Catholic Q&A Continues

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]lanchefan1 wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]honest_lifter wrote:
Hey Pat! Thank a lot! I am training hard (start two-a-day training soon for both an oly meet and a strong man comp) and trying to put on 6-8 lbs of mass this summer.

How is your injury doing? I was thinking about that lately. Any improvements?
[/quote]

Not good, no improvements. Had another MRI, going to the dr again. If we could get the edema to relent, I would be fine… We’ll see what happens next…[/quote]

Good luck! Hopeuflly it is good news![/quote]

Thanks for the well wishes… The lower lumbar musculature looks like a Rorscach Ink Blot test where he presumably cut on the MRI (I get copies of all of them) he said it was tough to cut, I am wondering if he used a chain saw, or left his watch or something. What ever it is, it’s not going away as he counted on… Needless to say I can’t do deadlifts right now.[/quote]

Don’t worry, you can always do squats in the interim… :slight_smile: Obviously a jest, and I am sorry things haven’t improved. Keep us posted, as I am genuinely hoping you recover fully.

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:
In Havanaa’s Plaza of the Revolution today, Pope Benedict gave a humanistic spiritually impotent, anti biblical religious rant smacking as usual more of political liberation theology than the Gospel of Jesus Christ.[/quote]Yes, I read every word and I just had to fix that.
[/quote]

Somewhat inflammatory. I reject your accusation. Every where the Pope goes people convert to Jesus Christ. The atheist country lined 24 miles of road, 10 persons deep on both sides to mob the pop mobile as he traveled to his hotel. Young men from all over Mexico snuck through the night to sing to the Pope, creeping as close as security would let them at the break of dawn.

Yes, very impotent. LAWL![/quote]

It doesn’t much matter, Jesus already predestined them to hell. He hates everybody but like 200 people, remember?

[quote]honest_lifter wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]lanchefan1 wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]honest_lifter wrote:
Hey Pat! Thank a lot! I am training hard (start two-a-day training soon for both an oly meet and a strong man comp) and trying to put on 6-8 lbs of mass this summer.

How is your injury doing? I was thinking about that lately. Any improvements?
[/quote]

Not good, no improvements. Had another MRI, going to the dr again. If we could get the edema to relent, I would be fine… We’ll see what happens next…[/quote]

Good luck! Hopeuflly it is good news![/quote]

Thanks for the well wishes… The lower lumbar musculature looks like a Rorscach Ink Blot test where he presumably cut on the MRI (I get copies of all of them) he said it was tough to cut, I am wondering if he used a chain saw, or left his watch or something. What ever it is, it’s not going away as he counted on… Needless to say I can’t do deadlifts right now.[/quote]

Don’t worry, you can always do squats in the interim… :slight_smile: Obviously a jest, and I am sorry things haven’t improved. Keep us posted, as I am genuinely hoping you recover fully.
[/quote]

I very much appreciate that, and being a man of prayer, I’ll take yours… Life has many seasons, I am stuck in winter. One way or another, the sun will shine at my back door again. :slight_smile: Keep pumpin’ HL…
I’ll quit whining as I don’t want to turn this in to a pity party…

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:
In Havanaa’s Plaza of the Revolution today, Pope Benedict gave a humanistic spiritually impotent, anti biblical religious rant smacking as usual more of political liberation theology than the Gospel of Jesus Christ.[/quote]Yes, I read every word and I just had to fix that.
[/quote]

Somewhat inflammatory. I reject your accusation. Every where the Pope goes people convert to Jesus Christ. The atheist country lined 24 miles of road, 10 persons deep on both sides to mob the pop mobile as he traveled to his hotel. Young men from all over Mexico snuck through the night to sing to the Pope, creeping as close as security would let them at the break of dawn.

Yes, very impotent. LAWL![/quote]But he is SPIRITUALLY impotent Chris. Crowds mean nothing man. =[ You don’t understand. That’s a worldly standard and if valid would make all kinds of people credible. That speech he gave was mostly political with some Christian topping. Those people he’s glorifying have nothing to do with the gospel, they’re political prisoners and Jesus did not come here to make the world a just and wonderful place. He came to save His people from their sins. Where was that? “REPENT, surrender to the one true and living God in Christ and live. It makes no difference what these tyrants do to you if you belong to the God they deny.” Where? Where was that?

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
But he is SPIRITUALLY impotent Chris.[/quote]

Well, that’s interesting. You know then Pope personally? Because I’ve seen 1000’s of people, personally, convert to Jesus Christ when the Pope comes through.

That’s strange that you say it’s political with only Christian topping, since the Ladies in White are CATHOLIC women who protest the imprisonment of CATHOLICS by the ATHEIST communist government.

