Pretty funny article.
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
Pretty funny article.
8 Reasons Catholics are the Worst Protesters| National Catholic Register [/quote] [quote]Detroit Red Wings fans turn over cars when their team wins a playoff game >>>[/quote]Never happened once Chris. Like Mary hearing a prayer =]
EDIT: I see my homeboy already straightened this guy out. Pretty funny article, but I’m still waiting for an explanation of how the one true Church(almost forgot big C ) and bride of Christ can vote for an abortion supporting, gay agenda advancing, Catholic attacker like Obama. Nobody saw this comin? They’ll do it again too. Watch.
EDIT2:btw, I only brought up Catholic support for Obama because he did.
[quote]Mr. Chen wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
My offer still stands, but the strings of being respectful are still attached. You are right on one thing, if you cannot even be respectful, there is no chance for peace between us.
[/quote]
I have not twisted your words, but you have twisted mine.
[/quote]
No need to argue this, the proof is in the texts you wrote. There is nothing you can do about it now as you should have been more careful when you wrote them.
Your own words are your testimony against you. I don’t have to say a thing.
Disagreements I don’t have a problem with. Blatant insults, mocking, name calling and drive by accusations with out a shred of evidence to back it up.
Please don’t waste my time saying you haven’t done this. You have, you know it, the proof is on these pages, all we have to do is go back and look.
Respectful disagreement is fine.
[quote]
2) If I think your teaching on salvation is wrong, does it not follow logically that (I think) you are not a brother in Christ?
Just answer yes or no Pat.[/quote]
I will answer as I see fit. You don’t have the right to order me around. I think your teaching is wrong, but I won’t disqualify you from being a brother in Christ because it’s not my right. That would be passing judgement on you and your relationship with God. I don’t have that right and neither did you, but you saw fit to do it anyway. See it isn’t us who gets to decide this.
I disagree vehemently with many of your tenants, but I cannot condemn you for them. Nor can you condemn me. The only thing you have expressed, is that you really really hate the church, but you haven’t articulated why. I see it more as a blind rage and I think you’ve been fed a bunch of bull. Further, I think your afraid of the truth. Which is why I believe you avoid substantive conversations and focus on veneer. If you find out that we are just fallible people who have to put all our trust in Christ and that (GASP!) Christ might even love us too, then you may be forced to let go of your false premises.
Would you be mad, if Christ loved us Catholics to and loved his church? Would that hurt your faith?
You can’t have Christ all your yourself. I need him.
[quote]pat wrote:
I will answer as I see fit. You don’t have the right to order me around.[/quote] Feel free to add any qualification or explanation to your yes or no answer. By not answering as I request, you disrespect me, and make the conversation one-sided. You are not participating in a converstation with me, as there is no give and take. Even if you ask what appears to me to be a sarcastic question, I’m willing to answer:[quote]pat wrote: Would that hurt your faith? [/quote] No, nothing you believe or opinion you hold, can hurt my faith.
So you see. I am willing to answer you directly, how about doing me the same courtesy.
[quote]pat wrote:Would you be mad, if Christ loved us Catholics to and loved his church. You can’t have Christ all your yourself. I need him. [/quote] Certainly Christ loved you, enough to die for you. And you get to respond to Him by trusting in His sacrifice alone made “once for all” as a propitiation for your sins. If you have done that, then you are in Him and He is in you. You may make this transaction no matter what church you attend. If you have not, then the wrath of God abides on you. Of course, I cannot look into your soul and determine it’s true state. I wish you would read my posts more carefully, then we could perhaps have an actual conversation. I have always qualified my statements concerning salvation using words like “if” and “I think” precisely because whether or not you are truly saved is not mine to determine.
And I know He loves His church. My opinion is that the Roman Catholic church, as an organized visible institution, is not it. You have labeled my opinion in this regard insulting, yet it’s a position held by many protestants.
