We are commanded to be no part of the world. To have traditions of pagan origins adopted into christian beliefs would go against that command, and therefore would be disapproved by God and Jesus. That is my point.
[/quote]
Does this mean you do not celebrate the birth of Christ in ANY form or fashion? Even if it be devoid of ANY pagan traditions? If so, Why?[/quote]
Thank you for asking, cueball. I do not celebrate the birth of Christ in any form. The reason for this is because it was not something that was requested of us in the Bible, nor does the Bible supply the necessary information for us to do such a thing.[/quote]
Do you feel then that commemorating Christ’s birth, or resurrection for that matter, is against God’s Word/the Bible?
Or another way, since the Bible doesn’t command it, you don’t feel any desire, spiritual or otherwise, to commemorate His birth or resurrection even if it was done in a fashion devoid of pagan traditions?
[quote]I do, however, commemorate the memorial of Christ’s death. - Luke Chapter 22.
This WAS a commission found in the Bible, and the exact day was given, Nisan 14, which this year fell on Tuesday, March 30th, 2010.[/quote]
Are referring to verse 19?[/quote]
You can choose to remember it, absolutely. That is a personal choice that I don’t believe is directly commanded against in the Bible.
When we commemorate what is mentioned, as you correctly brought out, at vs. 19, we do it devoid of any pagan traditions.[/quote]
You didn’t answer my question. Why do you choose not to commemorate either of the events I mentioned-devoid of pagan traditions?
I will return to this discussion Monday. I hope you will continue it with me then.
[/quote]
Because I don’t see a reason to. Is a reason really required? It is a neutral topic in the Bible.[/quote]
As you say, that is your personal choice. And as far as a reason goes, you have given me one-because the Bible doesn’t say I have to. Personally, this just sounds a bit like doing the bare minimum-I only do it if “I have to”.
But for me, as a Christian, even if the Bible doesn’t require me to commemorate Christ’s birth and resurrection, I am going to. Since it’s a neutral topic in the Bible, then why does it seem like you consider commemorating these events wrong?
And again, if it’s the pagan traditions holding you back, then don’t practice those.
I may have missed this somewhere, but do you consider yourself a Christian? And if you do, why don’t you feel a spiritual need to commemorate your Savior’s birth and resurrection-devoid of pagan tradition?
[/quote]
I know this is a short reply, but I will do a longer one at lunch.
I do consider myself a Christian. [/quote]
So then you believe that Jesus Christ is your Savior, yes?
We are commanded to be no part of the world. To have traditions of pagan origins adopted into christian beliefs would go against that command, and therefore would be disapproved by God and Jesus. That is my point.
[/quote]
Does this mean you do not celebrate the birth of Christ in ANY form or fashion? Even if it be devoid of ANY pagan traditions? If so, Why?[/quote]
Thank you for asking, cueball. I do not celebrate the birth of Christ in any form. The reason for this is because it was not something that was requested of us in the Bible, nor does the Bible supply the necessary information for us to do such a thing.[/quote]
Do you feel then that commemorating Christ’s birth, or resurrection for that matter, is against God’s Word/the Bible?
Or another way, since the Bible doesn’t command it, you don’t feel any desire, spiritual or otherwise, to commemorate His birth or resurrection even if it was done in a fashion devoid of pagan traditions?
[quote]I do, however, commemorate the memorial of Christ’s death. - Luke Chapter 22.
This WAS a commission found in the Bible, and the exact day was given, Nisan 14, which this year fell on Tuesday, March 30th, 2010.[/quote]
Are referring to verse 19?[/quote]
The fact that Christmas started out as a pagan religious event that had nothing to do with Jesus is why we don’t celebrate it.[/quote]
I didn’t ask him why he doesn’t celebrate Christmas. I asked him why he doesn’t commemorate Christ’s birth. SInce you don’t consider Christmas a valid celebration of that event, I’m sure you understand the distinction.
There is a bit of a contradiction here. If the commemoration doesn’t have any pagan traditions, or “of the world” traditions, how then is commemorating it “of the world”.
Also, how are wedding anniversaries, graduations, and retirements not “of this world”? It would seem a number of people “of this world” celebrate these events. And I’m sure many are athiest. So it’s OK to celebrate events athiests celebrate, but not events Christians celebrate?
I mean, people get married at courthouses all the time. Is celebrating that event, which was done in the absence of God, OK? And knowing that Godless people “of this world” celebrate these marriages, you still feel it’s OK to celebrate your marriage anniversaries?
