Carbs in the Evening?

[dre1986]

[quote]ds1973 wrote:

[quote]dre1986 wrote:
IMO depends entirely on when you train - if you train at say 6pm, finish at 7, go home and have dinner with loads of clean carbs then no - you’ll just be replacing lost muscle glycogen. If however, you train earlier on in the day, lets say 2pm, and have a load of carbs afterwards and then continue to consume carbs through the night once all your muscle glycogen’s been replaced any additional carbs will start to go towards liver glycogen and we all know what happens then! [/quote]

Google “how we get fat” and “Lyle Mcdonald”. How we get fat is a very interesting article. No need to fear carbs. I don’t think most of us here are eating enough of them to worry.

1. Carbs are rarely converted to fat and stored as such
2. When you eat more carbs you burn more carbs and less fat; eat less carbs and you burn less carbs and more fat
3. Protein is basically never going to be converted to fat and stored as such
4. When you eat more protein, you burn more protein (and by extension, less carbs and less fat); eat less protein and you burn less protein (and by extension, more carbs and more fat)
5. Ingested dietary fat is primarily stored, eating more of it doesnâ??t impact on fat oxidation to a significant degree

Carbohydrates are rarely converted to fat (a process called de novo lipogenesis) under normal dietary conditions. There are exceptions when this occurs. One is with massive chronic overfeeding of carbs. Iâ??m talking 700-900 grams of carbs per day for multiple days. Under those conditions, carbs max out glycogen stores, are in excess of total daily energy requirements and you see the conversion of carbohydrate to fat for storage. But this is not a normal dietary situation for most people.

→ Excess dietary fat is directly stored as fat
→ Excess dietary carbs increases carb oxidation, impairing fat oxidation; more of your daily fat intake is stored as fat
→ Excess dietary protein increases protein oxidation, impairing fat oxidation; more of your daily fat intake is stored as fat

All three situations make you fat, just through different mechanisms. Fat is directly stored and carbs and protein cause you to store the fat youâ??re eating by decreasing fat oxidation.

[/quote]

wow you just compeltely blew my mind! i’ll have to read that article for sure! I was always led to beleive that any excess carbs that you consumed over what is used to replenish muscle glycogen will automatically be go towards liver glycogen and be stored as addipose tissue! I’ll come back to this once i’ve read this article, but my whole day has just been turned upside down!

[dre1986]

Right, read the article. Interesting stuff. Cant say i’ll be completely changing the way i look at fat loss or the way i go about it but it was certainly educational. At the end of the day it looks like anything you eat in is going to take away from fat oxidation, just in different ways, with fat being the worst one as its the only macro that can be directly stored. What the article really reinforces is it all comes down to calories in vs calories out. Was definately worth the read though.

[Btris]

[quote]facko wrote:

[quote]Btris wrote:

[quote]ds1973 wrote:
Facko, Yeah. It was a real eye opener to me when I first read that article. Before then, this site had me running scared from carbs. Now my energy is up, I’m losing fat and eating pretty much any carb source I want after I work out. Yes, Gasp! even ice-cream. Tonight, after training, I’ll be eating those two big chocolate chip cookies I picked up at our lunch seminar.

Really, as long as your focusing on getting 1.1 to 1.5 grams of protein per lb wt and overall calories, it doesn’t much matter what else you eat. That combined with IF is very freeing. Makes me laugh about the OCD posts around here.[/quote]

You said “That combined with IF is very freeing”…what is IF?

Also thanks for the Lyle thread it did give me some things to think about. I may try your approach and see how it goes. [/quote]

IF is intermittent fasting. There are a few different approaches to this…I personally follow the LeanGains approach. It is an eating style in which you eat on a 16/8 schedule…in other words…16 hours without food and an 8 hour feeding window…[/quote]

Thanks after reading some of Lyle’s articles I figured out what IF stood for. Thanks again.

Also I have tried doing fasting in the morning hours followed by large meal in the evening. I personally struggle with IF because of two things. First I seem to go hypoglycemic with it. Second being I tend to get wild cravings and gorge (usually on junk) when I follow this stradegy. Maybe that shows some of my weakness, but I have always been a beliver in a diet is only as good as one can follow it. Find what you can stick with and start there.

