You seem to like to ask “by what authority” to me a lot. So I ask you, by what authority do you claim that oral tradition is just as sacred as Scriptures, and that the Spirit only guides the Catholic church. Please support this view.[/quote]
My authority is the Bible and therefore the Catholic Church since the Catholic Church gives the Bible its authority.
Let me first ask you something, do you believe in the Trinity? Then where in the Bible is the word Trinity? I am presuming that the answer is yes. However, the word Trinity is not in the Bible. Therefore, not everything that is to be believed by Christians is directly in the Bible. Is there biblical backing of the Trinity? Yes, just like there is of purgatory, Mary’s assumption, the Pope, &c.
Why do you believe that everything of the Christian faith has to be found in the Bible? Is it really the sole rule of faith for Christians? Does it really contain everything we need to know about faith and morals? I am presuming yes, that the Bible is the only thing that we need to know and to believe that Jesus wanted us to know and believe.
I want you to do something for me, hold up your Bible. Now, tell me what is the Pillar and Bulwark of the truth? I am presuming you hold that it is the Bible, right. One Timothy 3:15, “If I [Paul] am delayed, you may know how one out to behave in the household of G-d, which is the Church of the living G-d, the pillar and bulwark of the truth.” Therefore, it is the Church and not the Bible that is pillar and bulwark of the truth. The Church is the pillar of truth. In addition, what does a pillar do…it holds things up? Therefore, the Bible is telling us that the Bible is upholding the truth. The Church is the pillar of the truth. The Church is the bulwark of the truth…and, what does a bulwark do? It is something that acts as a protection or a defense of something. Therefore, the Bible is telling us that the Church is protecting and defending the truth.
The Bible says…the Bible says, the Word of G-d says, not that the Bible is the pillar and bulwark of truth, but the Church…the Church…the Church is the pillar and bulwark of the truth.
If the Church is the pillar and bulwark of the truth, the upholder and defender of the truth…are not we as Catholics right to listen to the Church in matters of faith and morals about purgatory, or Mary, or the Pope. In addition, particularly should not we listen to the Church in matters of pertaining to the proper interpretation of scripture?
John 8:32, “and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free.” If you cannot know the truth with certainty, how can you be made free? The Church has a very important role in setting people free.
So, why do you believe that the Bible is the sole rule of faith for Christians? Where in the Bible does it say that?
If you believe that the Bible is the sole rule of faith, then the Bible ought to say that. Do not you think so?
However, you know what, nowhere…nowhere in the Bible does it say that. Nowhere, it is not there.
Let us look at some of your reasons:
Two Tim 3:16-17 says, “All Scripture is inspired by G-d and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of G-d may be complete, equipped for every good work.”
In addition, I say this…Amen! I believe 100% in what this verse is saying.
Two things about this passage:
- Scripture is profitable; it does not say scripture is sufficient. Therefore, it does not say that all we need to know is in the Bible.
- No where do we see the word ‘alone.’ As in scripture ‘alone.’
What this scripture is saying and what all this passage is saying is that Scripture is inspired and profitable. In addition, as Catholics we agree 100%, all Scripture is inspired and profitable. We need to read scripture, we need to know it, &c., but this passage still doesn’t say anything about Scripture being the sole rule of faith for Christians.
However, let us get some context of this scripture, let us look at two Tim. 3:15, “and how from childhood you have been acquainted with the Sacred Writings which are able to instruct you for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.”
From childhood, what sacred writings have Timothy know from childhood? How many books of the New Testament were written when Timothy was in his childhood? Paul, here, is talking about the Old Testament.
Therefore, if we interpret this passage in light of your form, Paul here is saying that the Old Testament is sufficient as a rule of faith because he is talking about the Old Testament, not the NT. Most of the NT had not been written, yet. If what you are saying about this passage were true, then we would have to conclude that the Old Testament Bible is the sole rule of faith for Christians. Of course, that is if we interpret in that form. I am sure we both agree that this is incorrect.
Now, I want to establish an important Catholic doctrine. That is Sacred Scripture and… And… In addition, Sacred Tradition, which makes up the entire deposit of faith. This comprises of the sole rule of faith for Christians. That Catholics do not believe the Scriptures are the sole rule of faith, but that the Word of G-d is the sole rule of faith.
I am guessing we both believe that the Word of G-d is the sole rule of faith. However, I hold that the sole rule of faith is both the written and spoken form of the Word of G-d, not just in the written form.
Now, I know if it is not in the Bible, you are not going to believe it. Therefore, I have taken the time to get you some verses from the Bible.
2 Thess, 2:15 Paul says to the Thessalonians, “So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter.”
Traditions, traditions taught by either by word of mouth or by letter. Sacred Scriptures AND Sacred Traditions.
Now, keep your finger on Thessalonians, we will be back in a second. However, let us turn to two Timothy 2:2.
Two Timothy 2:2, Paul says to Timothy, “and what you have heard from me before many witnesses entrust to faithful men who will be able to teach others also.”
Does Paul say pass what you have read in my writings so that they may read it, too? No. What you have heard from me…entrust to faithful men who will…write it down? No… Who will teach others.
Now, turn to one Corinthians 11:2, Paul says to the Corinthians, “I commend you because you remember me in everything and maintain the traditions even as I have delivered them to you.”
Paul is commending the Corinthians because they maintain the traditions that Paul has delivered to them. Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition.
Go back to Thessalonians.
1 Thess 2:13, Paul says, “And we also thank G-d constantly for this, that when you received the word of G-d which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men but as what it really is, the word of G-d, which is at work in you believers.”
So they thank G-d for they received what they heard and not what they had read. In addition, that is what Sacred Tradition is, the Apostles doctrine that which was given to them by Lord, Jesus Christ.
Jesus does not condemn all tradition. Nowhere does the Bible say that. Jesus condemns the traditions of men, especially those traditions that contradict or that negate the word of G-d. Traditions in and of themselves are not bad things; it is only when they negate the word of G-d that Jesus has a problem.
We have seen that the traditions that come from the Apostles, and Paul says he is an Apostle. Because the Apostles were taught by Jesus and guided by the Holy Ghost. Apostolic Traditions are not condemned in Scripture. In addition, we have seen in one Thess 2:13 that these traditions are not the word of men, but the word of G-d.
Every Church has traditions if they want to admit it or not. Sunday as the Sabbath, not in the Bible. Wednesday night Church meeting, not in the Bible. It is not a bad tradition, but it is a tradition.
Alter calls, not a bad tradition, but a tradition and not in the Bible.
Sola Scriptura, not in the Bible. A tradition and particularly a tradition of men. This negates the word of G-d.
From a historical and logical point of view. Martin Luther broke from the Church it was 1520. By the year, 1600 there was more than 200 Protestant denominations. By the year 1900, the Protestant denominations numbered almost a 1000. In addition, now in the 2010 there are 30 to 35000 Protestant denominations. In addition, the thing is that each one claims to be based on the Bible Alone and each claim to be guided by the Spirit. Yet, none of them has the exact same doctrines. In addition, many have doctrines that contradict one another.
35,000 Protestant denominations claim to be based on the Bible alone and guided by the Spirit. Yet, how can that be that you have different doctrines and doctrines that contradict each other. Can the Holy Spirit contradict itself?
NO.
The doctrine of Sola Scriptura has done nothing but divide the body of Christ.
Now, I have to get back to bed, but if you wish for me to read, the rest of those verses and give my comments on them. I will.
Goodnight.