Sounds like you are picking and choosing what you feel is OK to celebrate and what’s not, using “pagan traditions” as a blanket reason, rather than a specific reason. Do pagans not celebrate birthdays, retirement, graduations?
Please clear this up for me.[/quote]
People commemorate Jesus’ birth by celebrating Christmas. I forgot to mention Easter which is how people commemorate his resurrection. This too originally had nothing to do with the resurrection of Jesus.
The bad things of the world we don’t take part in. That doesn’t mean that everything there is to do in the world we don’t do. We work secular employment, we go to movies, attend sporting events, go on vacations and so forth. We don’t take Jesus’ statement of being seperate from the world to the extreme like the Quakers or Omish who set up their on society isolated from everyone else. The Bible doesn’t say to do that or to not do any and everything non-believers do. For example, Jesus attended a wedding and performed the first recorded miracle in the Bible by turning water into wine. Celebrating someones wedding, anniversary, retirement are individual events for one or two people that only family and friends observe. When I celebrate my parents wedding anniversary the whole world does not observe this event; only close family and friends do. But with religious holidays the whole world observes that particular event and these events are religious observances that were started by pagans.
Pagan origins IS the specific reason we don’t celebrate these religious holidays. We feel that because of the holidays originating with something bad and then being turned into a RELIGIOUS celebration which should be something good that this is something we should not partake of.
We are commanded to be no part of the world. To have traditions of pagan origins adopted into christian beliefs would go against that command, and therefore would be disapproved by God and Jesus. That is my point.
[/quote]
Does this mean you do not celebrate the birth of Christ in ANY form or fashion? Even if it be devoid of ANY pagan traditions? If so, Why?[/quote]
Thank you for asking, cueball. I do not celebrate the birth of Christ in any form. The reason for this is because it was not something that was requested of us in the Bible, nor does the Bible supply the necessary information for us to do such a thing.[/quote]
Do you feel then that commemorating Christ’s birth, or resurrection for that matter, is against God’s Word/the Bible?
Or another way, since the Bible doesn’t command it, you don’t feel any desire, spiritual or otherwise, to commemorate His birth or resurrection even if it was done in a fashion devoid of pagan traditions?
[quote]I do, however, commemorate the memorial of Christ’s death. - Luke Chapter 22.
This WAS a commission found in the Bible, and the exact day was given, Nisan 14, which this year fell on Tuesday, March 30th, 2010.[/quote]
Are referring to verse 19?[/quote]
You can choose to remember it, absolutely. That is a personal choice that I don’t believe is directly commanded against in the Bible.
When we commemorate what is mentioned, as you correctly brought out, at vs. 19, we do it devoid of any pagan traditions.[/quote]
You didn’t answer my question. Why do you choose not to commemorate either of the events I mentioned-devoid of pagan traditions?
I will return to this discussion Monday. I hope you will continue it with me then.
[/quote]
Because I don’t see a reason to. Is a reason really required? It is a neutral topic in the Bible.[/quote]
As you say, that is your personal choice. And as far as a reason goes, you have given me one-because the Bible doesn’t say I have to. Personally, this just sounds a bit like doing the bare minimum-I only do it if “I have to”.
But for me, as a Christian, even if the Bible doesn’t require me to commemorate Christ’s birth and resurrection, I am going to. Since it’s a neutral topic in the Bible, then why does it seem like you consider commemorating these events wrong?
And again, if it’s the pagan traditions holding you back, then don’t practice those.
I may have missed this somewhere, but do you consider yourself a Christian? And if you do, why don’t you feel a spiritual need to commemorate your Savior’s birth and resurrection-devoid of pagan tradition?
[/quote]
I know this is a short reply, but I will do a longer one at lunch.
I do consider myself a Christian. [/quote]
So then you believe that Jesus Christ is your Savior, yes?
We are commanded to be no part of the world. To have traditions of pagan origins adopted into christian beliefs would go against that command, and therefore would be disapproved by God and Jesus. That is my point.
[/quote]
Does this mean you do not celebrate the birth of Christ in ANY form or fashion? Even if it be devoid of ANY pagan traditions? If so, Why?[/quote]
Thank you for asking, cueball. I do not celebrate the birth of Christ in any form. The reason for this is because it was not something that was requested of us in the Bible, nor does the Bible supply the necessary information for us to do such a thing.[/quote]
Do you feel then that commemorating Christ’s birth, or resurrection for that matter, is against God’s Word/the Bible?
Or another way, since the Bible doesn’t command it, you don’t feel any desire, spiritual or otherwise, to commemorate His birth or resurrection even if it was done in a fashion devoid of pagan traditions?