[facko]

[quote]Btris wrote:

[quote]facko wrote:

[quote]Btris wrote:

[quote]ds1973 wrote:
Facko, Yeah. It was a real eye opener to me when I first read that article. Before then, this site had me running scared from carbs. Now my energy is up, I’m losing fat and eating pretty much any carb source I want after I work out. Yes, Gasp! even ice-cream. Tonight, after training, I’ll be eating those two big chocolate chip cookies I picked up at our lunch seminar.

Really, as long as your focusing on getting 1.1 to 1.5 grams of protein per lb wt and overall calories, it doesn’t much matter what else you eat. That combined with IF is very freeing. Makes me laugh about the OCD posts around here.[/quote]

You said “That combined with IF is very freeing”…what is IF?

Also thanks for the Lyle thread it did give me some things to think about. I may try your approach and see how it goes. [/quote]

IF is intermittent fasting. There are a few different approaches to this…I personally follow the LeanGains approach. It is an eating style in which you eat on a 16/8 schedule…in other words…16 hours without food and an 8 hour feeding window…[/quote]

Thanks after reading some of Lyle’s articles I figured out what IF stood for. Thanks again.

Also I have tried doing fasting in the morning hours followed by large meal in the evening. I personally struggle with IF because of two things. First I seem to go hypoglycemic with it. Second being I tend to get wild cravings and gorge (usually on junk) when I follow this stradegy. Maybe that shows some of my weakness, but I have always been a beliver in a diet is only as good as one can follow it. Find what you can stick with and start there.[/quote]

It’s not a weakness man…it’s human. It is one of the most powerful senses and pleasures we have dude…taste. That being said…IF is not for everyone, and fasting in general I guess is just not for everyone. At the end of the day, it’s more important that calories and macros are basically right for your body/activity level (depending on your goals). How you go about eating those calories and macros is preference. I believe there are positives and negatives to any schedule of eating, be it IF, 3 nice size meals, or more split up 6 smaller meals etc.

[ds1973]

[quote]facko wrote:

[quote]ds1973 wrote:
Facko, Yeah. It was a real eye opener to me when I first read that article. Before then, this site had me running scared from carbs. Now my energy is up, I’m losing fat and eating pretty much any carb source I want after I work out. Yes, Gasp! even ice-cream. Tonight, after training, I’ll be eating those two big chocolate chip cookies I picked up at our lunch seminar.

Really, as long as your focusing on getting 1.1 to 1.5 grams of protein per lb wt and overall calories, it doesn’t much matter what else you eat. That combined with IF is very freeing. Makes me laugh about the OCD posts around here.[/quote]

Do you keep dietary fat lower on days that you are eating a lot of carbs? I’m always curious if it’s cool for me to eat like a peanut butter sandwich on high carb days…because I know I can rack up an easy 20-30gs of fat just in the peanut butter alone…[/quote]

I don’t know what “low” is. Just looking at my numbers for the last three high and last three low days they come out to be:

--------- Low High
Carbs 30% 38%
Protein 42% 38%
Fat 28% 25%
Cals 1955 2761

In grams of each macro its:
---------Low High
Carbs----146 g 262 g
Protein 203 g 258 g
Fat 62 g 76 g
Cals 1955 2761

So, it’s really more carb cycling than anything. My fats are actually higher on high days, but a lower percentage of the total, but not by much.

Typical low day is:

Lunch: 10 oz top round, 7-8 oz baked potato w/ .25 tbsp butter, 60g fish oil, fruit (banana or pineapple)
Dinner: 10 oz chicken, salad w vinegar & 4 olives, pickles, carrots/sugar snap peas. 1 square (10g) of 72% dark chocolate.

Typical high day (this is from yesterday):

Lunch: 10 oz chicken, 7-8 oz baked potato w/ .25 tbsp butter, 60g fish oil, large banana

Pre workout: 3 scoops Metabolic Drive (workout is after work so 5:30 - 6:30)

Workout - Squats & Deadlifts

Dinner: 10 oz chicken, 7-8 oz baked potato w/ .25 tbsp butter, 2 chocolate chip cookies from lunch seminar (2.5 oz), small white lightning perry’s icecream cone (~1.5 cups).

