[quote]Makavali wrote:
[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]Makavali wrote:
[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]Makavali wrote:
Politics and Bible Studies.[/quote]
You could use education in both punk.
[/quote]
u mad[/quote]
I only deal in facts:
You’re a punk
You need to be educated in politics
You need to be educated in religion.
[/quote]
y u mad tho lol[/quote]
I’m not mad at you, you little stump weed. I think with a little therapy you’d be as good as almost anyone.
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]forbes wrote:
[quote]bigflamer wrote:
[quote]forbes wrote:
@ Sloth and Brother Chris:
You make very good arguments and I have nothing to dispute.
But what about the exaltation of Mary? Do you guys worship her or is that just a misconception?[/quote]Catholics worship God through the saints, and don’t worship the saints themselves. This is what I was taught.
[/quote]
How is that done?[/quote]
I don’t think that it is possible to do what he is saying. I mean we honor (not worship) the saints, and that honors God, and we pray to the saints and they pray to God for us, but worship is only for God.[/quote]
We are saying the same thing here, BC. Catholics, believing in a special connection the saints have with man, pray to god through the saints. Sort of like lobbying I suppose. LOL
[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]forbes wrote:
[quote]bigflamer wrote:
[quote]forbes wrote:
@ Sloth and Brother Chris:
You make very good arguments and I have nothing to dispute.
But what about the exaltation of Mary? Do you guys worship her or is that just a misconception?[/quote]Catholics worship God through the saints, and don’t worship the saints themselves. This is what I was taught.
[/quote]
How is that done?[/quote]
I don’t think that it is possible to do what he is saying. I mean we honor (not worship) the saints, and that honors God, and we pray to the saints and they pray to God for us, but worship is only for God.[/quote]
Do you pray to saints because that is in your historical literature? I grew up Catholic but can’t remember for the life of me why I did half the things that I did. And that goes for saying the rosary as well. The Bible is pretty clear that Jesus Christ is the only intermediary between God (the father) and man.
[/quote]
Many Catholics have a limited understanding of their religion, and that is not meant to be an offense, just a factual observation. There’s plenty of Catholic families who couldn’t tell you the specific origins of their traditions. Catholicism teaches that we should pray to especially holy people who have gone before us (the saints and Mary, asking them to pray on our behalf. Prayer is not always worship in Catholicism. I understand if this isn’t something you don’t want to subscribe to, just stating what Catholicism teaches.
I found this excerpt on AskACatholic.com, hope it helps.
AskACatholic.com home
[i]Now to the idea that Catholics worship Mary. This is a hoary old chestnut which has not the slightest basis in truth. Catholics believe that Jesus is the one Mediator with the Father. Jesus is God the Son, the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity. This fact has been dogmatically defined from the earliest of Church Councils, and cannot be changed. If your friend had been using theological terminology he would have spoken of dulia, hyperdulia and latria.
* Latria is the fullness of worship which is given to Almighty God alone.
* Dulia is the honour due to a holy person, a Saint and
* Hyperdulia is the veneration we give to an especially holy person, Mary, the Mother of Jesus.
We are honouring the fact that Mary was the human mother of God himself, and is therefore especially close to Jesus, not simply by virtue of her holiness, but also because he was her son, flesh of her flesh. Now in human families we all know of occasions when we might have done something wrong, or maybe want something very badly, or are afraid of presenting a poor school report to our parents, and we might say to our mothers, ‘Mum, please will you speak to dad about this’. We are requesting our mothers to be an intermediary with our father. There is nothing wrong in this and it is a perfectly human reaction. This is what Christians do when they ask Mary to intercede for them with her Son. The very first recorded example of this was when Jesus worked his first miracle at Cana. Mary was conscious of how embarrassing it would have been for a young newly married couple to run out of wine on such an occasion. She saw and ‘felt’ the social disgrace their families would have suffered, and her human, maternal love showed as she quietly said to the stewards, ‘Do whatever he tells you’. Is this not a wonderful example of our turning to Mary when in difficulty or need, and asking that she join her prayers with ours, to request that God grant our petitions. Jesus taught us to pray ‘Give us this day our daily bread etc’ and in turning to Mary, we ask her to help us obey all the precepts of her Divine Son. I hope I have expressed myself adequately in this short answer to a serious question and I am happy to discuss this at length if you wish. What I wish to avoid is an unnecessary long theological answer to what is essence is a very human, family, situation.[i]
[quote]ZEB wrote:
<<< stump weed. >>>[/quote]LOL!!!
