The average millionaire might only spend $21k on their car, but the average millionaire is not a car nut.
If I had to choose between a Stingray or $55k worth of hardscaping in my backyard complete with outdoor fridge and built-in pizza over, I’ll keep my 7 year old Weber, thanks.
[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:
The average millionaire might only spend $21k on their car, but the average millionaire is not a car nut.
If I had to choose between a Stingray or $55k worth of hardscaping in my backyard complete with outdoor fridge and built-in pizza over, I’ll keep my 7 year old Weber, thanks.[/quote]
But I bet the average millionaire doesn’t have that fancy backyard either. I know a lot of people who live like millionaires.
james
Yeah, I would take the Stingray too. But I’m not a car guy, I just like to harass those of you that are.
[quote]browndisaster wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]LoRez wrote:
[quote]browndisaster wrote:
[quote]Aggv wrote:
[quote]browndisaster wrote:
I really am torn as to what to buy for my first car.[/quote]
i’d suggest something you wont lose sleep over when it gets fucked up. [/quote]
You’re very right. I’ll probably get something cheap like a Focus and buy in cash. Although I’m 24 and it’s the current trend, there’s no use in getting a lease that I can only afford month to month.
But it’s tempting…
there are more in the lobby :)[/quote]
x2 on what Aggv said.
When you have the resources to keep a nice car nice, that’s the appropriate time to get a nicer car. My guess is you don’t have that yet.
I’d look at the used car market too. No need to buy new, as tempting as that might be. There are plenty of very nice, barely driven used cars out there.
It also gives you the chance to “try out” a particular style of car to see if it fits your lifestyle. Storage space, seating and ride comfort are also important considerations. E.g., I wouldn’t want to take 3+ hour road trips every other weekend visiting friends in a Corvette.[/quote]
I would not buy new. People turn in nice cars all the time with low miles and 20% under original sticker. You can always get in something better used than new.
This is especially true for Porsche’s. All the little add-ons they charge $10 Gs for add up to very little on resale.
I am finally at a stage in life where performance can be my key determinant on what car I get. That’s nice feeling, to bad you have to get old. [/quote]
I’ll definitely buy new, as employee discounts make it the same price as a 1 year old car. I’m thinking the 2015 Focus because some of the ecoboost options and the Fusion styling. I read that the average millionaire spends $21k on a car, so that puts my Corvette and Mustang temptations in perspective. Plus a rwd car is horrible in snow[/quote]
Well, if you have a line in unlike the average buyer, certainly take advantage. Somebody has to buy them new, or there won’t be used ones.
[quote]silverblood wrote:
[quote]Derek542 wrote:
[quote]silverblood wrote:
[quote]Derek542 wrote:
[quote]silverblood wrote:
[quote]Derek542 wrote:
Sorry Pat this is what I want. 
Carry on. [/quote]
well it’s built in SC
they just decided to expand the plant to build a plug-in hybrid X5 and the X7. the X7 is the one you want isn’t it?[/quote]
The wife has the X6, I will be getting the Z4 next year when this lease is up.[/quote]
which Z4?[/quote]
Dont know yet, dont want to shop cause I still have to wait a year.[/quote]
I know what you mean. I’m looking at a 72 Cutlass convertable and trying how to justify it this year before it’s snatched up. oh well, there’s always next yr and another car.[/quote]
350 or 455 engine?
[quote]browndisaster wrote:
Plus a rwd car is horrible in snow[/quote]
For taking off, yes. However for most drivers it is natural to oversteer in a skid, which is what is needed with RWD. With FWD most drivers are screwed in a skid because understeer is much less natural.
My wifes Charger handles just fine in the snow. I agree that vettes are horrid though, and I haven’t driven a new mustang but the old ones sucked in the snow also.
[quote]Testy1 wrote:
[quote]browndisaster wrote:
Plus a rwd car is horrible in snow[/quote]
For taking off, yes. However for most drivers it is natural to oversteer in a skid, which is what is needed with RWD. With FWD most drivers are screwed in a skid because understeer is much less natural.