Yeah, I only eat two meals and I had cookies after the chicken / potato dinner then I went and picked up my son from soccer and took him to the local ice-cream stand. I was lighter this morning than I was yesterday morning. I also substitute in pork tenderloin and turkey (roasted on Sunday) for the meats. I used to make salmon once a week too, but haven’t done that since June.

My macros kind of fall into line if I follow these guidelines:

1. Keep protein high - at least 1.2 g/lb BW
2. Stay within my calorie limits for the day (Low: ~1900, High: ~ 2700)

On weekdays, I work at my desk a lot. I make sure I get at least 30 minutes of fasted, brisk walking in the morning. This week I started dosing with Yohimbe extract (9 mg Yohimbe Alkaloids at 8 AM, 9 AM, 10 AM and I have noticed a difference from that too.

If, for some reason, I go out to lunch during the day or on one of my off weekend days, I’ll supplement with whey or casein. I make an awesome protein frappuccino every sat/sun in the blender with 1 scoop casein, 1.5 cups double strength coffee, 2 cups of ice and chocolate syrup.

I’ve been following IF for about 6 months now, however honestly the results are coming faster since I’ve upped my carbs and lowered my fat just recently. I did a lot of experimenting and at first I was tracking everything, worried if I went over 100 g of carbs on “off” days. I played with low / high cal limits. I think going too low on some low days (~1600 cals) actually hurt my progress.

Then I read that lyle article and the one on Martins site about carbs at night and have since taken the approach of not worrying so much about fat and carbs and things are going great these past 2-3 weeks. I’m starting to see abs and am just psyched in general that I’m able to do this so easily compared to worrying about 6 meals a day, always feeling hungry and obsessing about macros.

I love being able to just enjoy eating an ice-cream cone with my son without worrying if there are too many carbs. As long as I keep eating lots of lean meats, get my fish oil and have whey/casein on hand for supplementing my protein intake, I’m fine.

[facko]

[quote]ds1973 wrote:

[quote]facko wrote:

[quote]ds1973 wrote:
Facko, Yeah. It was a real eye opener to me when I first read that article. Before then, this site had me running scared from carbs. Now my energy is up, I’m losing fat and eating pretty much any carb source I want after I work out. Yes, Gasp! even ice-cream. Tonight, after training, I’ll be eating those two big chocolate chip cookies I picked up at our lunch seminar.

Really, as long as your focusing on getting 1.1 to 1.5 grams of protein per lb wt and overall calories, it doesn’t much matter what else you eat. That combined with IF is very freeing. Makes me laugh about the OCD posts around here.[/quote]

Do you keep dietary fat lower on days that you are eating a lot of carbs? I’m always curious if it’s cool for me to eat like a peanut butter sandwich on high carb days…because I know I can rack up an easy 20-30gs of fat just in the peanut butter alone…[/quote]

I don’t know what “low” is. Just looking at my numbers for the last three high and last three low days they come out to be:

--------- Low High
Carbs 30% 38%
Protein 42% 38%
Fat 28% 25%
Cals 1955 2761

In grams of each macro its:
---------Low High
Carbs----146 g 262 g
Protein 203 g 258 g
Fat 62 g 76 g
Cals 1955 2761

So, it’s really more carb cycling than anything. My fats are actually higher on high days, but a lower percentage of the total, but not by much.

Typical low day is:

Lunch: 10 oz top round, 7-8 oz baked potato w/ .25 tbsp butter, 60g fish oil, fruit (banana or pineapple)
Dinner: 10 oz chicken, salad w vinegar & 4 olives, pickles, carrots/sugar snap peas. 1 square (10g) of 72% dark chocolate.

Typical high day (this is from yesterday):

Lunch: 10 oz chicken, 7-8 oz baked potato w/ .25 tbsp butter, 60g fish oil, large banana

Pre workout: 3 scoops Metabolic Drive (workout is after work so 5:30 - 6:30)

Workout - Squats & Deadlifts

Dinner: 10 oz chicken, 7-8 oz baked potato w/ .25 tbsp butter, 2 chocolate chip cookies from lunch seminar (2.5 oz), small white lightning perry’s icecream cone (~1.5 cups).

