Catholic Q & A

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Brother Chris wrote:

Let’s call it a “bridge” for clarity purposes. There is only one bridge between God and man and that is Jesus Christ. Why would you or anyone try to communicate with those who have passed on instead of simply praying through Christ? Is this just church dogma - Like long ago when the Catholics would not eat meat on Friday? [/quote]

Okay, there is one Bridge to the Father. Still not seeing a problem.[/quote]

Then why ask those who have past on to interced when the Bible says there is ONE “bridge” between God and man?
[/quote]

Because as the Bible points out that God listens to those that are righteous. Those in Heaven are righteous, therefore I ask them to pray for me. Just like I ask the little old lady from Church to pray for me, because 1) I know she’ll pray for me, and 2) she’s more righteous than I am. Same with the Saints…except they are even more righteous than the little old lady, and they can keep their full concentration on praying, unlike the little old lady that bakes cookies every morning for daily mass.

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Brother Chris wrote:

Let’s call it a “bridge” for clarity purposes. There is only one bridge between God and man and that is Jesus Christ. Why would you or anyone try to communicate with those who have passed on instead of simply praying through Christ? Is this just church dogma - Like long ago when the Catholics would not eat meat on Friday? [/quote]

No, it’s Biblical. And, there was never dogma that Catholics weren’t allowed or would not eat meat on Friday.[/quote]

Where does it say in the Bible that one cannot eat meat on Firday? And if it’s there why does the Catholic church now sanction meat eating on friday?
[/quote]

You asked multiple questions, I answered them all. The first sentence answered that it is Biblical why we ask the Saints to pray on our behalf. The second sentence is saying that they are not Church dogma.

Fasting on Friday is Biblical, not necessarily the Friday part, but the fasting. We are called to fast. So, Catholics fast meat (and some just fast all day long!) on Friday because that is the day that Jesus was crucified.

The Holy Church sanctions meat on Friday, I’m not sure why, probably lack of fire in the belly. I understand that some folks have labor jobs and need to nourish themselves, but I work and drive rigs, and I lift weights/sprint hills. However, I still fast on Fridays myself, it’s a good time of penance and thanksgiving.

I’d advocate everyone to do a fast on Fridays, some people think I’m old fashioned because of that, and my reply, “Once right, always right.”

I’d also advocate a fast during Lent, as well.

About praying to the Saints (a.k.a. asking the saints to pray on our behalf). I pointed out that it was Biblical, so I’ll pull out the verses from the Bible.

Mark 12:26-7 And as for the dead being raised, have you not read in the book of Moses, in the passage about the bush, how God said to him, ‘I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? He is not God of the dead, but of the living’ you are quite wrong."

Since the Sadducees restricted biblical authority to the Pentateuch, Jesus deliberately draws from the Pentateuch to demonstrate the resurrection (Ex 3:6). The passage narrates how Yahweh revealed himself to Moses at the burning bush as the God of the deceased patriarchs: Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Their intimacy with God even after death proves the immortality of their souls (Wis 3:1) and so hints at the future resurrection of their bodies (Is 26:19).

Heb 12:1, Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us also lay aside every weight, and sin which clings so closely, and let us run with perseverance the race that is set before us

The heroes of the biblical history enumerated in Hebrews 11. They are pictured crowded into a stadium, looking down on believers still running the race of faith and urging them on to victory. At the finish line stands Jesus, waiting to reward us (12:2). Images of the faithful departed cheering us on hints at the communion and intercession of the saints. It shows that the Church in heaven is neither cut off from nor disinterested in the pilgrim Church on earth but is actively solicitous of her salvation (CCC 2683).

Rev 5:8, And when he had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and with golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints.

The saints in heave mediate the praises and petitions of the saints on earth (Rev 8:3). The rising smoke of incense is a visible sign of prayers ascending to God (Ps 141:2).