[quote]I do, however, commemorate the memorial of Christ’s death. - Luke Chapter 22.
This WAS a commission found in the Bible, and the exact day was given, Nisan 14, which this year fell on Tuesday, March 30th, 2010.[/quote]
Are referring to verse 19?[/quote]
The fact that Christmas started out as a pagan religious event that had nothing to do with Jesus is why we don’t celebrate it.[/quote]
I didn’t ask him why he doesn’t celebrate Christmas. I asked him why he doesn’t commemorate Christ’s birth. SInce you don’t consider Christmas a valid celebration of that event, I’m sure you understand the distinction.
There is a bit of a contradiction here. If the commemoration doesn’t have any pagan traditions, or “of the world” traditions, how then is commemorating it “of the world”.
Also, how are wedding anniversaries, graduations, and retirements not “of this world”? It would seem a number of people “of this world” celebrate these events. And I’m sure many are athiest. So it’s OK to celebrate events athiests celebrate, but not events Christians celebrate?
I mean, people get married at courthouses all the time. Is celebrating that event, which was done in the absence of God, OK? And knowing that Godless people “of this world” celebrate these marriages, you still feel it’s OK to celebrate your marriage anniversaries?
Sounds like you are picking and choosing what you feel is OK to celebrate and what’s not, using “pagan traditions” as a blanket reason, rather than a specific reason. Do pagans not celebrate birthdays, retirement, graduations?
Please clear this up for me.[/quote]
People commemorate Jesus’ birth by celebrating Christmas. I forgot to mention Easter which is how people commemorate his resurrection. This too originally had nothing to do with the resurrection of Jesus. [/quote]
You have skirted my question and are playing with words. Yes, people do commemorate Christ’s birth with Christmas. But the point you are avoiding is that it CAN be done in a fashion devoid of “Christmas” pagan traditions and can be wholly spiritual in nature. Exactly why I made the distinction of Christmas vs. commemorating His Birth. You have chosen to only commemorate 1/3 of the three biggest events in the Christian faith, and for no LEGITIMATE reason (this being the cop out of it’s pagan!), other than the Bible doesn’t say I have to.
I ask again, If you are truly a Christian, why would you not feel a spiritual need to commemorate the birth and resurrection of your Savior, as those two events are crucial to everything Christians are about.
Let me say this, the birth and resurrection of Christ-IS NOT PAGAN! Why then do you not spiritually commemorate these events?
[quote]The bad things of the world we don’t take part in. That doesn’t mean that everything there is to do in the world we don’t do. We work secular employment, we go to movies, attend sporting events, go on vacations and so forth. We don’t take Jesus’ statement of being seperate from the world to the extreme like the Quakers or Omish who set up their on society isolated from everyone else. The Bible doesn’t say to do that or to not do any and everything non-believers do. For example, Jesus attended a wedding and performed the first recorded miracle in the Bible by turning water into wine. Celebrating someones wedding, anniversary, retirement are individual events for one or two people that only family and friends observe. When I celebrate my parents wedding anniversary the whole world does not observe this event; only close family and friends do. But with religious holidays the whole world observes that particular event and these events are religious observances that were started by pagans.
Pagan origins IS the specific reason we don’t celebrate these religious holidays. We feel that because of the holidays originating with something bad and then being turned into a RELIGIOUS celebration which should be something good that this is something we should not partake of. [/quote]
Again, I am not asking you why you do not celebrate “Christmas” or “Easter”. I am asking you why you don’t commemorate His birth or resurrection. You avoid this question by using the terms Christmas and Easter. The birth and resurrection, again, ARE NOT PAGAN! Why then do you not commemorate them?
I know this is a short reply, but I will do a longer one at lunch.
I do consider myself a Christian. By the way, are you making sure, as a Christian, that you are following first all the things that we have been commissioned specifically to do? Things such as preaching the Bible’s message throughout the earth and observing the memorial of Christ’s death?
These are some things that would take priority over any celebration of Christ’s birth or resurrection.[/quote]
I have to jump in on this one just to clarify. Are you saying that Jesus’ death is more imporatant than his resurrection?[/quote]
Which one was commissioned by Jesus to be observed, Death or Resurrection?
We are commanded to be no part of the world. To have traditions of pagan origins adopted into christian beliefs would go against that command, and therefore would be disapproved by God and Jesus. That is my point.