[quote]pat wrote: I think your teaching is wrong, but I won’t disqualify you from being a brother in Christ because it’s not my right. That would be passing judgement on you and your relationship with God.[/quote] If I am trusting my eternal soul to this wrong teaching, can I still go to heaven? In your opinion that is, and just hypothetical.
[quote]pat wrote:
Disagreements I don’t have a problem with. Blatant insults, mocking, name calling and drive by accusations with out a shred of evidence to back it up.
Please don’t waste my time saying you haven’t done this. You have, you know it, the proof is on these pages, all we have to do is go back and look.
[/quote]
I feel no need to take back anything I’ve written. I have expressed my opinions in as straightforward a manner as I can.
Let’s do it then. Where have I used name calling?
[quote]Mr. Chen wrote:<<< My opinion is that the Roman Catholic church, as an organized visible institution, is not it. You have labeled my opinion in this regard insulting, yet it’s a position held by many protestants. >>>[/quote]Used to be all of em. We need those days back. We have sacrificed the power of the gospel on the idolatrous altar of artificial unity.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Let me see if I understand you right- To seek unity outside the truth of Scripture, is in fact, not real unity, but artificial, and in the end unhealthy to all? And it’s actually a form idolatry, and should therefore be condemned? Is this not a “drive by accusation”?
[quote]Mr. Chen wrote:
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Let me see if I understand you right- To seek unity outside the truth of Scripture, is in fact, not real unity, but artificial, and in the end unhealthy to all? And it’s actually a form idolatry, and should therefore be condemned? Is this not a “drive by accusation”? [/quote]Well I’m not actually driving by. I’m camped here and have been saying the same thing forever. If it ever actually was, the Roman Catholic Church is certainly not now a Christian institution by any devil delighting stretch of the modernistic, love before purity, neo-ecumanical imagination. I like the old Rome that would burn me alive for heresy. I actually respect that.
[quote]Mr. Chen wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
Disagreements I don’t have a problem with. Blatant insults, mocking, name calling and drive by accusations with out a shred of evidence to back it up.
Please don’t waste my time saying you haven’t done this. You have, you know it, the proof is on these pages, all we have to do is go back and look.
[/quote]
I feel no need to take back anything I’ve written. I have expressed my opinions in as straightforward a manner as I can.
Let’s do it then. Where have I used name calling?[/quote]
You have compared me to Nancy Pelosi (which is one of the worst insults you can dole on a person), called me lazy, told me to squat in a corner with sloth. Commented on my woeful prayer and scripture life, and called me an uncommitted Christian.Perhaps I should have been more general in referring to direct insults, rather than name calling. Nevertheless it’s the stuff of middle school 12 yr olds, not the stuff of grown men who supposedly read the bible every 3 months.
So let’s examine. You don’t like what I have to say, you cannot properly counter argue, so you reduce to leveling insults, but your pride will not allow you to take it back? You think you’ve done well?
Forgive me, but I don’t think your here for honest conversation at all, I think your here for self-aggrandizement. I guess you thought Catholics were dumb and didn’t know their faith. Surprise! We do and we are not ashamed.
I thought you wanted to to argue points from the point of scripture?
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
[quote]Mr. Chen wrote:
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Let me see if I understand you right- To seek unity outside the truth of Scripture, is in fact, not real unity, but artificial, and in the end unhealthy to all? And it’s actually a form idolatry, and should therefore be condemned? Is this not a “drive by accusation”? [/quote]Well I’m not actually driving by. I’m camped here and have been saying the same thing forever. If it ever actually was, the Roman Catholic Church is certainly not now a Christian institution by any devil delighting stretch of the modernistic, love before purity, neo-ecumanical imagination. I like the old Rome that would burn me alive for heresy. I actually respect that.
[/quote]
Except Rome didn’t burn people alive for heresy. That was the monarchs who did that because heresy was a capital offense and threatened the authority of the Monarch. You respect something that never existed.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Must be talking about Protestants, because Catholics pray for true unity. That people stop being prideful and come back to their mother who knows best.