Like priests on earth, the angels in heaven are liturgical ministers as well as covenant mediators between God and his people. They are vested like priests according to 15:6, and here they offere as incense the petitions of the faithful. The company of all the saints probably includes those in heaven, such as the martyrs (6:9-11) and the multitudes (7:13-14) who praise God for his mercy and please for the judgment of the wicked. The Communion of the Saints is the basis for the intercession of the saints. just as the faithful pray for one another on earth, so the faithful pray for one another on earth, so the faithful departed pray for us as they look down from heaven (CCC 954-56).

This may be a weird question, but can a Catholic provide a little snippet of how one should pray? Like for example, when I pray I say something along the lines of:

“Lord Jesus, I thank you for your sacrifice on the cross, taking my place of death. I ask that you please forgive me of my sins, and bless my family indeed.”

In my prayer I pray directly to Jesus. But since Catholics pray to the Saints to pray for them, I was wondering how that would manifest in a prayer.

[quote]forbes wrote:
This may be a weird question, but can a Catholic provide a little snippet of how one should pray? Like for example, when I pray I say something along the lines of:

“Lord Jesus, I thank you for your sacrifice on the cross, taking my place of death. I ask that you please forgive me of my sins, and bless my family indeed.”

In my prayer I pray directly to Jesus. But since Catholics pray to the Saints to pray for them, I was wondering how that would manifest in a prayer.[/quote]

There is all kinds of ways to pray, but the best way to pray is to actually pray. You’d be surprised how many people forget that you actually have to pray, and just think the He knows what I need.

The best prayer is the one that Jesus gave us the Our Father:

Our Father, Who art in heaven,
Hallowed be Thy Name.
Thy Kingdom come.
Thy Will be done, on earth as it is in Heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread.
And forgive us our trespasses,
as we forgive those who trespass against us.
And lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from evil. Amen.

The Saints described the Lord’s Prayer (Our Father) as “truly the summary of the whole gospel.”

The second best prayer is the Rosary, which includes the Our Father, it was characterized as weapon, one of the strongest weapons in spiritual warfare.

Other prayers that I personally use is the Efficacious Novena to the Sacred Heart of Jesus (I got this from Bl. Padre Pio), I use this for my daily prayers for those that I pray for.

I. O my Jesus, You said “verily I say to You, ask and you shall receive, seek and you shall find, knock and it shall be opened to you,” behold I knock, I seek and I ask for the grace of…
Say the Our Father, Hail Mary, Glory Be.
Sacred Heart of Jesus, I put all trust in Thee.

II. O my Jesus, You said, “verily I say to You, whatsoever you shall ask the Father in My name, He will give to you,” behold in your name I ask the Father for the grace of…
Say the Our Father, Hail Mary, Glory Be.
Sacred Heart of Jesus, I put all trust in Thee.

III. O my Jesus, You said, “verily I say to You, heaven and earth shall pass away but My words shall pass away,” behold I encouraged by your infallible words, now ask for the grade of…
Say the Our Father, Hail Mary, Glory Be.
Sacred Heart of Jesus, I put all trust in Thee.

IV. O Sacred Heart of Jesus to whom one thing alone is impossible, namely, not to have compassion on the afflicted, have pity on us miserable sinners and grant us the grace which we ask of Thee through the Sorrowful and Immaculate Heart of Mary, your and our tender Mother.
Say the Salve Regina.
St. Joseph, Foster Father of Jesus, pray for us.

P.S. So, you know the Hail Mary and Glory Be:

Hail Mary,
Full of Grace,
The Lord is with thee.
Blessed art thou among women,
and blessed is the fruit
of thy womb, Jesus.
Holy Mary,
Mother of God,
pray for us sinners now,
and at the hour of death.
Amen.

Glory be to the Father,
and to the Son,
and to the Holy Spirit.
As it was in the beginning,
is now,
and ever shall be,
world without end.
Amen.

P.P.S.