[/quote]
Does this mean you do not celebrate the birth of Christ in ANY form or fashion? Even if it be devoid of ANY pagan traditions? If so, Why?[/quote]
Thank you for asking, cueball. I do not celebrate the birth of Christ in any form. The reason for this is because it was not something that was requested of us in the Bible, nor does the Bible supply the necessary information for us to do such a thing.[/quote]
Do you feel then that commemorating Christ’s birth, or resurrection for that matter, is against God’s Word/the Bible?
Or another way, since the Bible doesn’t command it, you don’t feel any desire, spiritual or otherwise, to commemorate His birth or resurrection even if it was done in a fashion devoid of pagan traditions?
[quote]I do, however, commemorate the memorial of Christ’s death. - Luke Chapter 22.
This WAS a commission found in the Bible, and the exact day was given, Nisan 14, which this year fell on Tuesday, March 30th, 2010.[/quote]
Are referring to verse 19?[/quote]
The fact that Christmas started out as a pagan religious event that had nothing to do with Jesus is why we don’t celebrate it.[/quote]
I didn’t ask him why he doesn’t celebrate Christmas. I asked him why he doesn’t commemorate Christ’s birth. SInce you don’t consider Christmas a valid celebration of that event, I’m sure you understand the distinction.
There is a bit of a contradiction here. If the commemoration doesn’t have any pagan traditions, or “of the world” traditions, how then is commemorating it “of the world”.
Also, how are wedding anniversaries, graduations, and retirements not “of this world”? It would seem a number of people “of this world” celebrate these events. And I’m sure many are athiest. So it’s OK to celebrate events athiests celebrate, but not events Christians celebrate?
I mean, people get married at courthouses all the time. Is celebrating that event, which was done in the absence of God, OK? And knowing that Godless people “of this world” celebrate these marriages, you still feel it’s OK to celebrate your marriage anniversaries?
Sounds like you are picking and choosing what you feel is OK to celebrate and what’s not, using “pagan traditions” as a blanket reason, rather than a specific reason. Do pagans not celebrate birthdays, retirement, graduations?
Please clear this up for me.[/quote]
People commemorate Jesus’ birth by celebrating Christmas. I forgot to mention Easter which is how people commemorate his resurrection. This too originally had nothing to do with the resurrection of Jesus. [/quote]
You have skirted my question and are playing with words. Yes, people do commemorate Christ’s birth with Christmas. But the point you are avoiding is that it CAN be done in a fashion devoid of “Christmas” pagan traditions and can be wholly spiritual in nature. Exactly why I made the distinction of Christmas vs. commemorating His Birth. You have chosen to only commemorate 1/3 of the three biggest events in the Christian faith, and for no LEGITIMATE reason (this being the cop out of it’s pagan!), other than the Bible doesn’t say I have to.
I ask again, If you are truly a Christian, why would you not feel a spiritual need to commemorate the birth and resurrection of your Savior, as those two events are crucial to everything Christians are about.
Let me say this, the birth and resurrection of Christ-IS NOT PAGAN! Why then do you not spiritually commemorate these events?
[quote]The bad things of the world we don’t take part in. That doesn’t mean that everything there is to do in the world we don’t do. We work secular employment, we go to movies, attend sporting events, go on vacations and so forth. We don’t take Jesus’ statement of being seperate from the world to the extreme like the Quakers or Omish who set up their on society isolated from everyone else. The Bible doesn’t say to do that or to not do any and everything non-believers do. For example, Jesus attended a wedding and performed the first recorded miracle in the Bible by turning water into wine. Celebrating someones wedding, anniversary, retirement are individual events for one or two people that only family and friends observe. When I celebrate my parents wedding anniversary the whole world does not observe this event; only close family and friends do. But with religious holidays the whole world observes that particular event and these events are religious observances that were started by pagans.
Pagan origins IS the specific reason we don’t celebrate these religious holidays. We feel that because of the holidays originating with something bad and then being turned into a RELIGIOUS celebration which should be something good that this is something we should not partake of. [/quote]
Again, I am not asking you why you do not celebrate “Christmas” or “Easter”. I am asking you why you don’t commemorate His birth or resurrection. You avoid this question by using the terms Christmas and Easter. The birth and resurrection, again, ARE NOT PAGAN! Why then do you not commemorate them?
[/quote]
What would someone do to celebrate these events, devoid of all pagan elements?
We are commanded to be no part of the world. To have traditions of pagan origins adopted into christian beliefs would go against that command, and therefore would be disapproved by God and Jesus. That is my point.