They have nothing to do with the Gospel? Tirib, do you even know who the Ladies in White are? DO you know who was persecuted by the Communists? I’ll give you a clue, it starts with a C and rhymes with catholic.

[quote]He came to save His people from their sins. Where was that? “REPENT, surrender to the one true and living God in Christ and live. It makes no difference what these tyrants do to you if you belong to the God they deny.” Where? Where was that?
[/quote]

I don’t know, since I don’t have a copy of the sermon. Why don’t you find one and read it for yourself instead of making ad ignorantiam arguments and acting like an article about what he said, says everything he said. You’d be a wonderful Gotcha journalist.

[quote]pat wrote:

The wonderful ‘liberation’ you speak of has yielded 36,000 denominations and above those 36,000 denominations, you have two opposing factions, arminaism vs. calvinism. So who is right? You or the calvinists? Who is right you or the other 35,999 denominations?
[/quote]

Why is it important for everyone to have the exact identical beliefs? I think everyone SHOULD agree on the basics like the 10 commandments and 'Do unto others…" and 'Love God (and good), but beyond that, is it really all that important in the big scheme?

Why do we have so many different races, languages, climates, cuisines, past times, lifestyles, etc.? Why would/should we all have identical religious beliefs?

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:<<< They have nothing to do with the Gospel? Tirib, do you even know who the Ladies in White are? DO you know who was persecuted by the Communists? I’ll give you a clue, it starts with a C and rhymes with catholic.
[/quote]I was referring to “Dr. Oscar Biscet, Elizardo Sanchez” who were named, but it’s all speculation anyway according to a more careful reading of the article, which if accurate I stand by my assessment of what he said. I’ll find a copy (try) before saying more because it’s highly illustrative.

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
I was referring to “Dr. Oscar Biscet, Elizardo Sanchez” who were named, but it’s all speculation anyway according to a more careful reading of the article, which if accurate I stand by my assessment of what he said. I’ll find a copy (try) before saying more because it’s highly illustrative.
[/quote]

  1. Dr. Oscar Biscet was a Catholic who protested against the crimes against human rights.
  2. Can you define humanism.
  3. B16 preached follow Jesus, and Cuba establish religious freedom so the Church can preach Jesus.

Homily:

[quote]Dear Brothers and Sisters,

â??Blessed are you, Lord Godâ?¦, and blessed is your holy and glorious nameâ?? (Dan 3:52). This hymn of blessing from the Book of Daniel resounds today in our liturgy, inviting us repeatedly to bless and thank God. We are a part of that great chorus which praises the Lord without ceasing. We join in this concert of thanksgiving, and we offer our joyful and confident voice, which seeks to consolidate the journey of faith in love and truth.

â??Blessed be Godâ?? who gathers us in this historic square so that we may more profoundly enter into his life. I feel great joy in being here with you today to celebrate Holy Mass during this Jubilee Year devoted to Our Lady of Charity of El Cobre.

I greet with cordial affection Cardinal Jaime Ortega y Alamino, Archbishop of Havana, and I thank him for the kind words which he has addressed to me on your behalf. I extend warm greetings to the Cardinals and to my brother Bishops of Cuba and other countries who wished to take part in this solemn celebration. I also greet the priests, seminarians, men and women religious, and all the lay faithful gathered here, as well as the civil authorities who join us.

In todayâ??s first reading, the three young men persecuted by the Babylonian king preferred to face death by fire rather than betray their conscience and their faith. They experienced the strength to â??give thanks, glorify and praise Godâ?? in the conviction that the Lord of the universe and of history would not abandon them to death and annihilation. Truly, God never abandons his children, he never forgets them. He is above us and is able to save us by his power. At the same time, he is near to his people, and through his Son Jesus Christ he has wished to make his dwelling place among us in.

â??If you continue in my word, you are truly my disciples, and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you freeâ?? (Jn 8:31). In this text from todayâ??s Gospel, Jesus reveals himself as the Son of God the Father, the Saviour, the one who alone can show us the truth and give genuine freedom. His teaching provokes resistance and disquiet among his hearers, and he accuses them of seeking to kill him, alluding to the supreme sacrifice of the Cross, already imminent. Even so, he exhorts them to believe, to keep his word, so as to know the truth which redeems and dignifies.

The truth is a desire of the human person, the search for which always supposes the exercise of authentic freedom. Many, however, prefer shortcuts, trying to avoid this task. Some, like Pontius Pilate, ironically question the possibility of even knowing what truth is (cf. Jn 18:38), proclaiming that man is incapable of knowing it or denying that there exists a truth valid for all. This attitude, as in the case of skepticism and relativism, changes hearts, making them cold, wavering, distant from others and closed. They, like the Roman governor, wash their hands and let the water of history drain away without taking a stand.