Yeah, I only eat two meals and I had cookies after the chicken / potato dinner then I went and picked up my son from soccer and took him to the local ice-cream stand. I was lighter this morning than I was yesterday morning. I also substitute in pork tenderloin and turkey (roasted on Sunday) for the meats. I used to make salmon once a week too, but haven’t done that since June.

My macros kind of fall into line if I follow these guidelines:

1. Keep protein high - at least 1.2 g/lb BW
2. Stay within my calorie limits for the day (Low: ~1900, High: ~ 2700)

On weekdays, I work at my desk a lot. I make sure I get at least 30 minutes of fasted, brisk walking in the morning. This week I started dosing with Yohimbe extract (9 mg Yohimbe Alkaloids at 8 AM, 9 AM, 10 AM and I have noticed a difference from that too.

If, for some reason, I go out to lunch during the day or on one of my off weekend days, I’ll supplement with whey or casein. I make an awesome protein frappuccino every sat/sun in the blender with 1 scoop casein, 1.5 cups double strength coffee, 2 cups of ice and chocolate syrup.

I’ve been following IF for about 6 months now, however honestly the results are coming faster since I’ve upped my carbs and lowered my fat just recently. I did a lot of experimenting and at first I was tracking everything, worried if I went over 100 g of carbs on “off” days. I played with low / high cal limits. I think going too low on some low days (~1600 cals) actually hurt my progress.

Then I read that lyle article and the one on Martins site about carbs at night and have since taken the approach of not worrying so much about fat and carbs and things are going great these past 2-3 weeks. I’m starting to see abs and am just psyched in general that I’m able to do this so easily compared to worrying about 6 meals a day, always feeling hungry and obsessing about macros.

I love being able to just enjoy eating an ice-cream cone with my son without worrying if there are too many carbs. As long as I keep eating lots of lean meats, get my fish oil and have whey/casein on hand for supplementing my protein intake, I’m fine. [/quote]

The only thing I can say to you out of this is…you may be underestimating your cals man. 20oz of chicken breast is only about 550…I calculated what you put for high days and it just doesn’t seem near 2700kcal…

Training day for me:
12g BCAA Preworkout around 5:30pm
Train - 5:45-6:45pm
PWO meal 1 - 2 cups dry measure oats, 1 egg, 6 egg whites, Broccoli, Salad, 6oz. plain Greek yogurt with berries and scoop of whey powder, 1 cup of capn crunch.
PWO meal 2 - Egg whites, wheat pancakes, hash browns.
Last “meal” - Typically 1/2 cup cottage cheese with cinnamon and some berries.

I’m only tying to get 2400kcal on training days…if you do the math, I typically undershoot this…even with what I’ve shown above.

[ds1973]

[quote]facko wrote:

The only thing I can say to you out of this is…you may be underestimating your cals man. 20oz of chicken breast is only about 550…I calculated what you put for high days and it just doesn’t seem near 2700kcal…

[/quote]

Hmm. Maybe you mean overestimating? Not sure, that’s a cooked weight. The cal count site I use has roasted chicken breasts at about 468 kcals for 10 oz (roasted). 10 oz of raw chicken is listed as 323 kcals.

The key here is that I’m consistent anyway.

My maint cals are about 2300 when figured with various equations. I definintely need less on rest days and more on training days.

[facko]

[quote]ds1973 wrote:

[quote]facko wrote:

The only thing I can say to you out of this is…you may be underestimating your cals man. 20oz of chicken breast is only about 550…I calculated what you put for high days and it just doesn’t seem near 2700kcal…

[/quote]

Hmm. Maybe you mean overestimating? Not sure, that’s a cooked weight. The cal count site I use has roasted chicken breasts at about 468 kcals for 10 oz (roasted). 10 oz of raw chicken is listed as 323 kcals.

The key here is that I’m consistent anyway.

My maint cals are about 2300 when figured with various equations. I definintely need less on rest days and more on training days.[/quote]

My bad…I did mean overestimating. For me tonight, I ate a whole 12" cheese pizza with salad. Greek yogurt, half cookie, an apple and some berries. And I’ll be eating 1 egg, 6 egg whites, 2 cups of oats, a scoop of whey and a banana. I should be at less than 2400kcal…which is my goal.