This is the Salve Regina in English, since I’m sure you don’t read or know Latin:

Hail, holy Queen, Mother of Mercy,
our life, our sweetness and our hope.
To thee do we cry, poor banished children of Eve;
to thee do we send up our sighs,
mourning and weeping in this valley of tears.
Turn then, most gracious advocate,
thine eyes of mercy toward us;
and after this our exile,
show unto us the blessed fruit of thy womb, Jesus.
O clement, O loving, O sweet Virgin Mary.
V. Pray for us O holy Mother of God,
R. that we may be made worthy of the promises of Christ.

[quote]forbes wrote:
This may be a weird question, but can a Catholic provide a little snippet of how one should pray? Like for example, when I pray I say something along the lines of:

“Lord Jesus, I thank you for your sacrifice on the cross, taking my place of death. I ask that you please forgive me of my sins, and bless my family indeed.”

In my prayer I pray directly to Jesus. But since Catholics pray to the Saints to pray for them, I was wondering how that would manifest in a prayer.[/quote]

Prayer is very individual. While there are scripted prayers for when you don’t know the exact words, your prayer would also be very Catholic. Prayer can be a conversation with Jesus. In fact, a lot of Catholic Priest that I have talked with or talk with encourage the conversation type of prayer, like you are talking to your friend.

When Catholics “pray” to Saints or saints (saints lowercase incorporates all those that have passed on while Saints capital incorporates those that have been canonized), it might look something like this. You pray to Jesus and say I’ve really been struggling with XYZ. Then you pray to your patron Saint or the patron Saint of XYZ and say, Saint [insert name], the Catholic Church has recognized you great commitment to God in doing [insert some miracle] during your life. You hold a special place in the Kingdom of God. Please pray for me as I struggle with XYZ. You might then pray to relatives that have passed. For instance, if your father has passed you might say, Dad I miss you. Please pray for me as I struggle with XYZ.

There is no one way to pray. No Catholic would say we don’t pray to Jesus. What Catholics do is pray to Jesus and then ask the holy (both here on earth and in Heaven) to pray with them. The most important relationship is between the individual and Jesus. But the Catholic Church is about the larger community (i.e., body of Christ).

As well, there are prayer cards with the prayers that the Saints wrote themselves with a picture or drawing or a painting of the Saint.

I suggest everyone read the Life of Christ and the Lives of the Saints. Good reads, plus the Saints had good prayer lives, I have the Lives of the Saints in the head, and I’m always learning how to pray new ways, it gets over whelming, sometimes I wonder how some of these people even did anything else in their life besides pray. And, I’m talking about people who were known for their charity, preaching, education, &c.

Prayer life is the corner stone which one builds their spiritual life and their defenses against evil in spiritual warfare.

Something that I can’t seem to find a good explanation on is indulgences. What are they exactly?

[quote]forbes wrote:
Something that I can’t seem to find a good explanation on is indulgences. What are they exactly?[/quote]

Indulgence is the kindness and mercy of God to release a debt or temporal punishment for sin.

[quote]forbes wrote:
Something that I can’t seem to find a good explanation on is indulgences. What are they exactly?[/quote]

Send me $100 and I will give you one for free…

[quote]forbes wrote:
Something that I can’t seem to find a good explanation on is indulgences. What are they exactly?[/quote]

Most any answer to most any RCC question can be found there. Keep 2nd Corinthians 11:3 in mind [quote]3-But I am afraid that, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, your minds will be led astray from the simplicity and purity of devotion to Christ.[/quote] Paul was worried about the simple pure gospel being corrupted centuries before any of this stuff was thought up. Imagine him reading newadvent.org.

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]forbes wrote:
Something that I can’t seem to find a good explanation on is indulgences. What are they exactly?[/quote]

Most any answer to most any RCC question can be found there. Keep 2nd Corinthians 11:3 in mind [quote]3-But I am afraid that, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, your minds will be led astray from the simplicity and purity of devotion to Christ.[/quote] Paul was worried about the simple pure gospel being corrupted centuries before any of this stuff was thought up. Imagine him reading newadvent.org.[/quote]

I’m sure he’d be happy that there is such a place to make the truths of the Church readily available and to report the news involving the Church.