On the other hand, there are those who wrongly interpret this search for the truth, leading them to irrationality and fanaticism; they close themselves up in â??their truthâ??, and try to impose it on others. These are like the blind scribes who, upon seeing Jesus beaten and bloody, cry out furiously, â??Crucify him!â?? (cf. Jn 19:6). Anyone who acts irrationally cannot become a disciple of Jesus. Faith and reason are necessary and complementary in the pursuit of truth. God created man with an innate vocation to the truth and he gave him reason for this purpose. Certainly, it is not irrationality but rather the yearning for truth which the Christian faith promotes. Each human being has to seek the truth and to choose it when he or she finds it, even at the risk of embracing sacrifices.

Furthermore, the truth which stands above humanity is an unavoidable condition for attaining freedom, since in it we discover the foundation of an ethics on which all can converge and which contains clear and precise indications concerning life and death, duties and rights, marriage, family and society, in short, regarding the inviolable dignity of the human person. This ethical patrimony can bring together different cultures, peoples and religions, authorities and citizens, citizens among themselves, and believers in Christ and non-believers.

Christianity, in highlighting those values which sustain ethics, does not impose, but rather proposes Christâ??s invitation to know the truth which sets us free. The believer is called to offer that truth to his contemporaries, as did the Lord, even before the dark omen of rejection and the Cross. The personal encounter with the one who is Truth in person compels us to share this treasure with others, especially by our witness.

Dear friends, do not hesitate to follow Jesus Christ. In him we find the truth about God and about mankind. He helps us to overcome our selfishness, to rise above our ambitions and to conquer all that oppresses us. The one who does evil, who sins, becomes a slave of sin and will never attain freedom (cf. Jn 8:34). Only by renouncing hatred and our hard and blind hearts will we be free and a new life will well up in us.

Convinced that it is Christ who is the true measure of man, and knowing that in him we find the strength needed to face every trial, I wish to proclaim openly Jesus Christ as the way, the truth and the life. In him everyone will find complete freedom, the light to understand reality more deeply and to transform it by the renewing power of love.

The Church lives to make others sharers in the one thing she possesses, which is none other than Christ, our hope of glory (cf. Col1:27). To carry out this duty, she must count on basic religious freedom, which consists in her being able to proclaim and to celebrate her faith also in public, bringing to others the message of love, reconciliation and peace which Jesus brought to the world. It must be said with joy that in Cuba steps have been taken to enable the Church to carry out her essential mission of expressing her faith openly and publicly. Nonetheless, this must continue forwards, and I wish to encourage the countryâ??s Government authorities to strengthen what has already been achieved and advance along this path of genuine service to the true good of Cuban society as a whole.

The right to freedom of religion, both in its private and in its public dimension, manifests the unity of the human person, who is at once a citizen and a believer. It also legitimizes the fact that believers have a contribution to make to the building up of society. Strengthening religious freedom consolidates social bonds, nourishes the hope of a better world, creates favorable conditions for peace and harmonious development, while at the same time establishing solid foundations for securing the rights of future generations.

When the Church upholds this human right, she is not claiming any special privileges for herself. She wishes only to be faithful to the command of her divine founder, conscious that, where Christ is present, mankind becomes more human and founds its consistency. This is why the Church seeks to give witness by her preaching and teaching, both in catechesis and in schools and universities. It is greatly to be hoped that the moment will soon arrive when, here too, the Church can bring to the arenas of knowledge the benefits of the mission which the Lord entrusted to her and which she can never neglect.

A shining example of this commitment was the outstanding priest F�©lix Varela, educator and teacher, an illustrious son of this city of Havana, who has taken his place in Cuban history as the first one who taught his people how to think. Father Varela offers us a path to a true social transformation: to form virtuous men and women in order to forge a worthy and free nation, for this transformation depends on manâ??s spiritual life, in as much as â??there is no authentic fatherland without virtueâ?? (Letters to Elpidio, Letter 6, Madrid 1836, 220). Cuba and the world need change, but this will occur only if each one is in a position to seek the truth and chooses the way of love, sowing reconciliation and fraternity.

Invoking the maternal protection of Mary Most Holy, let us ask that each time we participate in the Eucharist we will also become witnesses to that charity which responds to evil with good (cf. Rom 12:51), offering ourselves as a living sacrifice to the one who lovingly gave himself up for our sake. Let us walk in the light of Christ who alone can destroy the darkness of error. And let us beg him that, with the courage and strength of the saints, we may be able, without fear or rancor but freely, generously and consistently, to respond to God. Amen.

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/28/v-fullstory/2718835/full-text-of-pope-benedict-xvis.html#storylink=cpy [/quote]

[quote]pat wrote:
You have said that some bad people have done some bad things, to which I pointed out that not only is that everywhere, but also in various protestant denominations. You have been less then clear. [/quote]

Let’s see, I referenced the John Jay Report: John Jay Report - Wikipedia

You said something about only a few cases were proven and something about them being old. Sorry, I can’t find the post, so I may not be accurately reproducing your words.