[/quote]
Does this mean you do not celebrate the birth of Christ in ANY form or fashion? Even if it be devoid of ANY pagan traditions? If so, Why?[/quote]
Thank you for asking, cueball. I do not celebrate the birth of Christ in any form. The reason for this is because it was not something that was requested of us in the Bible, nor does the Bible supply the necessary information for us to do such a thing.[/quote]
Do you feel then that commemorating Christ’s birth, or resurrection for that matter, is against God’s Word/the Bible?
Or another way, since the Bible doesn’t command it, you don’t feel any desire, spiritual or otherwise, to commemorate His birth or resurrection even if it was done in a fashion devoid of pagan traditions?
[quote]I do, however, commemorate the memorial of Christ’s death. - Luke Chapter 22.
This WAS a commission found in the Bible, and the exact day was given, Nisan 14, which this year fell on Tuesday, March 30th, 2010.[/quote]
Are referring to verse 19?[/quote]
You can choose to remember it, absolutely. That is a personal choice that I don’t believe is directly commanded against in the Bible.
When we commemorate what is mentioned, as you correctly brought out, at vs. 19, we do it devoid of any pagan traditions.[/quote]
You didn’t answer my question. Why do you choose not to commemorate either of the events I mentioned-devoid of pagan traditions?
I will return to this discussion Monday. I hope you will continue it with me then.
[/quote]
Because I don’t see a reason to. Is a reason really required? It is a neutral topic in the Bible.[/quote]
As you say, that is your personal choice. And as far as a reason goes, you have given me one-because the Bible doesn’t say I have to. Personally, this just sounds a bit like doing the bare minimum-I only do it if “I have to”.
But for me, as a Christian, even if the Bible doesn’t require me to commemorate Christ’s birth and resurrection, I am going to. Since it’s a neutral topic in the Bible, then why does it seem like you consider commemorating these events wrong?
And again, if it’s the pagan traditions holding you back, then don’t practice those.
I may have missed this somewhere, but do you consider yourself a Christian? And if you do, why don’t you feel a spiritual need to commemorate your Savior’s birth and resurrection-devoid of pagan tradition?
[/quote]
I know this is a short reply, but I will do a longer one at lunch.
I do consider myself a Christian. [/quote]
So then you believe that Jesus Christ is your Savior, yes?
[/quote]
Yes I do. [/quote]
Then you believe, as John 14:6 states, " I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me?
I know this is a short reply, but I will do a longer one at lunch.
I do consider myself a Christian. By the way, are you making sure, as a Christian, that you are following first all the things that we have been commissioned specifically to do? Things such as preaching the Bible’s message throughout the earth and observing the memorial of Christ’s death?
These are some things that would take priority over any celebration of Christ’s birth or resurrection.[/quote]
I have to jump in on this one just to clarify. Are you saying that Jesus’ death is more imporatant than his resurrection?[/quote]
Which one was commissioned by Jesus to be observed, Death or Resurrection?[/quote]
Without his Resurrection his death would have been no different than you or I dying. Go figure.
I know this is a short reply, but I will do a longer one at lunch.
I do consider myself a Christian. By the way, are you making sure, as a Christian, that you are following first all the things that we have been commissioned specifically to do? Things such as preaching the Bible’s message throughout the earth and observing the memorial of Christ’s death?
These are some things that would take priority over any celebration of Christ’s birth or resurrection.[/quote]
I have to jump in on this one just to clarify. Are you saying that Jesus’ death is more imporatant than his resurrection?[/quote]
Which one was commissioned by Jesus to be observed, Death or Resurrection?[/quote]
Without his Resurrection his death would have been no different than you or I dying. Go figure.[/quote]
We are commanded to be no part of the world. To have traditions of pagan origins adopted into christian beliefs would go against that command, and therefore would be disapproved by God and Jesus. That is my point.
[/quote]
Does this mean you do not celebrate the birth of Christ in ANY form or fashion? Even if it be devoid of ANY pagan traditions? If so, Why?[/quote]
Thank you for asking, cueball. I do not celebrate the birth of Christ in any form. The reason for this is because it was not something that was requested of us in the Bible, nor does the Bible supply the necessary information for us to do such a thing.[/quote]
Do you feel then that commemorating Christ’s birth, or resurrection for that matter, is against God’s Word/the Bible?
Or another way, since the Bible doesn’t command it, you don’t feel any desire, spiritual or otherwise, to commemorate His birth or resurrection even if it was done in a fashion devoid of pagan traditions?
[quote]I do, however, commemorate the memorial of Christ’s death. - Luke Chapter 22.