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]forbes wrote:
Something that I can’t seem to find a good explanation on is indulgences. What are they exactly?[/quote]

Indulgence is the kindness and mercy of God to release a debt or temporal punishment for sin.[/quote]

Basically it was tradition in the early Church to do temporal punishment for a certain amount of time for your penance so as not to bring temporal punishment in the afterlife. This was a community effort thing, basically you would stand up in front of the Church, confess your sins, and the priest would absolve you. The priest would issue you a temporal punishment. This involved the whole community in this temporal punishment, say you stole something. So, for penance you were to pay back or give back what you stole, make right with the person you directly hurt and to eat bread and water for 100 days, well the whole community was involved. They worked as a community to save each other, they didn’t want you to go to infernus, or even to spend time in purgatorio, so for a 100 days during your penance no one would feed or sell you anything besides bread, and if someone saw that you were not doing your penance they would tell the priest and he’d do his thing. However, there was some problems, not everyone is nice about such things and there was a low turn out rate for confession.

Well, the Church in her mercifulness came up with a way for people to do their temporal punishment either partially or all together, anonymously, if they wished. So, when you see a partial indulgence, it’ll say 100 days, 6 months, 3 years, 5 years, or whatever it may say. That indulgence will release you from that temporal punishment that you would have to do if the the confession and penance was public. So, if you do a partial indulgence for a 100 days, and your penance would be 100 days, you would not owe penance after doing the indulgence. There is plenary indulgences as well, these are what you would use to do all your penance all at once. So, say you have been particularly bad and have 15 years penance, you can do the plenary indulgence and all your penance that you are required to do is taken care of as long as you fulfill the rest of your obligations.

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]forbes wrote:
Something that I can’t seem to find a good explanation on is indulgences. What are they exactly?[/quote]

Indulgence is the kindness and mercy of God to release a debt or temporal punishment for sin.[/quote]

Basically it was tradition in the early Church to do temporal punishment for a certain amount of time for your penance so as not to bring temporal punishment in the afterlife. This was a community effort thing, basically you would stand up in front of the Church, confess your sins, and the priest would absolve you. The priest would issue you a temporal punishment. This involved the whole community in this temporal punishment, say you stole something. So, for penance you were to pay back or give back what you stole, make right with the person you directly hurt and to eat bread and water for 100 days, well the whole community was involved. They worked as a community to save each other, they didn’t want you to go to infernus, or even to spend time in purgatorio, so for a 100 days during your penance no one would feed or sell you anything besides bread, and if someone saw that you were not doing your penance they would tell the priest and he’d do his thing. However, there was some problems, not everyone is nice about such things and there was a low turn out rate for confession.

Well, the Church in her mercifulness came up with a way for people to do their temporal punishment either partially or all together, anonymously, if they wished. So, when you see a partial indulgence, it’ll say 100 days, 6 months, 3 years, 5 years, or whatever it may say. That indulgence will release you from that temporal punishment that you would have to do if the the confession and penance was public. So, if you do a partial indulgence for a 100 days, and your penance would be 100 days, you would not owe penance after doing the indulgence. There is plenary indulgences as well, these are what you would use to do all your penance all at once. So, say you have been particularly bad and have 15 years penance, you can do the plenary indulgence and all your penance that you are required to do is taken care of as long as you fulfill the rest of your obligations.[/quote]

This whole system sounds like it was invented to be corrupt.
Question: Is it Biblical or did the RCC make it up?

My understanding is that indulgences did become corrupt, to the extent that people could actually pay money to have their sins absolved, even in advance of the sin being committed. Is that true, Chris?