The report states:

  • substantiated 6,700 accusations
  • 384 were charged resulting in 252 convictions and 100 prison sentences

“The Church was widely criticized when it was discovered that some bishops knew about some of the alleged crimes committed, but reassigned the accused instead of seeking to have them permanently removed from the priesthood.”

Do you think the convicted priests should be defrocked Pat? Were they?

Note also the civil authority had to make a special law to remind the church that child abuse by priests is to be reported to the police.

Yes, this stuff happens in all kinds of churches, but you have to admit the number of incidents taking place in RC churches is no less than STAGGERING.

It’s great your willing to talk about specifics Pat. Can you answer my questions above?

[quote]Dear Brothers and Sisters,

“Blessed are you, Lord God, and blessed is your holy and glorious name” (Dan 3:52). This hymn of blessing from the Book of Daniel resounds today in our liturgy, inviting us repeatedly to bless and thank God. We are a part of that great chorus which praises the Lord without ceasing. We join in this concert of thanksgiving, and we offer our joyful and confident voice, which seeks to consolidate the journey of faith in love and truth.

“Blessed be God” who gathers us in this historic square so that we may more profoundly enter into his life. I feel great joy in being here with you today to celebrate Holy Mass during this Jubilee Year devoted to Our Lady of Charity of El Cobre.

I greet with cordial affection Cardinal Jaime Ortega y Alamino, Archbishop of Havana, and I thank him for the kind words which he has addressed to me on your behalf. I extend warm greetings to the Cardinals and to my brother Bishops of Cuba and other countries who wished to take part in this solemn celebration. I also greet the priests, seminarians, men and women religious, and all the lay faithful gathered here, as well as the civil authorities who join us.

In today’s first reading, the three young men persecuted by the Babylonian king preferred to face death by fire rather than betray their conscience and their faith. They experienced the strength to give thanks, glorify and praise God in the conviction that the Lord of the universe and of history would not abandon them to death and annihilation. Truly, God never abandons his children, he never forgets them. He is above us and is able to save us by his power. At the same time, he is near to his people, and through his Son Jesus Christ he has wished to make his dwelling place among us in.

“If you continue in my word, you are truly my disciples, and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free” (Jn 8:31). In this text from today’s Gospel, Jesus reveals himself as the Son of God the Father, the Saviour, the one who alone can show us the truth and give genuine freedom. His teaching provokes resistance and disquiet among his hearers, and he accuses them of seeking to kill him, alluding to the supreme sacrifice of the Cross, already imminent. Even so, he exhorts them to believe, to keep his word, so as to know the truth which redeems and dignifies.

The truth is a desire of the human person, the search for which always supposes the exercise of authentic freedom. Many, however, prefer shortcuts, trying to avoid this task. Some, like Pontius Pilate, ironically question the possibility of even knowing what truth is (cf. Jn 18:38), proclaiming that man is incapable of knowing it or denying that there exists a truth valid for all. This attitude, as in the case of skepticism and relativism, changes hearts, making them cold, wavering, distant from others and closed. They, like the Roman governor, wash their hands and let the water of history drain away without taking a stand.

On the other hand, there are those who wrongly interpret this search for the truth, leading them to irrationality and fanaticism; they close themselves up in “their truth”, and try to impose it on others. These are like the blind scribes who, upon seeing Jesus beaten and bloody, cry out furiously, “Crucify him!” (cf. Jn 19:6). Anyone who acts irrationally cannot become a disciple of Jesus. Faith and reason are necessary and complementary in the pursuit of truth. God created man with an innate vocation to the truth and he gave him reason for this purpose. Certainly, it is not irrationality but rather the yearning for truth which the Christian faith promotes. Each human being has to seek the truth and to choose it when he or she finds it, even at the risk of embracing sacrifices.

Furthermore, the truth which stands above humanity is an unavoidable condition for attaining freedom, since in it we discover the foundation of an ethics on which all can converge and which contains clear and precise indications concerning life and death, duties and rights, marriage, family and society, in short, regarding the inviolable dignity of the human person. This ethical patrimony can bring together different cultures, peoples and religions, authorities and citizens, citizens among themselves, and believers in Christ and non-believers.

Christianity, in highlighting those values which sustain ethics, does not impose, but rather proposes Christ’s invitation to know the truth which sets us free. The believer is called to offer that truth to his contemporaries, as did the Lord, even before the dark omen of rejection and the Cross. The personal encounter with the one who is Truth in person compels us to share this treasure with others, especially by our witness.