[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]Makavali wrote:
[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]Makavali wrote:
[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]Makavali wrote:
Politics and Bible Studies.[/quote]
You could use education in both punk.
[/quote]
u mad[/quote]
I only deal in facts:
You’re a punk
You need to be educated in politics
You need to be educated in religion.
[/quote]
y u mad tho lol[/quote]
I’m not mad at you, you little stump weed. I think with a little therapy you’d be as good as almost anyone.
[/quote]
lol u mad
[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]forbes wrote:
[quote]bigflamer wrote:
[quote]forbes wrote:
@ Sloth and Brother Chris:
You make very good arguments and I have nothing to dispute.
But what about the exaltation of Mary? Do you guys worship her or is that just a misconception?[/quote]Catholics worship God through the saints, and don’t worship the saints themselves. This is what I was taught.
[/quote]
How is that done?[/quote]
I don’t think that it is possible to do what he is saying. I mean we honor (not worship) the saints, and that honors God, and we pray to the saints and they pray to God for us, but worship is only for God.[/quote]
Do you pray to saints because that is in your historical literature? I grew up Catholic but can’t remember for the life of me why I did half the things that I did. And that goes for saying the rosary as well. The Bible is pretty clear that Jesus Christ is the only intermediary between God (the father) and man.
[/quote]
The Bible IS clear that Jesus is the one mediator between man and God, that doesn’t mean Jesus is the only intercessor between Jesus and man.
I’ll show you later.
[quote]bigflamer wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]forbes wrote:
[quote]bigflamer wrote:
[quote]forbes wrote:
@ Sloth and Brother Chris:
You make very good arguments and I have nothing to dispute.
But what about the exaltation of Mary? Do you guys worship her or is that just a misconception?[/quote]Catholics worship God through the saints, and don’t worship the saints themselves. This is what I was taught.
[/quote]
How is that done?[/quote]
I don’t think that it is possible to do what he is saying. I mean we honor (not worship) the saints, and that honors God, and we pray to the saints and they pray to God for us, but worship is only for God.[/quote]
We are saying the same thing here, BC. Catholics, believing in a special connection the saints have with man, pray to god through the saints. Sort of like lobbying I suppose. LOL
[/quote]
I wouldn’t say lobbying, that makes it sound like we’re trying to trick God. The saints are just better at prayer than we are, more righteous, and they never cease. They don’t get distracted. Although there is a hint of lobbying in there, because the holiness or righteousness of the saints works in our favor, just as the friends of the cripple helped the cripple be healed by Jesus.
If B is the one mediator between A and man, and XYZ speaks of man in different worlds. If X can pray to B directly, and Z can pray to B directly, why can’t X ask Z to pray to B for X, and maybe even Y.
[quote]Makavali wrote:
[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]Makavali wrote:
[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]Makavali wrote:
[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]Makavali wrote:
Politics and Bible Studies.[/quote]
You could use education in both punk.
[/quote]
u mad[/quote]
I only deal in facts:
You’re a punk
You need to be educated in politics
You need to be educated in religion.
[/quote]
y u mad tho lol[/quote]
I’m not mad at you, you little stump weed. I think with a little therapy you’d be as good as almost anyone.
[/quote]
lol u mad[/quote]
No little cartoon boy (pats head) now run along the adults are talking.
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]forbes wrote:
[quote]bigflamer wrote:
[quote]forbes wrote:
@ Sloth and Brother Chris:
You make very good arguments and I have nothing to dispute.
But what about the exaltation of Mary? Do you guys worship her or is that just a misconception?[/quote]Catholics worship God through the saints, and don’t worship the saints themselves. This is what I was taught.