[quote]Mr. Chen wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
I will answer as I see fit. You don’t have the right to order me around.[/quote] Feel free to add any qualification or explanation to your yes or no answer. By not answering as I request, you disrespect me, and make the conversation one-sided. You are not participating in a converstation with me, as there is no give and take. Even if you ask what appears to me to be a sarcastic question, I’m willing to answer:
[/quote]
Oh that’s rich. So if I don’t let you be my master, my boss, my preacher, I am showing you disrespect? Is that in be bible?
Tell me, by what actions have you earned even a modicum of respect? You have no shown respect around here to anybody, much less me. You have no control over me, and I will answer as I please. When you show you are capable of respect, then you will receive in kind. It’s really not hard.
But alas, I was not disrespecting you in the least in answering your question. I just answered it correctly. Take it as you will, it’s pretty evident you will twist anything I say anyway. Maybe it will stop me… Nah,
Where have I not answered you directly?
Second, I wasn’t referring to MY opinion. Seeing as how you have employed the tactic of removing the quoted text that doesn’t suit the answer you want to give and manipulated it to be something you wanted to answer. The question wasn’t about MY opinion, it’s about finding the truth of things. My admonition is that your run away from discussions of substance, I was hypothesizing that if you found the truth about the things you hold fallacious knowledge of.
Correct, and neither is your brotherhood with me. You can not like me all you want. You cannot do anything about the fact that I submit myself totally to Him. Therefore, you being my brother has nothing to do with you and me, it has to do with you and Christ. For if he is both your’s and mine Lord and Savior, then we are brothers whether you like it or not. The only way you can relinquish this tie, is to relinquish Christ. So deal with it.
You have not held this as ‘your opinion’. I haven’t labeled your opinion insulting, I have labeled your insults and self aggrandizement on the matter as insulting.
You’re welcome to have this opinion, but I also hold the opinion, that a church created by man who had to alter the scripture to make it fit what he believed ain’t it…
But looking at it that way misses the whole point really. There are matters of historical fact and behaviors of people both dead and alive, that neither one of us can do anything about. Mature faith has to look pass differences in methodology. All religion is, is a means to and end, not the end itself. Further, faith is a personal journey, that nobody can do for you. And maybe, just maybe, God loves both churches… Because the people are the church. Do you believe that God turns away people that love him because they didn’t attend the right church?
First, the teachings of the church are not wrong, but if you have one you’d like to discuss, feel free to bring it forth.
However, there is no evidence that God turns away the people that love him because they were a little off. Indeed, nobody really knows or understands God. For I believe what St. Paul writes in Romans 2:12-16
“For all who have sinned without the law will also perish without the law, and all who have sinned under the law will be judged by the law. For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified. For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus.
(Romans 2:12-16 ESV)”
“God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus.” ← That’s what I believe. And that is also what the church teaches.
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]Mr. Chen wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
Disagreements I don’t have a problem with. Blatant insults, mocking, name calling and drive by accusations with out a shred of evidence to back it up.
Please don’t waste my time saying you haven’t done this. You have, you know it, the proof is on these pages, all we have to do is go back and look.
[/quote]
I feel no need to take back anything I’ve written. I have expressed my opinions in as straightforward a manner as I can.
Let’s do it then. Where have I used name calling?[/quote]
You have compared me to Nancy Pelosi (which is one of the worst insults you can dole on a person), called me lazy, told me to squat in a corner with sloth. Commented on my woeful prayer and scripture life, and called me an uncommitted Christian.Perhaps I should have been more general in referring to direct insults, rather than name calling. Nevertheless it’s the stuff of middle school 12 yr olds, not the stuff of grown men who supposedly read the bible every 3 months.
So let’s examine. You don’t like what I have to say, you cannot properly counter argue, so you reduce to leveling insults, but your pride will not allow you to take it back? You think you’ve done well?
Forgive me, but I don’t think your here for honest conversation at all, I think your here for self-aggrandizement. I guess you thought Catholics were dumb and didn’t know their faith. Surprise! We do and we are not ashamed.