Dear friends, do not hesitate to follow Jesus Christ. In him we find the truth about God and about mankind. He helps us to overcome our selfishness, to rise above our ambitions and to conquer all that oppresses us. The one who does evil, who sins, becomes a slave of sin and will never attain freedom (cf. Jn 8:34). Only by renouncing hatred and our hard and blind hearts will we be free and a new life will well up in us.

Convinced that it is Christ who is the true measure of man, and knowing that in him we find the strength needed to face every trial, I wish to proclaim openly Jesus Christ as the way, the truth and the life. In him everyone will find complete freedom, the light to understand reality more deeply and to transform it by the renewing power of love.

The Church lives to make others sharers in the one thing she possesses, which is none other than Christ, our hope of glory (cf. Col1:27). To carry out this duty, she must count on basic religious freedom, which consists in her being able to proclaim and to celebrate her faith also in public, bringing to others the message of love, reconciliation and peace which Jesus brought to the world. It must be said with joy that in Cuba steps have been taken to enable the Church to carry out her essential mission of expressing her faith openly and publicly. Nonetheless, this must continue forwards, and I wish to encourage the country’s Government authorities to strengthen what has already been achieved and advance along this path of genuine service to the true good of Cuban society as a whole.

The right to freedom of religion, both in its private and in its public dimension, manifests the unity of the human person, who is at once a citizen and a believer. It also legitimizes the fact that believers have a contribution to make to the building up of society. Strengthening religious freedom consolidates social bonds, nourishes the hope of a better world, creates favorable conditions for peace and harmonious development, while at the same time establishing solid foundations for securing the rights of future generations.

When the Church upholds this human right, she is not claiming any special privileges for herself. She wishes only to be faithful to the command of her divine founder, conscious that, where Christ is present, mankind becomes more human and founds its consistency. This is why the Church seeks to give witness by her preaching and teaching, both in catechesis and in schools and universities. It is greatly to be hoped that the moment will soon arrive when, here too, the Church can bring to the arenas of knowledge the benefits of the mission which the Lord entrusted to her and which she can never neglect.

A shining example of this commitment was the outstanding priest Felix Varela, educator and teacher, an illustrious son of this city of Havana, who has taken his place in Cuban history as the first one who taught his people how to think. Father Varela offers us a path to a true social transformation: to form virtuous men and women in order to forge a worthy and free nation, for this transformation depends on man’s spiritual life, in as much as “there is no authentic fatherland without virtue” (Letters to Elpidio, Letter 6, Madrid 1836, 220). Cuba and the world need change, but this will occur only if each one is in a position to seek the truth and chooses the way of love, sowing reconciliation and fraternity.

Invoking the maternal protection of Mary Most Holy, let us ask that each time we participate in the Eucharist we will also become witnesses to that charity which responds to evil with good (cf. Rom 12:51), offering ourselves as a living sacrifice to the one who lovingly gave himself up for our sake. Let us walk in the light of Christ who alone can destroy the darkness of error. And let us beg him that, with the courage and strength of the saints, we may be able, without fear or rancor but freely, generously and consistently, to respond to God. Amen.

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/28/v-fullstory/2718835/full-text-of-pope-benedict-xvis.html#storylink=cpy [/quote]

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Mr. Chen wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Mr. Chen wrote:
Since the Roman Church is not the same as the universal church[/quote]

I don’t get this, can you explain this to me? Well mainly why you call her the Roman Church.[/quote]
Well, very briefly. But you should know this because it’s standard Protestant understanding.[/quote]

I was a Protestant for 6 years. I never held this and neither did even the most rabid anti-Catholic friends that I kept. Mostly because they actually knew history. Further this is an ad Populum diversion.

[quote]

  1. She is not the true catholic church, so I dislike to always use catholic when referring to her.[/quote]

Point to the real one then.

She got her start at pentecost.

HOw does this have to do with the Catholic Church is not the Catholic Church?[/quote]

I’ll just answer your response to my #1:

…his body’s sake, which is the church: (Col 1:24 KJV)

And now I will ask you- How does one become part of the body of Christ? You just really need the bible verse to answer.

The editor froze on the previous page so I had to put it here:

[quote]Dear Brothers and Sisters,

“Blessed are you, Lord God, and blessed is your holy and glorious name” (Dan 3:52). This hymn of blessing from the Book of Daniel resounds today in our liturgy, inviting us repeatedly to bless and thank God. We are a part of that great chorus which praises the Lord without ceasing. We join in this concert of thanksgiving, and we offer our joyful and confident voice, which seeks to consolidate the journey of faith in love and truth.

“Blessed be God” who gathers us in this historic square so that we may more profoundly enter into his life. I feel great joy in being here with you today to celebrate Holy Mass during this Jubilee Year devoted to Our Lady of Charity of El Cobre.

