at least smart enough to not have to replace them too often.[/quote]

What if you couldn’t feed them? What if it were cheaper to raid a village, steal their goods and enslave new people every few months?

288

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
Are you guys aware that the US collects taxes from people based on citizenship, not location. And since you are by birth a citizen and it is both hard and expensive to renounce it, they essentially take money solely based on the fact that you were born. This “you can just leave” thing is total BS.[/quote]

Renounce citizenship. Many expat retires do it.

289

[quote]Big Banana wrote:

[quote]kamui wrote:

a fully functional human is the result of the collective effort of a group. [/quote]

That is the key and will not be recognized by some.[/quote]

Wrong. “A group”???

Seems to me this is way too simplistic and abstract – and therefore meaningless.

290

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:

[quote]Big Banana wrote:

[quote]kamui wrote:

a fully functional human is the result of the collective effort of a group. [/quote]

That is the key and will not be recognized by some.[/quote]

Wrong. “A group”???

Seems to me this is way too simplistic and abstract – and therefore meaningless.[/quote]

You have a hard time understanding words and concepts don’t you? Perhaps you should get off the computer and interact in real society. I suggest going back to high school (not a GED).

291

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:
So, property isn’t self aware, and is simply a concept. And since unanimous consent is impossible for what can or should be property, and how it should be distributed, even capitalism is slavery.[/quote]

“So, property isn’t self aware, and is simply a concept.” how exactly did you arrive at that deduction?

And the rest, we’ve been over. I answered all your qualms. and you had no further rebuttal. So you either need to come up with a rebuttal or accept my argument.[/quote]

I’ve rebutted your argument. You have none. I pulled back the covers on a philospohy only actually seen, believed, and practiced, by true-blue hermits. [/quote]

If by rebutted, you mean stop responding to that line of questioning, then yeah, you rebutted it.[/quote]

No, I mean flat out rebuttal. You lost the argument at the start.

292

[quote]Big Banana wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
Are you guys aware that the US collects taxes from people based on citizenship, not location. And since you are by birth a citizen and it is both hard and expensive to renounce it, they essentially take money solely based on the fact that you were born. This “you can just leave” thing is total BS.[/quote]

Renounce citizenship. Many expat retires do it.[/quote]

It is not that easy and requires money and me leaving my home and obtaining a home somewhere else. not to mention the irs can still claim to own you for 10 more years if you have some net worth.

293

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
“So, property isn’t self aware, and is simply a concept.” how exactly did you arrive at that deduction?
[/quote]

Well…it isn’t self-aware. [/quote]

What does it being self aware have to do with anything? I said self awareness proves the concept of self is an inherent natural thing and not invented like a group. How exactly are you twisting that to talk about the self awareness of property? This makes no sense.[/quote]

You actually just said it. If self awareness proves that self isn’t an invented thing, than property, and how it should be distributed, is clearly lacking that proof. It’s an invented concept that will never get unanimous consent, therefore, making ‘slaves’ of the dissenters of whichever property defining and distribution system is adopted. Well, at least by your pathetic standard as to what makes one a ‘slave.’

294

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Big Banana wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
Are you guys aware that the US collects taxes from people based on citizenship, not location. And since you are by birth a citizen and it is both hard and expensive to renounce it, they essentially take money solely based on the fact that you were born. This “you can just leave” thing is total BS.[/quote]

Renounce citizenship. Many expat retires do it.[/quote]

It is not that easy and requires money and me leaving my home and obtaining a home somewhere else. not to mention the irs can still claim to own you for 10 more years if you have some net worth.
[/quote]

If you don’t have the money then you are not paying taxes and probably benefiting from others.

You do have a choice in life. Don;t take a victim mentality.

295

[quote]Big Banana wrote:

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:

[quote]Big Banana wrote:

[quote]kamui wrote:

a fully functional human is the result of the collective effort of a group. [/quote]

That is the key and will not be recognized by some.[/quote]

Wrong. “A group”???

Seems to me this is way too simplistic and abstract – and therefore meaningless.[/quote]

You have a hard time understanding words and concepts don’t you? Perhaps you should get off the computer and interact in real society. I suggest going back to high school (not a GED).[/quote]

At least I know what is possible and is not possible with respect to human action.