[/quote]
Here is a listing by page from this thread of your crass and offensive style. They are necessarily taken out of context, but it is only necessary to note word choice to make my point:
p29
you really really hate the church (written after I stated specifically I do not)
I think your afraid of the truth
focus on veneer
you cannot properly counter argue
I think your here for self-aggrandizement
pg 28
And you’re damn right a sinner.
Any idiot can cut and paste a wall of scripture passages
What kind of character do you have?
pg 26
You were being petty. Quit whining about being called out on it
Look, you came in here acting like a jerk
Now your harping
pg 25
This seem to me very pharasitical
Quit being petty.
pg 24
What you brought up about Catholicism is ridiculously petty
Why are you afraid to deal with real issues?
It’s been explained and it’s petty
Put up or shut up, Chen.
Yep, KingKai definitely handed you your own ass.
pg 22
then your either acting hateful or your being plain dumb.
When you preach the garbage you preach
pg 16
What the hell are you talking about?
Or you can knock off your rediculous bullshit
pg 15
Maybe you should take a hike until you are interest in fair honest dialog. For a religious person, you have been anything but fair and honest, here.
pg 14
but cut the crap
pg 13
What does this arrogance stem from?
pg 11
tripe
The difference between the educated and the ignorant is staggering.
(end of list)
These are all referring to me. So Pat, if I have used sarcasm, I think I have some cause. I have already apologized for my use of sarcasm though. However, if your rude style continues, I may throw in some more.
Actually, I personally care nothing about the above. I post it here just to give you a chance to compare what you are complaining about in me to your own posts. Feel free to be as rude as you want, just don’t complain about others, it’s hypocritical.
I don’t plan to put any more time into this “reconciliation” effort. Draw whatever conclusion you want.
[quote]Mr. Chen wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]Mr. Chen wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
Disagreements I don’t have a problem with. Blatant insults, mocking, name calling and drive by accusations with out a shred of evidence to back it up.
Please don’t waste my time saying you haven’t done this. You have, you know it, the proof is on these pages, all we have to do is go back and look.
[/quote]
I feel no need to take back anything I’ve written. I have expressed my opinions in as straightforward a manner as I can.
Let’s do it then. Where have I used name calling?[/quote]
You have compared me to Nancy Pelosi (which is one of the worst insults you can dole on a person), called me lazy, told me to squat in a corner with sloth. Commented on my woeful prayer and scripture life, and called me an uncommitted Christian.Perhaps I should have been more general in referring to direct insults, rather than name calling. Nevertheless it’s the stuff of middle school 12 yr olds, not the stuff of grown men who supposedly read the bible every 3 months.
So let’s examine. You don’t like what I have to say, you cannot properly counter argue, so you reduce to leveling insults, but your pride will not allow you to take it back? You think you’ve done well?
Forgive me, but I don’t think your here for honest conversation at all, I think your here for self-aggrandizement. I guess you thought Catholics were dumb and didn’t know their faith. Surprise! We do and we are not ashamed.
[/quote]
Here is a listing by page from this thread of your crass and offensive style. They are necessarily taken out of context, but it is only necessary to note word choice to make my point:
p29
you really really hate the church (written after I stated specifically I do not)
I think your afraid of the truth
focus on veneer
you cannot properly counter argue
I think your here for self-aggrandizement
pg 28
And you’re damn right a sinner.
Any idiot can cut and paste a wall of scripture passages
What kind of character do you have?
pg 26
You were being petty. Quit whining about being called out on it
Look, you came in here acting like a jerk
Now your harping
pg 25
This seem to me very pharasitical
Quit being petty.
pg 24
What you brought up about Catholicism is ridiculously petty
Why are you afraid to deal with real issues?
It’s been explained and it’s petty
Put up or shut up, Chen.
Yep, KingKai definitely handed you your own ass.
pg 22
then your either acting hateful or your being plain dumb.
When you preach the garbage you preach
pg 16
What the hell are you talking about?
