[quote]forlife wrote:
orion wrote:
No, no, no the idea that you have the right to make someone help someone else by force if necessary, that makes it a medieval concept.
You’ve already advocated that medieval idea yourself, since you are on record for supporting taxes.
Again, it’s a question of where you draw the line. Don’t try to take the moral high ground by bemoaning the compulsion of other people when you support forcing others to pay taxes for causes that YOU happen to support.[/quote]
You mean the prevention of fraud and violence?
Because those are the only reasons for legitimate taxation for me.
I actually have the moral highground compared to someone who turns the res publica into a weapon to serve his selfish needs, even if those selfish needs include to vain attempt to alleviate other peoples suffering with my money because he cannot be bothered to do something against it himself.
[quote]forlife wrote:
Sloth wrote:
forlife wrote:
You can at least acknowledge that I believed the experience to be divinely inspired at the time, instead of accusing me of lying about it.
No, I can’t.
Edit: In any event, you’ve already stated that such statements are lies. If only to one’s self.
There’s a difference between saying that people can lie to themselves in the search for meaning, and accusing me of lying about an experience as a debate tactic on a message board.[/quote]
You’d have to forgive me for believing you may lack honesty in these debates. I don’t know where I could have possibly gotten that from…Maybe it was “forced” upon me.
Nonetheless, I didn’t accuse YOU of anything. I’ll spoonfeed you one more time. You used your own person as an example, for an issue concerning numerous people. See the line of questioning leading up. I responded that as I can’t be in your head, I don’t even know if you’re being honest in the first place. So, I stand by what I know, and dismiss your “inner experience.” Nothing more, and nothing less.
Of course, you’ve now said you didn’t experience such things in the first place. You just lied to yourself. That’s not my own conviction. So, now I have an even greater reason to dismiss your experiences. You don’t even believe you had them.
Edit: After this, take it however you wish. Not really concerned about it.
A strong argument could be made, in fact, that the wisdom, love, and experience gained as a husband and father would facilitate his capacity to serve his flock rather than detracting from it. Ministers in many other religions prove this to be the case.[/quote]
Edit: Can’t get my picture of Jackson up so I’ll quit. Except to say that forcing the Church to allow priests to marry wouldn’t make them any more moral and upstanding than being a priest prevents them from molesting children in the first place.
Edit: Can’t get my picture of Jackson up so I’ll quit. Except to say that forcing the Church to allow priests to marry wouldn’t make them any more moral and upstanding than being a priest prevents them from molesting children in the first place.[/quote]
Edit: Can’t get my picture of Jackson up so I’ll quit. Except to say that forcing the Church to allow priests to marry wouldn’t make them any more moral and upstanding than being a priest prevents them from molesting children in the first place.[/quote]
Citing examples of heretics says nothing about the official stance of the Catholic church. To be in good standing as a Catholic priest, you are not allowed to marry. It’s a stupid rule, and thousands of people are going to die never having experienced the joys of family life as a result.
[quote]forlife wrote:
pat wrote:
Hey, if God told you this, then who am I to argue with it. You would then do well to listen to God told you…
That’s the coward’s way out, isn’t it?
Your religion teaches that Joseph Smith was a false prophet. But God told me that he was a true prophet.
Who is right, and what does it suggest about the “evidence” we use to determine truth?[/quote]
My religion doesn’t say shit about Joe smith and could care less about him. I ain’t going to argue with what God told you to do. If you feel that God is telling you to follow the teachings of Joe Smith, then you should do it.
Your trying to create some controversy that does not exist.
If you are trying to determine if I think Jose Smith is a false prophet, my answer is that I do not know. But I don’t care either, so I am not striving to seek his legitimacy.
Edit: Can’t get my picture of Jackson up so I’ll quit. Except to say that forcing the Church to allow priests to marry wouldn’t make them any more moral and upstanding than being a priest prevents them from molesting children in the first place.
Citing examples of heretics says nothing about the official stance of the Catholic church. To be in good standing as a Catholic priest, you are not allowed to marry. It’s a stupid rule, and thousands of people are going to die never having experienced the joys of family life as a result.[/quote]
So? They chose the life they chose. Who are you to say they should have to be family people? It’s none of your business if people choose to be celibate priests or sex freaks. Who cares? It’s their business, they go into it with their eyes open.
[quote]pat wrote:
If you are trying to determine if I think Jose Smith is a false prophet, my answer is that I do not know. But I don’t care either, so I am not striving to seek his legitimacy.[/quote]
This.
For as much as Forlife doth protest, I’m starting to believe that he desperately would like to be a member of “The Church”.
[quote]pat wrote:
If you are trying to determine if I think Jose Smith is a false prophet, my answer is that I do not know. But I don’t care either, so I am not striving to seek his legitimacy.[/quote]
Joseph Smith taught that the Catholic church was the “great and abominable church”. Still think God was telling me that he is a true prophet?
You’re burying your head in the sand.
While you might find it comforting to tell everyone to believe whatever they want to believe, it doesn’t address the logical fact that it is IMPOSSIBLE for contradictory doctrines to all be correct. Obviously, at least some people are dead WRONG, and possibly all of them are.
The point is that praying to your god and getting an “answer” tells you jack shit about what is actually real.
You grew up in a religion interpreted through a human. This man is capable of all the wrongdoings any other man is capable of. This is why I do not believe in confession to a priest, he is no better than I in the eyes of God.
You cannot apply logic to God, as you cannot apply it to love. Love makes no sense, but people still partake in it.
This is the very definition of faith, that you believe despite the rationality or lack of it. In the church, Fear is also defined as the lack of faith.
[quote]MaximusB wrote:
You grew up in a religion interpreted through a human. This man is capable of all the wrongdoings any other man is capable of. This is why I do not believe in confession to a priest, he is no better than I in the eyes of God.
You cannot apply logic to God, as you cannot apply it to love. Love makes no sense, but people still partake in it.
This is the very definition of faith, that you believe despite the rationality or lack of it. In the church, Fear is also defined as the lack of faith.[/quote]
Truth and reason go hand in hand. You cannot have one without the other. If something is logically impossible, it should be acknowledged as such rather than ignored. As Thomas Jefferson put it:
[quote]forlife wrote:
MaximusB wrote:
You grew up in a religion interpreted through a human. This man is capable of all the wrongdoings any other man is capable of. This is why I do not believe in confession to a priest, he is no better than I in the eyes of God.
You cannot apply logic to God, as you cannot apply it to love. Love makes no sense, but people still partake in it.
This is the very definition of faith, that you believe despite the rationality or lack of it. In the church, Fear is also defined as the lack of faith.
Truth and reason go hand in hand. You cannot have one without the other. If something is logically impossible, it should be acknowledged as such rather than ignored. As Thomas Jefferson put it:
Man, once surrendering his reason, has no remaining guard against absurdities the most monstrous, and like a ship without a rudder, is the sport of every wind. With such persons, gullibility, which they call faith, takes the helm of reason, and the mind becomes a wreck.[/quote]
Again you believe a human ?
With no foundation, there is no person. Like a ship without a hull, rests no place for a mast, rudder, or sail. From the ground up is a person made.