I greet with cordial affection Cardinal Jaime Ortega y Alamino, Archbishop of Havana, and I thank him for the kind words which he has addressed to me on your behalf. I extend warm greetings to the Cardinals and to my brother Bishops of Cuba and other countries who wished to take part in this solemn celebration. I also greet the priests, seminarians, men and women religious, and all the lay faithful gathered here, as well as the civil authorities who join us.

In today’s first reading, the three young men persecuted by the Babylonian king preferred to face death by fire rather than betray their conscience and their faith. They experienced the strength to give thanks, glorify and praise God in the conviction that the Lord of the universe and of history would not abandon them to death and annihilation. Truly, God never abandons his children, he never forgets them. He is above us and is able to save us by his power. At the same time, he is near to his people, and through his Son Jesus Christ he has wished to make his dwelling place among us in.

“If you continue in my word, you are truly my disciples, and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free” (Jn 8:31). In this text from today’s Gospel, Jesus reveals himself as the Son of God the Father, the Saviour, the one who alone can show us the truth and give genuine freedom. His teaching provokes resistance and disquiet among his hearers, and he accuses them of seeking to kill him, alluding to the supreme sacrifice of the Cross, already imminent. Even so, he exhorts them to believe, to keep his word, so as to know the truth which redeems and dignifies.

The truth is a desire of the human person, the search for which always supposes the exercise of authentic freedom. Many, however, prefer shortcuts, trying to avoid this task. Some, like Pontius Pilate, ironically question the possibility of even knowing what truth is (cf. Jn 18:38), proclaiming that man is incapable of knowing it or denying that there exists a truth valid for all. This attitude, as in the case of skepticism and relativism, changes hearts, making them cold, wavering, distant from others and closed. They, like the Roman governor, wash their hands and let the water of history drain away without taking a stand.

On the other hand, there are those who wrongly interpret this search for the truth, leading them to irrationality and fanaticism; they close themselves up in “their truth”, and try to impose it on others. These are like the blind scribes who, upon seeing Jesus beaten and bloody, cry out furiously, “Crucify him!” (cf. Jn 19:6). Anyone who acts irrationally cannot become a disciple of Jesus. Faith and reason are necessary and complementary in the pursuit of truth. God created man with an innate vocation to the truth and he gave him reason for this purpose. Certainly, it is not irrationality but rather the yearning for truth which the Christian faith promotes. Each human being has to seek the truth and to choose it when he or she finds it, even at the risk of embracing sacrifices.

Furthermore, the truth which stands above humanity is an unavoidable condition for attaining freedom, since in it we discover the foundation of an ethics on which all can converge and which contains clear and precise indications concerning life and death, duties and rights, marriage, family and society, in short, regarding the inviolable dignity of the human person. This ethical patrimony can bring together different cultures, peoples and religions, authorities and citizens, citizens among themselves, and believers in Christ and non-believers.

Christianity, in highlighting those values which sustain ethics, does not impose, but rather proposes Christ’s invitation to know the truth which sets us free. The believer is called to offer that truth to his contemporaries, as did the Lord, even before the dark omen of rejection and the Cross. The personal encounter with the one who is Truth in person compels us to share this treasure with others, especially by our witness.

Dear friends, do not hesitate to follow Jesus Christ. In him we find the truth about God and about mankind. He helps us to overcome our selfishness, to rise above our ambitions and to conquer all that oppresses us. The one who does evil, who sins, becomes a slave of sin and will never attain freedom (cf. Jn 8:34). Only by renouncing hatred and our hard and blind hearts will we be free and a new life will well up in us.

Convinced that it is Christ who is the true measure of man, and knowing that in him we find the strength needed to face every trial, I wish to proclaim openly Jesus Christ as the way, the truth and the life. In him everyone will find complete freedom, the light to understand reality more deeply and to transform it by the renewing power of love.

The Church lives to make others sharers in the one thing she possesses, which is none other than Christ, our hope of glory (cf. Col1:27). To carry out this duty, she must count on basic religious freedom, which consists in her being able to proclaim and to celebrate her faith also in public, bringing to others the message of love, reconciliation and peace which Jesus brought to the world. It must be said with joy that in Cuba steps have been taken to enable the Church to carry out her essential mission of expressing her faith openly and publicly. Nonetheless, this must continue forwards, and I wish to encourage the country’s Government authorities to strengthen what has already been achieved and advance along this path of genuine service to the true good of Cuban society as a whole.

The right to freedom of religion, both in its private and in its public dimension, manifests the unity of the human person, who is at once a citizen and a believer. It also legitimizes the fact that believers have a contribution to make to the building up of society. Strengthening religious freedom consolidates social bonds, nourishes the hope of a better world, creates favorable conditions for peace and harmonious development, while at the same time establishing solid foundations for securing the rights of future generations.