This WAS a commission found in the Bible, and the exact day was given, Nisan 14, which this year fell on Tuesday, March 30th, 2010.[/quote]
Are referring to verse 19?[/quote]
The fact that Christmas started out as a pagan religious event that had nothing to do with Jesus is why we don’t celebrate it.[/quote]
I didn’t ask him why he doesn’t celebrate Christmas. I asked him why he doesn’t commemorate Christ’s birth. SInce you don’t consider Christmas a valid celebration of that event, I’m sure you understand the distinction.
There is a bit of a contradiction here. If the commemoration doesn’t have any pagan traditions, or “of the world” traditions, how then is commemorating it “of the world”.
Also, how are wedding anniversaries, graduations, and retirements not “of this world”? It would seem a number of people “of this world” celebrate these events. And I’m sure many are athiest. So it’s OK to celebrate events athiests celebrate, but not events Christians celebrate?
I mean, people get married at courthouses all the time. Is celebrating that event, which was done in the absence of God, OK? And knowing that Godless people “of this world” celebrate these marriages, you still feel it’s OK to celebrate your marriage anniversaries?
Sounds like you are picking and choosing what you feel is OK to celebrate and what’s not, using “pagan traditions” as a blanket reason, rather than a specific reason. Do pagans not celebrate birthdays, retirement, graduations?
Please clear this up for me.[/quote]
People commemorate Jesus’ birth by celebrating Christmas. I forgot to mention Easter which is how people commemorate his resurrection. This too originally had nothing to do with the resurrection of Jesus. [/quote]
You have skirted my question and are playing with words. Yes, people do commemorate Christ’s birth with Christmas. But the point you are avoiding is that it CAN be done in a fashion devoid of “Christmas” pagan traditions and can be wholly spiritual in nature. Exactly why I made the distinction of Christmas vs. commemorating His Birth. You have chosen to only commemorate 1/3 of the three biggest events in the Christian faith, and for no LEGITIMATE reason (this being the cop out of it’s pagan!), other than the Bible doesn’t say I have to.
I ask again, If you are truly a Christian, why would you not feel a spiritual need to commemorate the birth and resurrection of your Savior, as those two events are crucial to everything Christians are about.
Let me say this, the birth and resurrection of Christ-IS NOT PAGAN! Why then do you not spiritually commemorate these events?
[quote]The bad things of the world we don’t take part in. That doesn’t mean that everything there is to do in the world we don’t do. We work secular employment, we go to movies, attend sporting events, go on vacations and so forth. We don’t take Jesus’ statement of being seperate from the world to the extreme like the Quakers or Omish who set up their on society isolated from everyone else. The Bible doesn’t say to do that or to not do any and everything non-believers do. For example, Jesus attended a wedding and performed the first recorded miracle in the Bible by turning water into wine. Celebrating someones wedding, anniversary, retirement are individual events for one or two people that only family and friends observe. When I celebrate my parents wedding anniversary the whole world does not observe this event; only close family and friends do. But with religious holidays the whole world observes that particular event and these events are religious observances that were started by pagans.
Pagan origins IS the specific reason we don’t celebrate these religious holidays. We feel that because of the holidays originating with something bad and then being turned into a RELIGIOUS celebration which should be something good that this is something we should not partake of. [/quote]
Again, I am not asking you why you do not celebrate “Christmas” or “Easter”. I am asking you why you don’t commemorate His birth or resurrection. You avoid this question by using the terms Christmas and Easter. The birth and resurrection, again, ARE NOT PAGAN! Why then do you not commemorate them?
[/quote]
What would someone do to celebrate these events, devoid of all pagan elements? [/quote]
You tell me. You have obviously found a way to celebrate His death without pagan elements.
I know this is a short reply, but I will do a longer one at lunch.
I do consider myself a Christian. By the way, are you making sure, as a Christian, that you are following first all the things that we have been commissioned specifically to do? Things such as preaching the Bible’s message throughout the earth and observing the memorial of Christ’s death?
These are some things that would take priority over any celebration of Christ’s birth or resurrection.[/quote]
I have to jump in on this one just to clarify. Are you saying that Jesus’ death is more imporatant than his resurrection?[/quote]
Which one was commissioned by Jesus to be observed, Death or Resurrection?[/quote]
Without his Resurrection his death would have been no different than you or I dying. Go figure.[/quote]
OK, and what is your point?[/quote]
Wow. Seriously? I have read enough of your posts to know you are more intelligent than that. That point is crystal clear to ANY person claiming to call themselves Christian, which you have done.
What is the Good News? To me the Good News is that Jesus over came death through his ressurrection. We no longer have to live in fear of going to Hell.
16Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. 17When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. 18Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in[a] the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”
Jesus was worshipped by the disciples. How can this be, and did Jesus tell them to stop? No. Can you beleive that Jesus has all authority in heaven and on earth? He has more power than Jehovah. Oh yeah he is Jehovah.
Again, I am not asking you why you do not celebrate “Christmas” or “Easter”. I am asking you why you don’t commemorate His birth or resurrection. You avoid this question by using the terms Christmas and Easter. The birth and resurrection, again, ARE NOT PAGAN! Why then do you not commemorate them?
[/quote]
What would someone do to celebrate these events, devoid of all pagan elements? [/quote]
You tell me. You have obviously found a way to celebrate His death without pagan elements.
[/quote]
You do realize the Bible has given the celebration in the Bible to copy, right?
You are telling me that I should celebrate Christ’s Death and Resurrection, and then want me to find my own way of doing it? All with ZERO Biblical support? Is that correct?
Wow. Seriously? I have read enough of your posts to know you are more intelligent than that. That point is crystal clear to ANY person claiming to call themselves Christian, which you have done.
[/quote]
[quote]dmaddox wrote:
What is the Good News? To me the Good News is that Jesus over came death through his ressurrection. We no longer have to live in fear of going to Hell.
16Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. 17When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. 18Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in[a] the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”
Jesus was worshipped by the disciples. How can this be, and did Jesus tell them to stop? No. Can you beleive that Jesus has all authority in heaven and on earth? He has more power than Jehovah. Oh yeah he is Jehovah.[/quote]
If you feel that is the message, then obey Jesus’ command and preach it throughout the Earth.
[quote]dmaddox wrote:
What is the Good News? To me the Good News is that Jesus over came death through his ressurrection. We no longer have to live in fear of going to Hell.
16Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. 17When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. 18Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in[a] the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”
Jesus was worshipped by the disciples. How can this be, and did Jesus tell them to stop? No. Can you beleive that Jesus has all authority in heaven and on earth? He has more power than Jehovah. Oh yeah he is Jehovah.[/quote]
If you feel that is the message, then obey Jesus’ command and preach it throughout the Earth.[/quote]
Christian believers are in the Billion range and are all over the world. I have visited South America where children have no clothes or shoes, and India where children have no food, and told people about My God. How far have you gone? Have you looked a child in the eyes who have not eaten or bathed for weeks? Who can not go to school because they were not born into the correct caste? You are too comfortable in the US where you have religious freedoms. I went in the name of Jesus to countries where people are killed for their beliefs. What have you done? Going door to door does not count. Writing on an internet forum also does not count.
[quote]dmaddox wrote:
What is the Good News? To me the Good News is that Jesus over came death through his ressurrection. We no longer have to live in fear of going to Hell.
16Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. 17When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. 18Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in[a] the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”
Jesus was worshipped by the disciples. How can this be, and did Jesus tell them to stop? No. Can you beleive that Jesus has all authority in heaven and on earth? He has more power than Jehovah. Oh yeah he is Jehovah.[/quote]
If you feel that is the message, then obey Jesus’ command and preach it throughout the Earth.[/quote]
Christian believers are in the Billion range and are all over the world. I have visited South America where children have no clothes or shoes, and India where children have no food, and told people about My God. How far have you gone? Have you looked a child in the eyes who have not eaten or bathed for weeks? Who can not go to school because they were not born into the correct caste? You are too comfortable in the US where you have religious freedoms. I went in the name of Jesus to countries where people are killed for their beliefs. What have you done? Going door to door does not count. Writing on an internet forum also does not count.[/quote]
Keep it up. I encourage you. Jesus commission was to preach and make disciples. You don’t have to answer to me.
We are commanded to be no part of the world. To have traditions of pagan origins adopted into christian beliefs would go against that command, and therefore would be disapproved by God and Jesus. That is my point.
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Does this mean you do not celebrate the birth of Christ in ANY form or fashion? Even if it be devoid of ANY pagan traditions? If so, Why?[/quote]
Thank you for asking, cueball. I do not celebrate the birth of Christ in any form. The reason for this is because it was not something that was requested of us in the Bible, nor does the Bible supply the necessary information for us to do such a thing.[/quote]
Do you feel then that commemorating Christ’s birth, or resurrection for that matter, is against God’s Word/the Bible?
Or another way, since the Bible doesn’t command it, you don’t feel any desire, spiritual or otherwise, to commemorate His birth or resurrection even if it was done in a fashion devoid of pagan traditions?