My wifes Charger handles just fine in the snow. I agree that vettes are horrid though, and I haven’t driven a new mustang but the old ones sucked in the snow also.
[/quote]
Imo RWD takes a lot of getting used to in the snow, but eventually becomes superior to FWD due to it’s predictability. You KNOW when your car will lose traction and how to control that. In FWD, often once you lose it you’re gone.
RWD in the winter is all about slow controlled drifts.
As for a Vette in snow, when I had mine we got one really early snow and let me tell you it was amaaa… no it was absolutely terrible.
[quote]Rattler wrote:
[quote]Testy1 wrote:
[quote]browndisaster wrote:
Plus a rwd car is horrible in snow[/quote]
For taking off, yes. However for most drivers it is natural to oversteer in a skid, which is what is needed with RWD. With FWD most drivers are screwed in a skid because understeer is much less natural.
My wifes Charger handles just fine in the snow. I agree that vettes are horrid though, and I haven’t driven a new mustang but the old ones sucked in the snow also.
[/quote]
Imo RWD takes a lot of getting used to in the snow, but eventually becomes superior to FWD due to it’s predictability. You KNOW when your car will lose traction and how to control that. In FWD, often once you lose it you’re gone.
RWD in the winter is all about slow controlled drifts.
As for a Vette in snow, when I had mine we got one really early snow and let me tell you it was amaaa… no it was absolutely terrible. [/quote]
Quattro. Problem solved.
[quote]Rattler wrote:
Imo RWD takes a lot of getting used to in the snow, but eventually becomes superior to FWD due to it’s predictability. You KNOW when your car will lose traction and how to control that. In FWD, often once you lose it you’re gone.
RWD in the winter is all about slow controlled drifts.
As for a Vette in snow, when I had mine we got one really early snow and let me tell you it was amaaa… no it was absolutely terrible. [/quote]
Eh, I disagree.
A FWD car is no less predictable than a RWD car.
For 99% of the population, a FWD car is superior. In a RWD car, if you start to oversteer a person’s natural reaction to 1) immediately lift off the throttle and/or 2) hit the brakes is going to cause an increase in the amount of oversteer. The proper course of action is to stay on the gas/give it a bit more to transfer the weight of the car back over the rear wheels.
In a FWD car, if you start to understeer, simply lifting off the throttle or hitting the brakes will transfer the weight forward to the driven wheels, thereby allowing the driver to regain control. Nowadays, even RWD car are designed to understeer precisely for this reason.
[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:
[quote]Rattler wrote:
[quote]Testy1 wrote:
[quote]browndisaster wrote:
Plus a rwd car is horrible in snow[/quote]
For taking off, yes. However for most drivers it is natural to oversteer in a skid, which is what is needed with RWD. With FWD most drivers are screwed in a skid because understeer is much less natural.
My wifes Charger handles just fine in the snow. I agree that vettes are horrid though, and I haven’t driven a new mustang but the old ones sucked in the snow also.
[/quote]
Imo RWD takes a lot of getting used to in the snow, but eventually becomes superior to FWD due to it’s predictability. You KNOW when your car will lose traction and how to control that. In FWD, often once you lose it you’re gone.
RWD in the winter is all about slow controlled drifts.
As for a Vette in snow, when I had mine we got one really early snow and let me tell you it was amaaa… no it was absolutely terrible. [/quote]
Eh, I disagree.
A FWD car is no less predictable than a RWD car.
For 99% of the population, they are superior. In a RWD car, if you start to oversteer a person’s natural reaction to 1) immediately lift off the throttle and/or 2) hit the brakes is going to cause an increase in the amount of oversteer. The proper course of action is to stay on the gas/give it a bit more to transfer the weight of the car back over the rear wheels.