When the Church upholds this human right, she is not claiming any special privileges for herself. She wishes only to be faithful to the command of her divine founder, conscious that, where Christ is present, mankind becomes more human and founds its consistency. This is why the Church seeks to give witness by her preaching and teaching, both in catechesis and in schools and universities. It is greatly to be hoped that the moment will soon arrive when, here too, the Church can bring to the arenas of knowledge the benefits of the mission which the Lord entrusted to her and which she can never neglect.

A shining example of this commitment was the outstanding priest Felix Varela, educator and teacher, an illustrious son of this city of Havana, who has taken his place in Cuban history as the first one who taught his people how to think. Father Varela offers us a path to a true social transformation: to form virtuous men and women in order to forge a worthy and free nation, for this transformation depends on man’s spiritual life, in as much as “there is no authentic fatherland without virtue” (Letters to Elpidio, Letter 6, Madrid 1836, 220). Cuba and the world need change, but this will occur only if each one is in a position to seek the truth and chooses the way of love, sowing reconciliation and fraternity.

Invoking the maternal protection of Mary Most Holy, let us ask that each time we participate in the Eucharist we will also become witnesses to that charity which responds to evil with good (cf. Rom 12:51), offering ourselves as a living sacrifice to the one who lovingly gave himself up for our sake. Let us walk in the light of Christ who alone can destroy the darkness of error. And let us beg him that, with the courage and strength of the saints, we may be able, without fear or rancor but freely, generously and consistently, to respond to God. Amen.

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/28/v-fullstory/2718835/full-text-of-pope-benedict-xvis.html#storylink=cpy [/quote]I’ll show ya a trick sometime using Notepad++ to clean up all that junk when copying and pasting from an article somewhere. Took me about 3 minutes for all this though it still ain’t perfect. Also you need a space on either end of a posted link or the forum software treats everything connected to the link as the link itself and ALL the quote tagging goes south. Probably to Havana to see the pope =]

Like I said, heavy “liberation” influence. Can’t do it now though Chris but I will attempt some examples when I can. Thanks btw, sincerely. You saved me some work.

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

Homily:

Dear Brothers and Sisters,

â??Blessed are you, Lord Godâ?¦, and blessed is your holy and glorious nameâ?? (Dan 3:52)…

[/quote]

Excellent. One can only hope and pray that Cuba will see some changes from this.

[quote]Mr. Chen wrote:
Do you think the convicted priests should be defrocked Pat? Were they?[/quote]

Yes, they were defrocked. But, guess what Priests have canonical rights, like you and I have civil rights. Their is a process in which is to be established to defrock a priest. Though the Modus op. is now to suspend a priest indefinitely from public ministry from a single accusation. Which, is dangerous in itself.

Note the Catholic Authority had to restate existing policy that reminded the Bishops to report incidents to the officials.

It happening once is staggering. However, statistically, all the John Jay report shows is that Catholic humans are…humans. However, what is staggering is other reports on child abuse when compared to the John Jay report.

[quote]It’s great your willing to talk about specifics Pat. Can you answer my questions above?
[/quote]

Yes, we’re willing. However, it is annoying when this is all we talk about (mostly because no one has looked at the studies with any kind of depth). We have talked about it constantly since I’ve been on here.

[quote]Leanna wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

The wonderful ‘liberation’ you speak of has yielded 36,000 denominations and above those 36,000 denominations, you have two opposing factions, arminaism vs. calvinism. So who is right? You or the calvinists? Who is right you or the other 35,999 denominations?
[/quote]

Why is it important for everyone to have the exact identical beliefs? I think everyone SHOULD agree on the basics like the 10 commandments and 'Do unto others…" and 'Love God (and good), but beyond that, is it really all that important in the big scheme?

Why do we have so many different races, languages, climates, cuisines, past times, lifestyles, etc.? Why would/should we all have identical religious beliefs? [/quote]

I was not asserting that. You’re jumping late into the game. Basically, Mr. Chen is trying have a long-dong contest between his flavor of faith and Catholicism. Basically, I am showing my dong to be bigger, by showing the short comings of ‘sola scriptura’ in that, if it were obvious as Luther believed, then everybody would get the same thing out of scripture, but they do not. To the point were people build completely different belief systems on preferred parts of scripture to detriment of others.
Turning the crowd loose with a Holy book can be dangerous…See Islam and their current struggles with violence.

In other words I am responding to attacks, not preaching that everybody should have the same beliefs.

[quote]Mr. Chen wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:
You have said that some bad people have done some bad things, to which I pointed out that not only is that everywhere, but also in various protestant denominations. You have been less then clear. [/quote]

Let’s see, I referenced the John Jay Report: John Jay Report - Wikipedia

You said something about only a few cases were proven and something about them being old. Sorry, I can’t find the post, so I may not be accurately reproducing your words.