[quote]I do, however, commemorate the memorial of Christ’s death. - Luke Chapter 22.
This WAS a commission found in the Bible, and the exact day was given, Nisan 14, which this year fell on Tuesday, March 30th, 2010.[/quote]
Are referring to verse 19?[/quote]
The fact that Christmas started out as a pagan religious event that had nothing to do with Jesus is why we don’t celebrate it.[/quote]
I didn’t ask him why he doesn’t celebrate Christmas. I asked him why he doesn’t commemorate Christ’s birth. SInce you don’t consider Christmas a valid celebration of that event, I’m sure you understand the distinction.
There is a bit of a contradiction here. If the commemoration doesn’t have any pagan traditions, or “of the world” traditions, how then is commemorating it “of the world”.
Also, how are wedding anniversaries, graduations, and retirements not “of this world”? It would seem a number of people “of this world” celebrate these events. And I’m sure many are athiest. So it’s OK to celebrate events athiests celebrate, but not events Christians celebrate?
I mean, people get married at courthouses all the time. Is celebrating that event, which was done in the absence of God, OK? And knowing that Godless people “of this world” celebrate these marriages, you still feel it’s OK to celebrate your marriage anniversaries?
Sounds like you are picking and choosing what you feel is OK to celebrate and what’s not, using “pagan traditions” as a blanket reason, rather than a specific reason. Do pagans not celebrate birthdays, retirement, graduations?
Please clear this up for me.[/quote]
People commemorate Jesus’ birth by celebrating Christmas. I forgot to mention Easter which is how people commemorate his resurrection. This too originally had nothing to do with the resurrection of Jesus. [/quote]
You have skirted my question and are playing with words. Yes, people do commemorate Christ’s birth with Christmas. But the point you are avoiding is that it CAN be done in a fashion devoid of “Christmas” pagan traditions and can be wholly spiritual in nature. Exactly why I made the distinction of Christmas vs. commemorating His Birth. You have chosen to only commemorate 1/3 of the three biggest events in the Christian faith, and for no LEGITIMATE reason (this being the cop out of it’s pagan!), other than the Bible doesn’t say I have to.
I ask again, If you are truly a Christian, why would you not feel a spiritual need to commemorate the birth and resurrection of your Savior, as those two events are crucial to everything Christians are about.
Let me say this, the birth and resurrection of Christ-IS NOT PAGAN! Why then do you not spiritually commemorate these events?
[quote]The bad things of the world we don’t take part in. That doesn’t mean that everything there is to do in the world we don’t do. We work secular employment, we go to movies, attend sporting events, go on vacations and so forth. We don’t take Jesus’ statement of being seperate from the world to the extreme like the Quakers or Omish who set up their on society isolated from everyone else. The Bible doesn’t say to do that or to not do any and everything non-believers do. For example, Jesus attended a wedding and performed the first recorded miracle in the Bible by turning water into wine. Celebrating someones wedding, anniversary, retirement are individual events for one or two people that only family and friends observe. When I celebrate my parents wedding anniversary the whole world does not observe this event; only close family and friends do. But with religious holidays the whole world observes that particular event and these events are religious observances that were started by pagans.
Pagan origins IS the specific reason we don’t celebrate these religious holidays. We feel that because of the holidays originating with something bad and then being turned into a RELIGIOUS celebration which should be something good that this is something we should not partake of. [/quote]
Again, I am not asking you why you do not celebrate “Christmas” or “Easter”. I am asking you why you don’t commemorate His birth or resurrection. You avoid this question by using the terms Christmas and Easter. The birth and resurrection, again, ARE NOT PAGAN! Why then do you not commemorate them?
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The fact that certain Christian feasts days aligning with paganism making them pagan in nature is backwards. When you are working on converting a people you cannot go into their societies and just totally rearrange their lives and customs. It’s a good way to get kicked out. Belief and faith were important not the rituals, which early Christians understood well. Rather than change their customs they work with them and made their “Pagan” holidays Holy, not celebrate paganism. Use pagan parties to celebrate Godâ?¦.Why not? They people get to keep their parties, but instead of the solstice or some other reason, they celebrate God. If you want to throw lights on a tree and sing Frosty the Snowman, who cares? Nobody knows when Jesus was actually born, so Christmas is the celebration of Jesus’ birthday, even if it’s not the actual day.
Bottom line, early Christians were trying to bring people to Christ, if the societies traditions were not contradictory, why not let them use that to celebrate Jesus? If they want to party In the winter, why not party because of Jesus?
If it were an annual orgy or something, then things would be different.