In a FWD car, if you start to understeer, simply lifting off the throttle or hitting the brakes will transfer the weight forward to the driven wheels, thereby allowing the driver to regain control. Nowadays, even RWD car are designed to understeer precisely for this reason.
[/quote]
I guess it is a matter of if you grew up driving in the snow in an era of RWD cars. In Michigan the biggest concern is whether you set your beer down or not.
Front wheel drive sucks. end of discussion.
[quote]Testy1 wrote:
[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:
[quote]Rattler wrote:
[quote]Testy1 wrote:
[quote]browndisaster wrote:
Plus a rwd car is horrible in snow[/quote]
For taking off, yes. However for most drivers it is natural to oversteer in a skid, which is what is needed with RWD. With FWD most drivers are screwed in a skid because understeer is much less natural.
My wifes Charger handles just fine in the snow. I agree that vettes are horrid though, and I haven’t driven a new mustang but the old ones sucked in the snow also.
[/quote]
Imo RWD takes a lot of getting used to in the snow, but eventually becomes superior to FWD due to it’s predictability. You KNOW when your car will lose traction and how to control that. In FWD, often once you lose it you’re gone.
RWD in the winter is all about slow controlled drifts.
As for a Vette in snow, when I had mine we got one really early snow and let me tell you it was amaaa… no it was absolutely terrible. [/quote]
Eh, I disagree.
A FWD car is no less predictable than a RWD car.
For 99% of the population, they are superior. In a RWD car, if you start to oversteer a person’s natural reaction to 1) immediately lift off the throttle and/or 2) hit the brakes is going to cause an increase in the amount of oversteer. The proper course of action is to stay on the gas/give it a bit more to transfer the weight of the car back over the rear wheels.
In a FWD car, if you start to understeer, simply lifting off the throttle or hitting the brakes will transfer the weight forward to the driven wheels, thereby allowing the driver to regain control. Nowadays, even RWD car are designed to understeer precisely for this reason.
[/quote]
I guess it is a matter of if you grew up driving in the snow in an era of RWD cars. In Michigan the biggest concern is whether you set your beer down or not.[/quote]
I have a couple friends in the Houghton area and I have no idea how they can drive down those winding, steep roads so nonchalantly. In Metro Detroit it seems like half the people have never driven in snow before.
[quote]browndisaster wrote:
In Metro Detroit it seems like half the people have never driven in snow before.[/quote]
I agree, but Metro Detroit also has a lot of immigrants who are probably unfamiliar with snow. I does seem to take a couple of snowfalls every year for people to remember how to drive.
I think a big problem is people not understanding that just because FWD and 4WD help you go faster it doesn’t make you stop faster.
[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:
[quote]Rattler wrote:
Imo RWD takes a lot of getting used to in the snow, but eventually becomes superior to FWD due to it’s predictability. You KNOW when your car will lose traction and how to control that. In FWD, often once you lose it you’re gone.
RWD in the winter is all about slow controlled drifts.
As for a Vette in snow, when I had mine we got one really early snow and let me tell you it was amaaa… no it was absolutely terrible. [/quote]
Eh, I disagree.
A FWD car is no less predictable than a RWD car.
For 99% of the population, a FWD car is superior. In a RWD car, if you start to oversteer a person’s natural reaction to 1) immediately lift off the throttle and/or 2) hit the brakes is going to cause an increase in the amount of oversteer. The proper course of action is to stay on the gas/give it a bit more to transfer the weight of the car back over the rear wheels.
In a FWD car, if you start to understeer, simply lifting off the throttle or hitting the brakes will transfer the weight forward to the driven wheels, thereby allowing the driver to regain control. Nowadays, even RWD car are designed to understeer precisely for this reason.