The report states:

  • substantiated 6,700 accusations
  • 384 were charged resulting in 252 convictions and 100 prison sentences

“The Church was widely criticized when it was discovered that some bishops knew about some of the alleged crimes committed, but reassigned the accused instead of seeking to have them permanently removed from the priesthood.”

Do you think the convicted priests should be defrocked Pat? Were they?

Note also the civil authority had to make a special law to remind the church that child abuse by priests is to be reported to the police.

Yes, this stuff happens in all kinds of churches, but you have to admit the number of incidents taking place in RC churches is no less than STAGGERING.
[/quote]
Anybody found guilty of sexually abusing a child should be jailed for life in the worse of conditions. I have no sympathy for those who hurt a child.
The preist who, of those that were still alive and were convicted were relieved of their duties and sentenced to prison. Now, you cannot say an accusation equals an actual event. There have been plenty of people looking for a free money by making false claims.

You know what happens to people who get falsely accused of sexual abuse? Their lives are ruined. You know what happens to the accusers? Nothing. Do you think it’s right for people to make false accusations against other people for a check.
Should a priest falsely accused of abuse, be defrocked?

Further, I challenge you to find me a shred of Catholic doctrine that supports the abuse of a minor? Does your church have such doctrines? Do you think protestants haven’t sexually abused minors? What do you have to say for them. Is it ok, because they are protestant? Is this something you are going to pretend like it doesn’t exist? Oh it does, and in far greater numbers than you will admit. Why doesn’t it make big news? Is it so common that it isn’t news anymore?

Seems to me you need to clean up your own house, we have cleaned up ours…

Maybe you should take a hike until you are interest in fair honest dialog. For a religious person, you have been anything but fair and honest, here.

[quote]Mr. Chen wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Mr. Chen wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Mr. Chen wrote:
Since the Roman Church is not the same as the universal church[/quote]

I don’t get this, can you explain this to me? Well mainly why you call her the Roman Church.[/quote]
Well, very briefly. But you should know this because it’s standard Protestant understanding.[/quote]

I was a Protestant for 6 years. I never held this and neither did even the most rabid anti-Catholic friends that I kept. Mostly because they actually knew history. Further this is an ad Populum diversion.

Baptism.

[quote]pat wrote:
Maybe you should take a hike until you are interest in fair honest dialog. For a religious person, you have been anything but fair and honest, here. [/quote]
I thought you said we were going according to the rules on the street. On the street only substance counts Pat, and no whining. You make a post, then I make a post. We take turns; it’s fair.

Did I lie? I missed that. Did you point it out to me? I mean with detailed facts? Not just your interpretation remember, and I explained what that means. If you disagree, go back to that post and show me how I was wrong.

[quote]pat wrote:
Turning the crowd loose with a Holy book can be dangerous…See Islam and their current struggles with violence.

In other words I am responding to attacks, not preaching that everybody should have the same beliefs.[/quote]
You mean like if a certain group thinks they can require all to submit to their beliefs or be stretched on the rack until they recant and embrace mother church? If I don’t think Mary was a perpetual virgin, can I have freedom of worship? I can now, thank God for courageous Christians who were willing to suffer for the freedom to maintain their own opinion.

[quote]pat wrote:

Further, I challenge you to find me a shred of Catholic doctrine that supports the abuse of a minor? Does your church have such doctrines? Do you think protestants haven’t sexually abused minors? What do you have to say for them. Is it ok, because they are protestant? Is this something you are going to pretend like it doesn’t exist? Oh it does, and in far greater numbers than you will admit. Why doesn’t it make big news? Is it so common that it isn’t news anymore?
[/quote]
Their would be no point in making such a challenge, as I never suggested such a crime would be acceptable according to official RC doctrine. And, I also stated I know the same thing happens in other denominations. Why isn’t it reported as much? Well, I would say it’s perceived as more serious when a single institution has so many cases, regardless of the overall size of the institution, and even if the ratio of occurrence is the same with smaller groups. (For the sake of accuracy, I would like to point out that those 6000+ accusations were labelled as “substantiated” in the report. Of course, what case does or doesn’t get taken to court, doesn’t necessarily reflect the reliability of what corroborates the accusation.)

Chris asks why keep talking about it. My point in holding your feet to the fire a little on this problem is to show that shepherds of this institution are in fact no better than any other. They are not morally more fit than any other group of pastors. But if they are the true church, it seems to me there should be a difference. This group of sinful men should not be relied upon to formulate traditions that have equal weight with Scripture, and which others then are expected to follow without need for critical examination.

And what am I going to do about the protestant abusers? Why do I need to do anything? I’m an independent baptist. My church is not part of any association and has no hierarchy above the local church pastor. If he were be caught committing any type of related act, he would be immediately removed. He probably would resign himself.