I agree honestly.
As far as my knowledge goes, anything can be bad if used wrong or for wrong purposes.
And anything can be good when used smart.
Building muscle while on a low carb, or even a ketogenic, diet is of course possible, and there is some research showing this. Protein is the driver; not carbs or fat. However, the reality is, you will struggle to find many advocates promoting low carb for mass gains.
As other posters have said, it depends on your priorities, as well as your own personality. Some folks thrive on lower carbs; others donāt.
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Well, given time they should be. Ketosis is simply the absence of carbohydrates, regardless of their remaining macronutrient intake.
I like low carbs, i am an easy gainer so i find myself managing calories on low carbs better. The only draw back is the level of energy. After doing a carb refeed, i seem to do better at the gym. Might be in just in my head tho.
I can relate to that. Iāve done both approaches and for me itās a no-brainer. Iām a typical endomorph so I have above average genes when it comes to building muscle. However, the war against fat is continual so the ketogenic diet has become a longer term strategy these days.
Without going off on one, the danger of the cyclical ketogenic diet is that you never become fat-adapted. So you may enjoy your session after a ārefeedā but for the succeeding days your going through that adaptation phase again - complete with low energy and other symptoms. I used to do the same but would not go back to it following further research on the topic. I appreciate the Lyle McDonald Ultimate Diet crew will be sharpening their knives at the suggestion but thatās where the evidence is pointing these days.
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No, ketosis is the state of being in ketosis, no matter what oneās carb intake is.
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Youāre an intelligent guy. I expected much better than a circular argument.
Thereās nothing circular about it. Being in ketosis means oneās metabolism is employing ketone bodies rather than glucose as the predominant fuel source, full stop. It is assessed via measuring the amount of ketone bodies in urine or serum. It doesnāt matter if the person is eating 1 g of carbs per day or 1000; if they have elevated levels of ketone bodies theyāre in ketosis, and if they donāt, theyāre not.
Now, to enter ketosis, individuals with non-deranged metabolisms have to significantly decrease their carb intake. How low it needs to be will vary from one individual to another, and as a function of the other components of their diet (more shortly). This is why one cannot simply equate the terms ālow carbsā and āketosis.ā Further, even if one drops carbs as low as is practically possible (10-20 g/d for people eating real food), it still doesnāt guarantee they will enter ketosis, as some individuals will continue to convert protein into glucose (via the gluconeogenesis pathway) at a rate high enough to forestall ketosis. For such individuals, it is necessary to restrict both carbs and protein to enter ketosis. So even the term ācarbs as low as possibleā canāt be used as a synonym for ketosis.
So like I said: Ketosis is the state of being in ketosis.
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Barring metabolic disorders and other abnormalities, that is patently false. Absence of carbohydrates will eventually result in ketosis, even on a very high protein intake (assuming overall energy intake is still low - n =1 but Iāve observed this very thing in myself). As for this āketosis is ketosisā thing, well Iām not going there.
Yes. Not so sure if its the best approach tho
OK, so now youāre resetting, post hoc, the parameters of the discussion in an attempt to make yourself correct. Not cool, but as itās not going to work anyway, I wonāt object.
Youāre simply incorrect. Check out the info at the following link. Admittedly, itās not an ideal source (Iām not inclined to take the time go to the primary scientific literature simply to prove someone wrong when itās so patently obvious they are); however, Iām sure youāll agree itās a better source than the personal anecdote (ān=1ā) youāre citing:
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Iām gonna have to agree with @EyeDentist on this oneā¦nearly everything Iāve read on ketosis explicitly states that if protein intake is too high (differs from person to person, but 20% is a common figure), GNG prevents proper ketosis and can even be catabolic. Keto is pretty restrictive, thereās a reason itās not just called low carb.
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Dude, I started the discussion talking about the general populace. However, when you start citing cases when that doesnāt apply (to paraphrase what you said, some folks wonāt reach ketosis despite eating less than 1g CHO) then I indeed qualified what I said. Perfectly reasonable, I suggest.
Regarding your link, even āwell-formulatedā ketogenic diets result in an element of GNG. This whole process is overplayed (ever wondered why PSMF works so well in the obese). Efficient ketosis can be maintained on higher protein intakes, without turning to chocolate cake!
What do you consider higher protein, as a percentage?
No, because I know what the āFā stands for.
Iām not sure why you felt the need to tell me this, but OK.
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Doesnāt pan out in terms of percentage or ratio. In terms of available evidence, thinking in grams is better. 0.8 to 1g per lbs of LBM is a good starter. However, lower kcals can allow greater intake with similar levels of ketosis.
Fair enough EyeDentist. Youāre still on my Christmas card list!!
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Thatās what I thinking. If you take me, at 220lbs and ~17%(ish). 183lbs LBM X 4 = 732/2500cals (looking for fat loss) is 29%. Iāve found, while in Keto, protein between 25-30% is the sweet spot for me. Too much more and I donāt stay in.
As Iāve posted elsewhere, it depends on a few factors including how fat-adapted you are. For example, while only anecdotal (letās face it, a lot of this stuff is), Luis Villasenor, of Ketogains, has posted blood ketone readings of 0.4mml after a 16 hour fast and workout. My highest reading to date is 1.1mml, and thatās on PSMF with 5-10g fat. So much for gluconeogenesis.