I think it is your high school education that has fucked you up.

296

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
“So, property isn’t self aware, and is simply a concept.” how exactly did you arrive at that deduction?
[/quote]

Well…it isn’t self-aware. [/quote]

What does it being self aware have to do with anything? I said self awareness proves the concept of self is an inherent natural thing and not invented like a group. How exactly are you twisting that to talk about the self awareness of property? This makes no sense.[/quote]

You actually just said it. If self awareness proves that self isn’t an invented thing, than property, and how it should be distributed, is clearly lacking that proof. It’s an invented concept that will never get unanimous consent, therefore, making ‘slaves’ of the dissenters of whichever property defining and distribution system is adopted. Well, at least by your pathetic standard as to what makes one a ‘slave.’[/quote]

The inherent concept of self awareness validates the concept of self external to society. the existence of objects validates there existence. I have no idea where you got the idea that things have to be self aware to be real.

Yes, forced servitude is an odd definition of slave.

297

[quote]Big Banana wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Big Banana wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
Are you guys aware that the US collects taxes from people based on citizenship, not location. And since you are by birth a citizen and it is both hard and expensive to renounce it, they essentially take money solely based on the fact that you were born. This “you can just leave” thing is total BS.[/quote]

Renounce citizenship. Many expat retires do it.[/quote]

It is not that easy and requires money and me leaving my home and obtaining a home somewhere else. not to mention the irs can still claim to own you for 10 more years if you have some net worth.
[/quote]

If you don’t have the money then you are not paying taxes and probably benefiting from others.

You do have a choice in life. Don;t take a victim mentality.[/quote]

Uh what? if you have money, you aren’t paying taxes?

and slaves had a choice too, they could just not breath. Everyone ultimately has choices in oppression, being aloud some more choices doesn’t make it not oppression.

298

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
…
I think it is your high school education that has fucked you up.[/quote]

It is pretty obvious you didn’t get one and are very susceptible to believing bizarre shit you read on the internet.

I feel like I am talking to a crazy soapbox preacher when I read your posts.

299

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Big Banana wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Big Banana wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
Are you guys aware that the US collects taxes from people based on citizenship, not location. And since you are by birth a citizen and it is both hard and expensive to renounce it, they essentially take money solely based on the fact that you were born. This “you can just leave” thing is total BS.[/quote]

Renounce citizenship. Many expat retires do it.[/quote]

It is not that easy and requires money and me leaving my home and obtaining a home somewhere else. not to mention the irs can still claim to own you for 10 more years if you have some net worth.
[/quote]

If you don’t have the money then you are not paying taxes and probably benefiting from others.

You do have a choice in life. Don;t take a victim mentality.[/quote]

Uh what? if you have money, you aren’t paying taxes?

and slaves had a choice too, they could just not breath. Everyone ultimately has choices in oppression, being aloud some more choices doesn’t make it not oppression.[/quote]

Read it again. Don’t have money then don’t pay taxes.

Yep, victim mentality.

300

[quote]Big Banana wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Big Banana wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Big Banana wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
Are you guys aware that the US collects taxes from people based on citizenship, not location. And since you are by birth a citizen and it is both hard and expensive to renounce it, they essentially take money solely based on the fact that you were born. This “you can just leave” thing is total BS.[/quote]

Renounce citizenship. Many expat retires do it.[/quote]

It is not that easy and requires money and me leaving my home and obtaining a home somewhere else. not to mention the irs can still claim to own you for 10 more years if you have some net worth.
[/quote]

If you don’t have the money then you are not paying taxes and probably benefiting from others.

You do have a choice in life. Don;t take a victim mentality.[/quote]

Uh what? if you have money, you aren’t paying taxes?

and slaves had a choice too, they could just not breath. Everyone ultimately has choices in oppression, being aloud some more choices doesn’t make it not oppression.[/quote]

Read it again. Don’t have money then don’t pay taxes.

Yep, victim mentality.[/quote]

So the solution to not having my wealth taken by force is to not have any wealth. Nice.

That guy stole your tv? well, you shouldn’t have worked hard and bought a nice one. If only the police used your logic.