Or you can knock off your rediculous bullshit
pg 15
Maybe you should take a hike until you are interest in fair honest dialog. For a religious person, you have been anything but fair and honest, here.
pg 14
but cut the crap
pg 13
What does this arrogance stem from?
pg 11
tripe
The difference between the educated and the ignorant is staggering.
(end of list)
These are all referring to me. So Pat, if I have used sarcasm, I think I have some cause. I have already apologized for my use of sarcasm though. However, if your rude style continues, I may throw in some more.
Actually, I personally care nothing about the above. I post it here just to give you a chance to compare what you are complaining about in me to your own posts. Feel free to be as rude as you want, just don’t complain about others, it’s hypocritical.
I don’t plan to put any more time into this “reconciliation” effort. Draw whatever conclusion you want.
[/quote]
I give as I get. I told you that. You insult me, I will return in kind. And you have and continue to act like a jerk. I can only call it as I see it.
Yeah the difference between willful ignorance and educated is indeed stunning. You think your bloody brilliant, I think your blinder than a bat.
It’s sad you cannot get past things and make things right. It really does speak to who you really are. Maybe you do read them (the scriptures, that is), but you don’t understand the words on the page. Yes, they are elusive to you, by demonstration. Words are cheap actions speak. Your actions are as meaningless as your words.
You can double speak your ‘supposed’ faith all you want. In the end, your fruit is rotten, because of your actions, which is sad because it doesn’t have to be.
You can appeal to whom you want, it won’t vindicate you.
I thought you could be a man about it, apparently not.
When you can get past your ego, my offer still stands. I will forget the past, forgive completely and start anew as if the prior never happened.
In the meantime, when you spread lies about my faith, I will speak up and stop it.
Are you from England? You’ve learned to curse like an Englishman I see. It refers to the precious blood of Christ you know.
I’ve known many foul mouthed Catholics. It doesn’t surprise me.
[quote]Mr. Chen wrote:
I’ve known many foul mouthed Catholics. It doesn’t surprise me.[/quote]
What doesn’t?
[quote]Cortes wrote:
[quote]Mr. Chen wrote:
I’ve known many foul mouthed Catholics. It doesn’t surprise me.[/quote]
What doesn’t?
[/quote]
It doesn’t surprise me that Pat has a foul mouth.
Perhaps, as a Catholic, you take offense. But it’s a simple statement of my own experience. I’ve never known a RC to have a cleaner mouth, or lifestyle in any degree better than anyone not claiming Christ. This is not to say I assume it.
[quote]Mr. Chen wrote:
[quote]Cortes wrote:
[quote]Mr. Chen wrote:
I’ve known many foul mouthed Catholics. It doesn’t surprise me.[/quote]
What doesn’t?
[/quote]
It doesn’t surprise me that Pat has a foul mouth.
Perhaps, as a Catholic, you take offense. But it’s a simple statement of my own experience. I’ve never known a RC to have a cleaner mouth, or lifestyle in any degree better than anyone not claiming Christ. This is not to say I assume it.[/quote]
And what does the barometer of foul language measure?
[quote]Cortes wrote:
[quote]Mr. Chen wrote:
[quote]Cortes wrote:
[quote]Mr. Chen wrote:
I’ve known many foul mouthed Catholics. It doesn’t surprise me.[/quote]
What doesn’t?
[/quote]
It doesn’t surprise me that Pat has a foul mouth.
Perhaps, as a Catholic, you take offense. But it’s a simple statement of my own experience. I’ve never known a RC to have a cleaner mouth, or lifestyle in any degree better than anyone not claiming Christ. This is not to say I assume it.[/quote]
And what does the barometer of foul language measure?
[/quote]
I consider Pat’s above just as bad as directly taking the Lord’s name in vain, although you won’t find a specific prohibition on the word “bloody” in Scripture.
This is how Paul speaks of the blood of Christ:
1Pe 1:18-19 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; (19) But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
Contrast it with Pat’s usage. My barometer says Pat’s mouth is corrupt, foul.