[quote]forlife wrote:
My understanding is that indulgences did become corrupt, to the extent that people could actually pay money to have their sins absolved, even in advance of the sin being committed. Is that true, Chris?[/quote]

This did happen, of course in the 16th century, particularly in Germany. It was actually limited in scope and not sanctioned by the Holy See. The other problem is that the church was intimately woven into the politics of the day… The clergy got educations, and such that most common yuks of the day did not have, so it made sense that souless ambitious folks would exploit it for personal gain which obviously happened a lot. Even if you were an honest person, the politics would make you sick. People tended to weave a lot of superstition into it too.
“Give me 10 shekels I’ll give you a 1000 year indulgence”. 20 you get a plenary indulgence.", uh, no.

Indulgences can be granted by Bishops it is simply a remission of ‘temporal punishment’ resulting from the sin.
The church does not seem to put much stake in them anymore as the Catechism states:

“An indulgence is obtained through the Church who, by virtue of the power of binding and losing granted her by Christ Jesus, intervenes in favor of individual Christians and opens for them the treasury of the metis of Christ and the saints to obtain from the Father of mercies the remission of the temporal punishments due for their sins. Thus the Church does not want simply to come to the aid of these Christians, but also to spur them to works of devotion, penance, and charity”

So in a practical sense, they are kind of useless. God can’t be bought with money or prayer. Penance and prayer are still your best bets for obtaining the mercy of God. If your heart ain’t pure, the bishop can grant you as many indulgences as he wants and it won’t help you.

[quote]Sweet Revenge wrote:

This whole system sounds like it was invented to be corrupt.
Question: Is it Biblical or did the RCC make it up?

[/quote]

Yep, it is certainly susceptible to corruption especially if you were led to believe you were screwed with out them.

Everything has a scriptural basis, but I would say this one was stretched a bit. Understand that it is not an infallible dogma, just an option.

Thanks Pat. I agree with you, but I’m still not seeing the point of indulgences. As you say, if your heart isn’t pure they won’t do you any good. And if your heart is pure, why would you need them?

[quote]Sweet Revenge wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]forbes wrote:
Something that I can’t seem to find a good explanation on is indulgences. What are they exactly?[/quote]

Indulgence is the kindness and mercy of God to release a debt or temporal punishment for sin.[/quote]

Basically it was tradition in the early Church to do temporal punishment for a certain amount of time for your penance so as not to bring temporal punishment in the afterlife. This was a community effort thing, basically you would stand up in front of the Church, confess your sins, and the priest would absolve you. The priest would issue you a temporal punishment. This involved the whole community in this temporal punishment, say you stole something. So, for penance you were to pay back or give back what you stole, make right with the person you directly hurt and to eat bread and water for 100 days, well the whole community was involved. They worked as a community to save each other, they didn’t want you to go to infernus, or even to spend time in purgatorio, so for a 100 days during your penance no one would feed or sell you anything besides bread, and if someone saw that you were not doing your penance they would tell the priest and he’d do his thing. However, there was some problems, not everyone is nice about such things and there was a low turn out rate for confession.

Well, the Church in her mercifulness came up with a way for people to do their temporal punishment either partially or all together, anonymously, if they wished. So, when you see a partial indulgence, it’ll say 100 days, 6 months, 3 years, 5 years, or whatever it may say. That indulgence will release you from that temporal punishment that you would have to do if the the confession and penance was public. So, if you do a partial indulgence for a 100 days, and your penance would be 100 days, you would not owe penance after doing the indulgence. There is plenary indulgences as well, these are what you would use to do all your penance all at once. So, say you have been particularly bad and have 15 years penance, you can do the plenary indulgence and all your penance that you are required to do is taken care of as long as you fulfill the rest of your obligations.[/quote]

This whole system sounds like it was invented to be corrupt.
Question: Is it Biblical or did the RCC make it up?

[/quote]

What are you talking about?

[quote]forlife wrote:
Thanks Pat. I agree with you, but I’m still not seeing the point of indulgences. As you say, if your heart isn’t pure they won’t do you any good. And if your heart is pure, why would you need them?[/quote]

Because even if your heart is faithful to Jesus you still sin, and when you sin there is temporal punishment.