[quote]Rattler wrote:
You are right, I’m not doubting that. I just feel that anyone who has an interest in driving will notice RWD is actually a lot easier in the snow. Slow controlled drifts around corners makes travelling a breeze in the snow. When I had FWD I just found snow driving a lot more frustrating. [/quote]
My truck has traction control and I HATE that shit when I am driving down a snowy dirt road. I generally turn it off in the winter. If it is snowy enough to need it, it has to be off anyhow and you can’t drift around corners with it on.
[quote]Testy1 wrote:
[quote]browndisaster wrote:
Plus a rwd car is horrible in snow[/quote]
For taking off, yes. However for most drivers it is natural to oversteer in a skid, which is what is needed with RWD. With FWD most drivers are screwed in a skid because understeer is much less natural.
My wifes Charger handles just fine in the snow. I agree that vettes are horrid though, and I haven’t driven a new mustang but the old ones sucked in the snow also.
[/quote]
Move south boys. You don’t have to put up with that shit.
[quote]Aggv wrote:
Front wheel drive sucks. end of discussion. [/quote]
Applaud!!!
Real cars are rear or all wheel drive. FWD is so limiting in its potential. The Focus ST is the only front driver I would even consider, but I would like it tons more if it drove the rears.
[quote]Testy1 wrote:
[quote]browndisaster wrote:
In Metro Detroit it seems like half the people have never driven in snow before.[/quote]
I agree, but Metro Detroit also has a lot of immigrants who are probably unfamiliar with snow. I does seem to take a couple of snowfalls every year for people to remember how to drive.
I think a big problem is people not understanding that just because FWD and 4WD help you go faster it doesn’t make you stop faster.
[/quote]
Yep, and if you can’t stop, you shouldn’t go.
[quote]Testy1 wrote:
[quote]Rattler wrote:
You are right, I’m not doubting that. I just feel that anyone who has an interest in driving will notice RWD is actually a lot easier in the snow. Slow controlled drifts around corners makes travelling a breeze in the snow. When I had FWD I just found snow driving a lot more frustrating. [/quote]
My truck has traction control and I HATE that shit when I am driving down a snowy dirt road. I generally turn it off in the winter. If it is snowy enough to need it, it has to be off anyhow and you can’t drift around corners with it on.
[/quote]
I think it has a lot to do with how well the TC is done on the car. Some cars it’s a seamless feature, only popping up when needed and barely noticeable. Others are obnoxiously intrusive. From my experience, the Japanese to TC the worst. It interrupts when there is absolutely no need. The TC in my car is really well done. It just makes you think you can actually drive well. I only turn it off if I want to do a burnout or something, but at $300 bucks a tire, I don’t do many of those. Ahh, but when it comes time to replace them I am pulling up to the shop with the belts showing and melted rubber dripping down the side.
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]Testy1 wrote:
[quote]Rattler wrote:
You are right, I’m not doubting that. I just feel that anyone who has an interest in driving will notice RWD is actually a lot easier in the snow. Slow controlled drifts around corners makes travelling a breeze in the snow. When I had FWD I just found snow driving a lot more frustrating. [/quote]
My truck has traction control and I HATE that shit when I am driving down a snowy dirt road. I generally turn it off in the winter. If it is snowy enough to need it, it has to be off anyhow and you can’t drift around corners with it on.
[/quote]
I think it has a lot to do with how well the TC is done on the car. Some cars it’s a seamless feature, only popping up when needed and barely noticeable. Others are obnoxiously intrusive. From my experience, the Japanese to TC the worst. It interrupts when there is absolutely no need. The TC in my car is really well done. It just makes you think you can actually drive well. I only turn it off if I want to do a burnout or something, but at $300 bucks a tire, I don’t do many of those. Ahh, but when it comes time to replace them I am pulling up to the shop with the belts showing and melted rubber dripping down the side.[/quote]
The TC on my car is terrible, it doesn’t help at all. It just automatically applies heavy brakes until the traction is resumed. It’s actually gotten me closer to a crash than not having it on at all. In winter it’s always off whenever there’s snow, the car is just a lot more predictable that way.