[/quote]
How is that done?[/quote]
I don’t think that it is possible to do what he is saying. I mean we honor (not worship) the saints, and that honors God, and we pray to the saints and they pray to God for us, but worship is only for God.[/quote]
Do you pray to saints because that is in your historical literature? I grew up Catholic but can’t remember for the life of me why I did half the things that I did. And that goes for saying the rosary as well. The Bible is pretty clear that Jesus Christ is the only intermediary between God (the father) and man.
[/quote]
The Bible IS clear that Jesus is the one mediator between man and God, that doesn’t mean Jesus is the only intercessor between Jesus and man.
I’ll show you later.[/quote]
Sorry, I’ve never heard of there being another mediator between God and man. And in fact 1 Timothy 2:5 states “For there is one God, and ONE mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.”
Pretty clear huh?
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
If B is the one mediator between A and man, and XYZ speaks of man in different worlds. If X can pray to B directly, and Z can pray to B directly, why can’t X ask Z to pray to B for X, and maybe even Y.[/quote]
Where is this chart located in the Bible? Okay, I’m being funny but again there is nothing of this in the Bible just the quote to Timothy by Paul.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
Sorry, I’ve never heard of there being another mediator between God and man. And in fact 1 Timothy 2:5 states “For there is one God, and ONE mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.”
Pretty clear huh?
[/quote]
I realize that you may not agree, but Catholics are very comfortable with the idea of honoring the saints and asking them to pray to God on their behalf.
Also, and maybe this is another thread all together, but which version of the bible do you all subscribe to? Just curious. I have a nutjob great uncle with one foot in the grave who hijacked my grandma’s funeral service this past year, holding us all hostage with a crazy speech about the KJV, and how we’re all going to hell if we read any other version. No joke.
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]forbes wrote:
@ Sloth and Brother Chris:
You make very good arguments and I have nothing to dispute.
But what about the exaltation of Mary? Do you guys worship her or is that just a misconception?[/quote]
Misconception. She is the King’s mother (and our Mother). And, like Solomon’s mother (unlike Solomon’s mother, who was a prideful sinner) she is above all others, except for the King.[/quote]
We honor Mary because Jesus honored her. She is not worshiped, never has been. Simply propaganda to make us look bad.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]Makavali wrote:
[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]Makavali wrote:
[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]Makavali wrote:
[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]Makavali wrote:
Politics and Bible Studies.[/quote]
You could use education in both punk.
[/quote]
u mad[/quote]
I only deal in facts:
You’re a punk
You need to be educated in politics
You need to be educated in religion.
[/quote]
y u mad tho lol[/quote]
I’m not mad at you, you little stump weed. I think with a little therapy you’d be as good as almost anyone.
[/quote]
lol u mad[/quote]
No little cartoon boy (pats head) now run along the adults are talking.
:)[/quote]
still mad i see
[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]forbes wrote:
[quote]bigflamer wrote:
[quote]forbes wrote:
@ Sloth and Brother Chris:
You make very good arguments and I have nothing to dispute.
But what about the exaltation of Mary? Do you guys worship her or is that just a misconception?[/quote]Catholics worship God through the saints, and don’t worship the saints themselves. This is what I was taught.
[/quote]
How is that done?[/quote]
I don’t think that it is possible to do what he is saying. I mean we honor (not worship) the saints, and that honors God, and we pray to the saints and they pray to God for us, but worship is only for God.[/quote]
Do you pray to saints because that is in your historical literature? I grew up Catholic but can’t remember for the life of me why I did half the things that I did. And that goes for saying the rosary as well. The Bible is pretty clear that Jesus Christ is the only intermediary between God (the father) and man.
[/quote]
The Bible IS clear that Jesus is the one mediator between man and God, that doesn’t mean Jesus is the only intercessor between Jesus and man.
I’ll show you later.[/quote]
Sorry, I’ve never heard of there being another mediator between God and man. And in fact 1 Timothy 2:5 states “For there is one God, and ONE mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.”
Pretty clear huh?
[/quote]
Didn’t know mediator and intercessors were the same thing. And, yes it is pretty clear.
One mediator, a middleman or negotiator who makes friends of enemies. Jesus Christ is the mediator who reconciles the world to the Father in the bonds of the New Covenant (2 Cor 5:18; Heb 9:15). The distance once separating man from God is now bridged by the Incarnation, in which divinity and humanity are forever united in God the Son. In this sense, the mediation of Christ is absolutely unique. Still, the mediation of angels and saints is not ruled out, since union with Christ enables others to share in the saving work of Christ in subordinate and participatory ways. Paul assumes as much in the immediate context, for he urges Timothy and company to pray for civil authorities, i.e., to intercede as mediators between God and their governors in the course of the liturgy (1 Tim 2:1-3). A mediator brings together those who are separated, for extremes are united at a midpoint. Uniting men with God is the office of Christ, through whom men are reconciled to God. however, nothing forbids others from being called mediators inasmuch as they cooperate in uniting men with God directing their way or by ministerial actions (St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologiae III, 26, 1).
If Jesus Christ is the One mediator, between the Father and man, why can’t we ask others to pray to Jesus Christ for us. Another point, Jesus directs us to pray the Our Father, directed at the Father (which I point out that as a whole, only Catholics are faithful to that command as how to pray).
[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
If B is the one mediator between A and man, and XYZ speaks of man in different worlds. If X can pray to B directly, and Z can pray to B directly, why can’t X ask Z to pray to B for X, and maybe even Y.[/quote]
Where is this chart located in the Bible? Okay, I’m being funny but again there is nothing of this in the Bible just the quote to Timothy by Paul. [/quote]
It doesn’t say anything in the Bible about who wrote The Gospel According to Mark or the proper way to get married.
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]forbes wrote:
[quote]bigflamer wrote:
[quote]forbes wrote:
@ Sloth and Brother Chris:
You make very good arguments and I have nothing to dispute.
But what about the exaltation of Mary? Do you guys worship her or is that just a misconception?[/quote]Catholics worship God through the saints, and don’t worship the saints themselves. This is what I was taught.
[/quote]
How is that done?[/quote]
I don’t think that it is possible to do what he is saying. I mean we honor (not worship) the saints, and that honors God, and we pray to the saints and they pray to God for us, but worship is only for God.[/quote]
Do you pray to saints because that is in your historical literature? I grew up Catholic but can’t remember for the life of me why I did half the things that I did. And that goes for saying the rosary as well. The Bible is pretty clear that Jesus Christ is the only intermediary between God (the father) and man.
[/quote]
The Bible IS clear that Jesus is the one mediator between man and God, that doesn’t mean Jesus is the only intercessor between Jesus and man.
I’ll show you later.[/quote]
Sorry, I’ve never heard of there being another mediator between God and man. And in fact 1 Timothy 2:5 states “For there is one God, and ONE mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.”
Pretty clear huh?
[/quote]
Didn’t know mediator and intercessors were the same thing.[/quote]
Cool game let’s keep playing. Where does it say you need an intercessor in the Bible?
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
If B is the one mediator between A and man, and XYZ speaks of man in different worlds. If X can pray to B directly, and Z can pray to B directly, why can’t X ask Z to pray to B for X, and maybe even Y.[/quote]
Where is this chart located in the Bible? Okay, I’m being funny but again there is nothing of this in the Bible just the quote to Timothy by Paul. [/quote]
It doesn’t say anything in the Bible about who wrote The Gospel According to Mark or the proper way to get married.[/quote]
Nor does it tell you how to start your car on a cold winter morning - So what?
[quote]Makavali wrote:
[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]Makavali wrote:
Politics and Bible Studies.[/quote]
You could use education in both punk.
[/quote]
u mad[/quote]
Whether he’s mad or not, he does have a point. You do need to educate yourself on many matter. Cheeky one-liners may piss people off, but it also prove you know nothing about the subject matter on the many topics you ‘one-line’.
Any moron can mock, not many can make a truthful reasonable argument based on truth, logic and fact.